sqlite3 error

[Jorge Godoy]

Re: People's names

Steve Holden <steve@holdenwe b.comwrites:

It seems like some sort of free text search on a "full name" field looks like
the only realistic globally-acceptable (?) option.

This is what we opted doing. Normalization to this level wouldn't add much
since there are a lot of "Smith"s that aren't relatives.

If finding relatives is something you need to do, demand that the mother's
name be filled in and put an optional field for father's name. Then compare
and ask if there's something between two people with the same mother /
father. (Remember about people with the same name! There are a lot of "John
Smith" or "José da Silva" around :-))

--
Jorge Godoy <jgodoy@gmail.c om>

[Piet van Oostrum]

Re: People's names

>>>>Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospa m_ml@fastmail.f m(RS) wrote:

>RSIt's the same here in Belgium. Except that our Van is with a capital V in
>RSmost cases; if it's a lower v it either indicates nobility or a Dutch name.

>RSI don't see it as a problem. I prefer having Van Straeten and Van Stralen
>RSnext to each other than having them mixed up with names without Van like
>RSthis:
>RSStraeten, Van
>RSStraetmans
>RSStralen, Van

In Holland it is sorted without the 'van' 'de' etc.
--
Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.n l>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C 4]
Private email: piet@vanoostrum .org

[Theerasak Photha]

Re: People's names

On 10/10/06, Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.nlw rote:

>>>Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospa m_ml@fastmail.f m(RS) wrote:

>

RSIt's the same here in Belgium. Except that our Van is with a capital V in
RSmost cases; if it's a lower v it either indicates nobility or a Dutch name.

>

RSI don't see it as a problem. I prefer having Van Straeten and Van Stralen
RSnext to each other than having them mixed up with names without Van like
RSthis:
RSStraeten, Van
RSStraetmans
RSStralen, Van

>
In Holland it is sorted without the 'van' 'de' etc.

Which was my original point in mentioning similar Portuguese names. :)

BTW, do Dutch/Flemish family names now follow the trend of dropping
declension, as seen in both languages (dialects?) in general: e.g.,
'de' instead of 'der'?

-- Theerasak

[Leo Kislov]

Re: People's names (was Re: sqlite3 error)

John J. Lee wrote:

Steve Holden <steve@holdenwe b.comwrites:
[...]

There would also need to be a flag field to indicate the canonical
ordering
for writing out the full name: e.g. family-name-first, given-names-first.
Do we need something else for the Vietnamese case?

You'd think some standards body would have worked on this, wouldn't
you. I couldn't think of a Google search string that would lead to
such information, though. Maybe other, more determined, readers can do
better.

>
I suppose very few projects actually deal with more than a handful of
languages or cultures, but it does surprise me how hard it is to find
out about this kind of thing -- especially given that open source
projects often end up with all kinds of weird and wonderful localised
versions.
>
On a project that involved 9 localisations, just trying to find
information on the web about standard collation of diacritics
(accented characters) in English, German, and Scandinavian languages
was more difficult than I'd expected.

As far as I understand unicode.org has become the central(?) source of
locale information: http://unicode.org/cldr/ Did you use it?

[Roel Schroeven]

Re: People's names

Theerasak Photha schreef:

On 10/10/06, Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.nlw rote:

>>>>>>Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospa m_ml@fastmail.f m(RS) wrote:
>>RSIt's the same here in Belgium. Except that our Van is with a capital V in
>>RSmost cases; if it's a lower v it either indicates nobility or a Dutch name.
>>RSI don't see it as a problem. I prefer having Van Straeten and Van Stralen
>>RSnext to each other than having them mixed up with names without Van like
>>RSthis:
>>RSStraeten, Van
>>RSStraetman s
>>RSStralen, Van

>In Holland it is sorted without the 'van' 'de' etc.

>
Which was my original point in mentioning similar Portuguese names. :)
>
BTW, do Dutch/Flemish family names now follow the trend of dropping
declension, as seen in both languages (dialects?) in general: e.g.,
'de' instead of 'der'?

My observation is that in general names keep hanging on to archaic forms
much longer than normal language. Examples:

- A very common name around here is Hendrickx. In normal language, the
'ckx' construction is replaced with 'ks'.
- 'Straat' (English: 'street') (or 'straten' in multiple) used to be
written 'straet' ('straeten'); in names it is still written like that:
'Verstraeten' is a common name. 'Verstraten' exists too though, but is
less common I think.

But I can't think of that many names with 'der', so maybe the
declensions have been dropped already.

--
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven

[Theerasak Photha]

Re: People's names

On 10/11/06, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospa m_ml@fastmail.f mwrote:

My observation is that in general names keep hanging on to archaic forms
much longer than normal language. Examples:
>
- A very common name around here is Hendrickx. In normal language, the
'ckx' construction is replaced with 'ks'.
- 'Straat' (English: 'street') (or 'straten' in multiple) used to be
written 'straet' ('straeten'); in names it is still written like that:
'Verstraeten' is a common name. 'Verstraten' exists too though, but is
less common I think.
>
But I can't think of that many names with 'der', so maybe the
declensions have been dropped already.

Dutch 2.5. kekekekeke

I will be touring Flanders and seeing friends up there soon, actually.

-- Theerasak

[Antoon Pardon]

Re: People's names

On 2006-10-11, Theerasak Photha <hanumizzle@gma il.comwrote:

On 10/10/06, Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.nlw rote:

>>>>Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospa m_ml@fastmail.f m(RS) wrote:

>>

>RSIt's the same here in Belgium. Except that our Van is with a capital V in
>RSmost cases; if it's a lower v it either indicates nobility or a Dutch name.

>>

>RSI don't see it as a problem. I prefer having Van Straeten and Van Stralen
>RSnext to each other than having them mixed up with names without Van like
>RSthis:
>RSStraeten, Van
>RSStraetmans
>RSStralen, Van

>>
>In Holland it is sorted without the 'van' 'de' etc.

>
Which was my original point in mentioning similar Portuguese names. :)

But in Belgium (That includes the flemisch region) names are sorted
with the 'van' 'de' etc. De reason is rather simple. If you hear
someone's name as "Van den Hautte", you have no idea how it is spelled

Van Den Haute
Vandenhaute
Vanden Haute

These are all possible. Now I think you can hardly sort "Vandenhaut e"
next to "haute" because then you would need to know al kind of
prefixes that may be also written seperately. So by putting all these
names together it makes for easier searching in case you have doubts
on how the name is actually written.

BTW, do Dutch/Flemish family names now follow the trend of dropping
declension, as seen in both languages (dialects?) in general: e.g.,
'de' instead of 'der'?

Yes but not in names (at least in Flemish families)

--
Antoon Pardon

[Florian Diesch]

Re: People's names (was Re: sqlite3 error)

"Hendrik van Rooyen" <mail@microcorp .co.zawrote:

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@geek-central.gen.new _zealandwrote:
>
>

>In message <mailman.93.116 0373988.11739.p ython-list@python.org >, Hendrik van
>Rooyen wrote:
>>

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@geek-central.gen.new _zealandwrote:
>
8<--------------------------------------------------------
>
>I wonder if we need another "middle" field for holding the "bin/binte"
>part (could also hold, e.g. "Van" for those names that use this).
>
NOOOOO! - I think of my surname as "van Rooyen" - its only a string with a
space in it - and its peculiar in that the first letter is not
capitalised....
>
And I am sure that the people called "von Kardorff" would not agree
either...

>>
>So do the Dutch phone books have a lot of entries under V, then?
>>
>It just seems less efficient to me, that's all.

>
Don't know about what happens in Holland - my ancestors came over here to South
Africa a long time ago -
a mixed up kid I am - Dutch and French from the time of the revocation of the
edict of Nantes...
And yes, here the phone books are sorted that way - the "van Rensburg"s precede
the "van Rooyen"s. And what is worse, there are a lot of "van der"s too - two
spaces in the string like "van der Merwe" who are preceded by "van der Bank" -
"van" basically means "from" - like the German "von" - but in Germany its an
appellation applied to the nobility -

In Germany "von" is just a part of the name since 1919 when the nobility
was abolished by law. In the local phonebook it seems it's up tgo the
people how they want to be sorted. I see e.g. both "von Fürstenberg,
Ulrich" and "Fürstenber g, Constantin von".

and in my name it makes no sense as "Rooyen" is not a place - its a
strange archaic derivative of the colour red - "rooij' in Dutch, spelt

In Germany names like that were created when a commoner was
ennobled. There is a "von Roth" in the lokal phonebook ("roth" is an
archaic spelling of "rot" which means "red")



Florian
--
<http://www.florian-diesch.de/>

[Hendrik van Rooyen]

Re: People's names (was Re: sqlite3 error)

"Florian Diesch" <diesch@spamfen ce.net>wrote:
8<--------------------------------------------------------------

>In Germany "von" is just a part of the name since 1919 when the nobility
>was abolished by law.

Thanks - was not aware of this - 1919 - just after the Great War, 1914-1918...

- Hendrik