Escapeism

[Kay Schluehr]

Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
question:

You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.

How do you echo them using print?

print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
....

It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.

First of all it has be remarked that it is impossible to a certain
extent. That's because e.g. c = '\a' and c = '\7' do represent the same
string but this ambiguity doesn't occur for many numbers. But lets
weaken the requirement and fix a canonical representation in case of
ambiguity. I'm still getting stuck here.

[Peter Otten]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
question:
>
You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>
How do you echo them using print?
>
print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
...
>
It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.
>
First of all it has be remarked that it is impossible to a certain
extent. That's because e.g. c = '\a' and c = '\7' do represent the same
string but this ambiguity doesn't occur for many numbers. But lets
weaken the requirement and fix a canonical representation in case of
ambiguity. I'm still getting stuck here.

I don't understand the question. Wouldn't the canonical representation be
repr(c) or repr(c)[1:-1]?

Peter

[Sybren Stuvel]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:

Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
question:
>
You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>
How do you echo them using print?
>
print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
...
>
It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.

try "print repr(c)".

Sybren
--
Sybren Stüvel
Stüvel IT - http://www.stuvel.eu/

[Kay Schluehr]

Re: Escapeism

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:

Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
question:

You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.

How do you echo them using print?

print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
...

It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.

>
try "print repr(c)".

This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.

Kay

[Duncan Booth]

Re: Escapeism

"Kay Schluehr" <kay.schluehr@g mx.netwrote:

>try "print repr(c)".

>
This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics.

But you yourself noted earlier that '\a' and '\x07' are the same string
and said:

But lets weaken the requirement and fix a canonical representation in
case of ambiguity.

That's exactly what repr(c) does, it uses a canonical representation
with '\t', '\r', '\n', '\\', (and when it has to "\'", '\"') using the
short escape form (because they are so commonly used), and the all the
other (more obscure) escape sequences using the hexadecimal form.

BTW, c.encode('strin g_escape') is another way to convert a string to almost
the same escaped form (except for a minor difference in the treatment of
quote characters).

But unfortunately "rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and
not to string objects ( such as c ).

Oh dear, the fact that you could even consider writing that sentence seems
to show a fundamental misunderstandin g of what a raw string literal means.

[Steve Holden]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
>

>>Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:
>>

>>>Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
>>>Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
>>>question:
>>>
>>>You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>>>
>>>How do you echo them using print?
>>>
>>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
>>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
>>>...
>>>
>>>It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.

>>
>>try "print repr(c)".

>
>
This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.
>

No, you've overlooked the fact that if you print the string containing
the two characters "backslash" and "lower case a" then it will print
exactly those two characters. See:

In [30]: c = "\\a"

In [31]: len(c)
Out[31]: 2

In [32]: print c
\a

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Kay Schluehr]

Re: Escapeism

Steve Holden wrote:

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

>Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:
>
>>Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
>>Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
>>question:
>>
>>You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>>
>>How do you echo them using print?
>>
>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
>>...
>>
>>It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.
>
>try "print repr(c)".

This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.

No, you've overlooked the fact that if you print the string containing
the two characters "backslash" and "lower case a" then it will print
exactly those two characters. See:
>
In [30]: c = "\\a"
>
In [31]: len(c)
Out[31]: 2
>
In [32]: print c
\a

I'm interested in the transition between two literals from which one is
a string literal containing \ as a "meta character" s.t. '\a' has
actually length 1 and is beep when printed to stdout and its "raw" form
without a meta character interpretation of \ that leads to the result
you described. Using the string prefix r to '\a' indicates the raw form
to the compiler. But there seems to be no runtime counterpart. I've
suggested a naive implementation such as

def rawform(c):
return {'\a': r'\a'}[c]

Here the function returns for the single input character '\a' the two
character raw form by means of escaping \ ( and raises a KeyError
exception otherwise ).

>>c = '\a'
>>print rawform(c)

\a

This has the same effect as writing:

>>c = r'\a'
>>print c

\a

But there is some ambiguity due to the the fact that applying '\7' to
rawform() yields r'\a' and not r'\7'. So one needs more specification
for disambiguation using e.g. an extra parameter.

[Leonhard Vogt]

Re: Escapeism

But there is some ambiguity due to the the fact that applying '\7' to

rawform() yields r'\a' and not r'\7'. So one needs more specification
for disambiguation using e.g. an extra parameter.
>

>>'\a'=='\7'

True

The two are actually the same thing, so how could a function decide
whether to return '\\a' or '\\7'.

It's like asking the following:

>>c = 04
>>print rawform(c)

04

>>c = 4
>>print rawform(c)

4

which is obviously not possible, neither of any use imho.

Leonhard

[Steve Holden]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:
>

>>Kay Schluehr wrote:
>>

>>>Sybren Stuvel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
>>>>>Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
>>>>>question :
>>>>>
>>>>>You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you echo them using print?
>>>>>
>>>>>print_st r( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
>>>>>print_st r( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
>>>>>...
>>>>>
>>>>>It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.
>>>>
>>>>try "print repr(c)".
>>>
>>>
>>>This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
>>>does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
>>>escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
>>>'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
>>>"rawrificati on" applies only to string literals and not to string
>>>objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
>>>{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
>>>I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
>>>me.
>>>

>>
>>No, you've overlooked the fact that if you print the string containing
>>the two characters "backslash" and "lower case a" then it will print
>>exactly those two characters. See:
>>
>>In [30]: c = "\\a"
>>
>>In [31]: len(c)
>>Out[31]: 2
>>
>>In [32]: print c
>>\a

>
>
I'm interested in the transition between two literals from which one is
a string literal containing \ as a "meta character" s.t. '\a' has
actually length 1 and is beep when printed to stdout and its "raw" form
without a meta character interpretation of \ that leads to the result
you described. Using the string prefix r to '\a' indicates the raw form
to the compiler. But there seems to be no runtime counterpart. I've
suggested a naive implementation such as
>
def rawform(c):
return {'\a': r'\a'}[c]
>
Here the function returns for the single input character '\a' the two
character raw form by means of escaping \ ( and raises a KeyError
exception otherwise ).
>
>

>>>>c = '\a'
>>>>print rawform(c)

>
\a
>
This has the same effect as writing:
>

>>>>c = r'\a'
>>>>print c

>
\a
>
But there is some ambiguity due to the the fact that applying '\7' to
rawform() yields r'\a' and not r'\7'. So one needs more specification
for disambiguation using e.g. an extra parameter.
>

In [33]: "\7" == "\a"
Out[33]: True

Sorry. It can't possibly know which of two alternative representation
were used to represent a particular character in a literal.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Frederic Rentsch]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
>

>Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:
>>

>>Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
>>Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
>>question:
>>>
>>You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>>>
>>How do you echo them using print?
>>>
>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
>>print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
>>...
>>>
>>It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.
>>>

>try "print repr(c)".
>>

>
This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.
>
Kay
>
>

Kay,

This is perhaps yet another case for SE? I don't really know, because I
don't quite get what you're after. See for yourself:

>>import SE
>>Printabiliz er = SE.SE ( '''

(1)=\\1 # All 256 octets can be written as parenthesized ascii
(2)=\\2
"\a=\\a" # (7)=\\a"
"\n=\\n" # or (10)=\\n or (10)=LF or whatever
"\r=\\r" # (13)=CR
"\f=\\f"
"\v=\\v"
# Add whatever other ones you like
# and translate them to anything you like.
''')

>>print Printabilizer ('abd\aefg\r\nh ijk\vlmnop\1\2. ')

abd\aefg\r\nhij k\vlmno\1\2.


If you think this may help, you'll find SE here:

http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SE/2.2%20beta

Regards

Frederic

[Kay Schluehr]

Re: Escapeism

Frederic Rentsch wrote:

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:
>
>Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
>Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
>question:
>>
>You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>>
>How do you echo them using print?
>>
>print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
>print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
>...
>>
>It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.
>>
try "print repr(c)".
>

This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.

Kay

Kay,
>
This is perhaps yet another case for SE? I don't really know, because I
don't quite get what you're after. See for yourself:
>

>>import SE
>>Printabiliz er = SE.SE ( '''

(1)=\\1 # All 256 octets can be written as parenthesized ascii
(2)=\\2
"\a=\\a" # (7)=\\a"
"\n=\\n" # or (10)=\\n or (10)=LF or whatever
"\r=\\r" # (13)=CR
"\f=\\f"
"\v=\\v"
# Add whatever other ones you like
# and translate them to anything you like.
''')
>

>>print Printabilizer ('abd\aefg\r\nh ijk\vlmnop\1\2. ')

abd\aefg\r\nhij k\vlmno\1\2.
>
>
If you think this may help, you'll find SE here:

http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SE/2.2%20beta

>
>
Regards
>
Frederic

This looks quite good. "rawrificat ion" or "printabalizati on" that's
exactly what I was looking for and I thought this problem would be so
common that someone has done an implementation already. Thanks,
Frederik!

Kay

[Hendrik van Rooyen]

Re: Escapeism

"Kay Schluehr" <kay.schluehr@g mx.netwrote:

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

Kay Schluehr enlightened us with:

Usually I struggle a short while with \ and either succeed or give up.
Today I'm in a different mood and don't give up. So here is my
question:
>
You have an unknown character string c such as '\n' , '\a' , '\7' etc.
>
How do you echo them using print?
>
print_str( c ) prints representation '\a' to stdout for c = '\a'
print_str( c ) prints representation '\n' for c = '\n'
...
>
It is required that not a beep or a linebreak shall be printed.

try "print repr(c)".

>
This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.
>
Kay

dumb question - is the backslash as escape character fixed or can one set its
(the escape char's)
value so that backslash is not the escape char?

seems to me that would help - or if you could turn the behaviour off - don't
know how though...

- Hendrik

[Fredrik Lundh]

Re: Escapeism

Kay Schluehr wrote:

This yields the hexadecimal representation of the ASCII character and
does not simply echo the keystrokes '\' and 'a' for '\a' ignoring the
escape semantics. One way to achieve this naturally is by prefixing
'\a' with r where r'\a' indicates a "raw" string. But unfortunately
"rawrificat ion" applies only to string literals and not to string
objects ( such as c ). I consider creating a table consisting of pairs
{'\0': r'\0','\1': r'\1',...} i.e. a handcrafted mapping but maybe
I've overlooked some simple function or trick that does the same for
me.

if not else, you've missed that octal escapes consists of three digits,
not one, so translating chr(1) to r"\1" doesn't work in the general case
(e.g. len("\100") == 1, not 3)

</F>

[Fredrik Lundh]

Re: Escapeism

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

dumb question - is the backslash as escape character fixed

yes.

seems to me that would help

help with what?

or if you could turn the behaviour off - don't know how though...

eh? if you don't want to use repr(), you don't have to.

</F>