Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

[Giovanni Bajo]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

that's just not true. lots of people have voiced concerns over using
closed-sourced stuff originally designed for enterprise-level Java
users for an application domain where Python has several widely used
agile alternatives to chose from.

Frankly, I don't give a damn about the language the application is coded in, as
long as it is OUR application and not an application of a private company which
we do not own.

Even though you are totally right.
--
Giovanni Bajo

[Giovanni Bajo]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

lbolognini@gmai l.com wrote:

Giovanni Bajo wrote:
>

>Does this smell "Bitkeeper fiasco" to anyone else than me?

>
I can't understand why people waste time arguing this stuff.
>
Use whatever tool is best at it's job... if it's not written in Python
it doesn't mean that Python is not good for the task, only that there
hasn't been any Python programmer that applied himself to the problem
hard enough.

This is not against using a tool not written in Java. This is against using a
tool which is not FLOSS.
--
Giovanni Bajo

[Giovanni Bajo]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

>... using a non open source tracker (called JIRA - never heard
>before of course) for Python itself.

>
Other projects do use it; see
<http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheJirafor a partial list, and a
link to the Apache Software Foundation's issue trackers.

which, in my humble opinion, is just a list of other examples of projects which
are misguided. People seem to have no idea when a company is sold, when a CEO
is changed, or something like that. Hhistory's repeating, but hackers are not
learning.

>Does this smell "Bitkeeper fiasco" to anyone else than me?

>
The committee did expect this recommendation to be controversial. :)

I guess :)

In fact, I have a deepest hope that this recommendation was just a fake just to
get people setup a roundup installation...
--
Giovanni Bajo

[Giovanni Bajo]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Martin v. Löwis wrote:

It's significantly different from the Bitkeeper fiasco in two
important
ways:
1. Bitkeeper is a source revisioning system, so it is similar to CVS
and Subversion. This project here is "just" the bug tracker, which
is of lesser importance. If we move to a different one some day, a
certain amount of data lossage might be acceptable (e.g. we now
likely lose the "history" of status changes and file attachments on
each report). An export of all data is high on the requirements
list, as Fredrik points out.

I understand your point. OTOH, exactly because the tracker system is a far
lesser importance, it's amazing there is *ever* a need to evaluate non-FLOSS
solutions, when there are so many good free solutions around. Instead of
recommending a closed source solution, you could have recommended Roundup *and*
explained there is a need for funding and/or volunteers before the migration
can happen.

You might also be understimating how negative could be the reaction from the
open-source community to such a move.
--
Giovanni Bajo

[Nick Craig-Wood]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

lbolognini@gmai l.com <lbolognini@gma il.comwrote:

And i dunno what the case against Trac is (it looks a fine tool for my
small projects) but probably it's not good enough for python.org

Trac is really good in my experience.

http://trac.edgewall.org/

Python.org has already moved to svn so trac is surely the next part of
the equation. Having an integrated Bugtracker / Wiki / Svn repository
browser is very helpful.

We use it for all our commercial work.

It is also in use by MythTV which judging by the volume of its mailing
lists is about or more active a project than python.

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/

A nice extra is that it is written in python.

--
Nick Craig-Wood <nick@craig-wood.com-- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick

[Richard Jones]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:

lbolognini@gmai l.com <lbolognini@gma il.comwrote:

> And i dunno what the case against Trac is (it looks a fine tool for my
> small projects) but probably it's not good enough for python.org

>
Trac is really good in my experience.

Trac was considered.

A nice extra is that it is written in python.

So are Roundup and Launchpad, two of the other three trackers considered.


Richard

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

On 10/4/06, Richard Jones <richardjones@o ptushome.com.au wrote:

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:

lbolognini@gmai l.com <lbolognini@gma il.comwrote:

And i dunno what the case against Trac is (it looks a fine tool for my
small projects) but probably it's not good enough for python.org

Trac is really good in my experience.

>
Trac was considered.
>
>

A nice extra is that it is written in python.

>
So are Roundup and Launchpad, two of the other three trackers considered.
>

So, just out of curiosity, what were the pros/cons of Launchpad,
specially compared to Roundup?


R.

>
Richard
>
--

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>

--
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Bioinformatics Unit
Spanish National Cancer Centre (CNIO)

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

[Steve Holden]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Giovanni Bajo wrote:

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>
>

>>>... using a non open source tracker (called JIRA - never heard
>>>before of course) for Python itself.

>>
>>Other projects do use it; see
>><http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheJirafor a partial list, and a
>>link to the Apache Software Foundation's issue trackers.

>
>
which, in my humble opinion, is just a list of other examples of projects which
are misguided. People seem to have no idea when a company is sold, when a CEO
is changed, or something like that. Hhistory's repeating, but hackers are not
learning.
>
>

>>>Does this smell "Bitkeeper fiasco" to anyone else than me?

>>
>>The committee did expect this recommendation to be controversial. :)

>
>
I guess :)
>
In fact, I have a deepest hope that this recommendation was just a fake just to
get people setup a roundup installation...

But sadly people are much happier complaining on c.l.py than exerting
themselves to support the community with an open source issue tracker.
Hello, Jira ....

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Paul Boddie]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Richard Jones wrote:

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:

Trac is really good in my experience.

>
Trac was considered.
>

A nice extra is that it is written in python.

>
So are Roundup and Launchpad, two of the other three trackers considered.

It should be noted that most skepticism (that I'm aware of) about
Launchpad is typically rooted in that service's closed source nature.
People voicing such skepticism don't seem to cut it any slack just
because it is apparently written in Python.

Paul

[Fredrik Lundh]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Steve Holden wrote:

But sadly people are much happier complaining on c.l.py than exerting
themselves to support the community with an open source issue tracker.

you're not on the infrastructure list, I hear. python.org could still need a
few more roundup volunteers, but it's not like nobody's prepared to con-
tribute manhours. don't underestimate the community.

</F>

[A.M. Kuchling]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:37:47 GMT,
Giovanni Bajo <noway@sorry.co mwrote:

I am seriously concerned
that the PSF infrastructure committee EVER considered non open-source
applications for this. In fact, I thought that was an implicit requirement in
the selection.

Being open source wasn't a requirement; minimal requirements were
specified in the initial message requesting trackers
(http://wiki.python.org/moin/OriginalCallForTrackers).

--amk

[Giovanni Bajo]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

>I am seriously concerned
>that the PSF infrastructure committee EVER considered non open-source
>applications for this. In fact, I thought that was an implicit
>requirement in the selection.

>
Being open source wasn't a requirement;

which is, indeed, shocking and amazing.

minimal requirements were
specified in the initial message requesting trackers
(http://wiki.python.org/moin/OriginalCallForTrackers).

Where does it mention that only trackers which have at least an existing
installation and a group of people for maintenance will be considered? It
could easily be assumed that PSF had already enough bandwidth, server,
manpower to handle any bugtracker installation.

In fact, are you absolutely positive that you need so much effort to
maintain an existing bugtracker installation? I know for sure that GCC's
Bugzilla installation is pretty much on its own; Daniel Berlin does some
maintainance every once in a while (upgrading when new versions are out,
applying or writing some patches for most requested features in the
community, or sutff like that), but it's surely not his job, not even
part-time.
--
Giovanni Bajo

[Paul Boddie]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Giovanni Bajo wrote:

>
In fact, are you absolutely positive that you need so much effort to
maintain an existing bugtracker installation?

I wonder what kinds of insights were sought from other open source
projects. It's not as if there aren't any big open source projects
having approachable community members willing to share their thoughts
on running open source (or any other kind of) issue tracking software.
KDE and GNOME don't use SourceForge and yet manage their own
infrastructure - has anyone asked them how they do it?

Paul

[Steve Holden]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:
>
>

>>But sadly people are much happier complaining on c.l.py than exerting
>>themselves to support the community with an open source issue tracker.

>
>
you're not on the infrastructure list, I hear. python.org could still need a
few more roundup volunteers, but it's not like nobody's prepared to con-
tribute manhours. don't underestimate the community.
>

No, I'm not on the infrastructure list, but I know that capable people
*are*: and you know I am quite capable of donating my time to the cause,
when I have it to spare (and sometimes even when I don't).

Perhaps what I *should* have written was "Sadly *many* people spend too
much time bitching and moaning about those that roll their sleeves up,
and not enough rolling their own sleeves up and pitching in".

Sniping from the sidelines is far easier than hard work towards a goal.

Kindly note that none of the above remarks apply to you.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone]

Re: Python to use a non open source bug tracker?

Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.e duwrote:

As I understood B.C.'s announcement, that was one of the judging criteria,
and the plan is for PSF to get a daily backup dump of the data.

This had nothing to do with the choice of not using Trac or Launchpad.

Quoting Brett Cannon from the original mail:
""
As for Trac and Launchpad, both had fundamental issues that led to them
not being chosen in the end. Most of the considerations had to do with
customization or UI problems.
""

So clearly the 'get a daily backup of the data' is not the reason.
Backing up a sqlite database is pretty easy.

--
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now Running MacOSX 10.4
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com
New Pet: http://www.stiq.it