python vs java

[Aravind]

hi,

some of my friends told that python and java are similar in the idea of
platform independency. Can anyone give me an idea as i'm a newbie to java
and python but used to C++. My idea is to develop an app which can run both
in windows and linux.

Pls help.

Thanks in advance....

[Simon Hibbs]

Re: python vs java


Aravind wrote:

hi,
>
some of my friends told that python and java are similar in the idea of
platform independency. Can anyone give me an idea as i'm a newbie to java
and python but used to C++. My idea is to develop an app which can run both
in windows and linux.

That's true to an extent. Both Java and Python come with extensive
standard libraries, providing a useful toolkit for the programmer.
Python does have a number of cross-platform GUI toolkits abailable too,
including one in the standard library, although WxWidgets (formerly
WxWindows) is also popular.

I'd say that Python is easier to learn and more productive as a
language, but Java has a much larger selection of add-ons and libraries
available. I can't give you much more help without knowing what the app
will do, and therefore what language features or library/framework
support would be helpful.

Simon Hibbs

[Andy Dingley]

Re: python vs java


Aravind wrote:

some of my friends told that python and java are similar in the idea of
platform independency.

Similar in goal, but quite different in approach.

Python supports lots of platforms and goes to great lengths to offer
facades around whatever features a platform does have, so as to offer
the same benefits as Unix. Java lives in a virtualised environment
where it pretends there aren't any platforms. Perl pretends everything
_is_ Unix and falls flat when it isn't.

If you can cope with this, Java is simpler and less platform-bound.

If you actually need to get OS-level work done, Python is wonderful.
You can write stuff that hooks in at a fairly deep level, yet really is
portable.

[Jorgen Grahn]

Re: python vs java

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:53:29 +0530, Aravind <aravindmail007 @yahoo.co.inwro te:

hi,
>
some of my friends told that python and java are similar in the idea of
platform independency. Can anyone give me an idea as i'm a newbie to java
and python but used to C++.

Well, what Java and Python (and some other languages) have in common is a
large standard library.

The C++ standard library is smaller, and doesn't cover things like advanced
file I/O, networking, concurrency, or user interfaces. You either have to
find third-party portable libraries for the things you want to do, or target
a specific platform.

As a side note, Python differs from Java by happily including non-portable
things in its standard library. If Unix people need access to poll(2); fine,
then they make it available, even though it won't work on e.g. Win32.
And document that it isn't portable.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/ snipabacken.dyn dns.org R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Re: python vs java

Aravind wrote:

hi,
>
some of my friends told that python and java are similar in the idea of
platform independency.

Well, not quite IMHO.

Java treats the problem by taking the autistic attitude of pretending
the underlying platform doesn't exists - which can be a major PITA.

Python is much more pragmatic, and can even offer really strong
integration with the platform *without* sacrifying portability - the
core language is platform-independant and tries to help you wrinting
platform-independant code (cf the os and os.path modules), and
platform-specific stuff is usually isolated in distinct packages with a
BIG caution note on it !-)

Can anyone give me an idea as i'm a newbie to java
and python but used to C++. My idea is to develop an app which can run both
in windows and linux.

With a GUI ? If so, you probably want to check out wxPython or PyGTK
(wxPython will also buy you MacOS X IIRC, and wil perhaps be easier to
install on Windows).

Else (web, command-line, what else ?), you should not have any
particular problem as long as you avoid using platform-specific packages
and always use the portability helper features (ie os.path etc).

Coming from C++, you'll probably need a few days to grasp Python's
object model and idioms (Python looks much less like a dumbed-down C++
than Java), but my bet is that you'll be productive *way* sooner with
Python, and *much* more productive.

My 2 cents,
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb@xiludom. gro'.split('@')])"

[Jason]

Re: python vs java

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

With a GUI ? If so, you probably want to check out wxPython or PyGTK
(wxPython will also buy you MacOS X IIRC, and wil perhaps be easier to
install on Windows).

Just a warning: wxPython does operate slightly differently between Mac
OS X, Linux, and Windows. The differences are usually minor and easy
to clean up in a cross-platform manner, but be aware that you need to
test on all platforms that you're going to release on.

For example, MDI apps are anthema to Linux's GTK, so wxGTK uses a
tabbed dialog to approximate the same thing. While Mac OS X can
associate a Python object (in my case, None) with a hidden top-level
tree control node, Windows will throw a C++ assertion.

If you are used to using MFC, wxWidgets (which wxPython uses) provides
a very MFC'ish programming experience. It's pretty decent, and the
wxPython demo provides lots of neat interactive examples.

--Jason

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Re: python vs java

Jason wrote:

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

>With a GUI ? If so, you probably want to check out wxPython or PyGTK
>(wxPython will also buy you MacOS X IIRC, and wil perhaps be easier to
>install on Windows).

>
Just a warning: wxPython does operate slightly differently between Mac
OS X, Linux, and Windows. The differences are usually minor and easy
to clean up in a cross-platform manner, but be aware that you need to
test on all platforms that you're going to release on.

I don't think one could pretend writing a cross-platform application
without testing it on all targeted platforms.

(snip)
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb@xiludom. gro'.split('@')])"

[Felipe Almeida Lessa]

Re: python vs java

2006/9/7, Bruno Desthuilliers <onurb@xiludom. gro>:

I don't think one could pretend writing a cross-platform application
without testing it on all targeted platforms.

E.g: while creating a free software, you may not have an Apple
computer but you may want to be *possible* to run your program there.
You don't test it, but you *think* it runs there. Not everybody has a
spare MacOS X to test apps.

Of course, if your software *needs* to run in some particular OS then
you have to test on it.

--
Felipe.

[Jason]

Re: python vs java

Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:

2006/9/7, Bruno Desthuilliers <onurb@xiludom. gro>:

I don't think one could pretend writing a cross-platform application
without testing it on all targeted platforms.

>
E.g: while creating a free software, you may not have an Apple
computer but you may want to be *possible* to run your program there.
You don't test it, but you *think* it runs there. Not everybody has a
spare MacOS X to test apps.

Ah, but those with the Intel Apples can run Linux, Windows, and Mac OS
X at the same time! *grin*

Actually, that's how I'm working on my wx/Python application. I write
it under Mac OS X and occasionally pull it into my Windows and Ubuntu
virtual machines for further testing.

Of course, if your software *needs* to run in some particular OS then
you have to test on it.

Certainly. And this point should be emphasized for any cross-platform
language, especially for folk who may not have done such development
before. The "write once, run everywhere" phrase does have a footnote.
Python's documentation is very good at pointing out what is platform
independent and what isn't, but other packages are not as thorough.

--Jason