proposed Python logo

[A.M. Kuchling]

Re: proposed Python logo

On 21 Apr 2006 09:17:52 -0700,
BartlebyScriven er <rpdooling@gmai l.com> wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I'd like some variation of <http://tinyurl.com/gj74k> used as a logo.[/color][/color]
> That has real potential, but I bet it's trademarked.[/color]

It's taken from a Renaissance painting
(http://witcombe.sbc.edu/davincicode/...-allegory.html -- NSFW,
if your workplace is dumb), so the foot itself shouldn't be
trademarked; its use alongside the word "Python" might conceivably be.

--amk

[Grant Edwards]

Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis <mtobis@gmail.c om> wrote:
[color=blue]
> (The main thing I dislike about Python is that the documentation is too
> sketchy.[/color]

Well, Monty Python was a pretty sketchy show...

[sorry]
[color=blue]
> The best snake-and-language logos I have seen are the Twisted-Matrix
> one and the PyCon one.[/color]

Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
on using a snake in the logo?
[color=blue]
> But I think my idea can be developed too. I think the colon as
> snake-eyes thing is a big win. We would think affectionately
> of the snake every time we type the unnecessary colon.[/color]

I think something Monty Python related would be better. How
about a nice can of spam?

I doubt our friends in Austin would like that idea. OTOH,
there is a Monty Python "spam, spam, spam, spam" display in the
spam museum (which is actually much more interesting than you
might think).

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... Um...Um...
at
visi.com

[Tim Parkin]

Re: proposed Python logo

Michael Tobis wrote:[color=blue]
>
> That said, and conceding that the first impression is positive, I don't
> see how it represents Python. More to the point, the longer I look at
> it the less I like it, and I would NOT wear it on a T-shirt.
>[/color]

over 25 people disagree with you so far and thats without any
advertising whatsoever (and it's an older version of the logo) because
you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
the psf.

I'll add the new logo over the weekend.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>The + formation is positive enough, and it has a yin-yang
>>feel to it which to me conjures up the image of balance, not
>>divisivenes s.[/color]
>
> Both the cross and the yin-yang have religious associations, which will
> be positive for some and negative for others but will certainly be
> unrepresentativ e of what Python is. This would be a great logo for
> Taoist Christians, if such a group exists.
>
> How is Python about "balance"? It is about abstraction, composition,
> the whole greater than the parts, yes, but there's nothing there that
> really draws on duality. So the whole two-ness of the thing is one of
> the parts that disturbs me.
>[/color]

They're freindly snakes at a tadpole fancy dress competition having a
'cuddle'. Where do you think Python eggs come from...

Tim Parkin

p.s. the logo is actually based on mayan representations of snakes which
very often represent only the head and perhaps a short length of tail.
The structure of the snake representations the natural coiling/nesting
of a snake as seen side on.. The following image shows a similar
representation (we have a snake house nearby which makes it easier to
observe behaviour)

http://www.xcalak.info/images/florafauna/fer_de_lance_l.jpg

The mesoamerican calendar also represents snake heads in a similar manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzolkin

The abstraction of the snake design used in mayan culture seemed
non-denominational enough to only raise contrived objections. The shapes
used (cross/spiral/yin-yang) are also primitive enough that there will
always be connotations that can be derived.

http://www.alovelyworld.com/webhon/gimage/hdu011.jpg

http://www.khoahoc.com.vn/photos/Image/2005/11/16/maya-snake.jpg

http://www.xcalak.info/images/florafauna/fer_de_lance_l.jpg

The two headed snake was also an influence on the design

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bjaya...tec_snake.html

which is also a common 'meme' in many continents, including africa

http://www.sfu.ca/archaeology/museum/ndi/cam5.jpg

And I'd like to see you tell a civil war soldier that it looks like his
trousers are held up by a two headed tadpole

http://www.civilwarrelics.com/museum/graphics/Frame25a.JPG

If you look carefully at the logo, you will also see an indian symbol of
peace.. (I'll leave this one alone as it can also mean something else).

[BartlebyScrivener]

Re: proposed Python logo

>> (and it's an older version of the logo) because[color=blue][color=green]
>> you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
>> the psf.[/color][/color]

I just ordered some stuff from cafe press, are you saying I'm getting
an old version of the logo?

rick

[Tim Parkin]

Re: proposed Python logo

BartlebyScriven er wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>(and it's an older version of the logo) because
>>>you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
>>>the psf.[/color][/color]
>
>
> I just ordered some stuff from cafe press, are you saying I'm getting
> an old version of the logo?
>[/color]

An alternate 'collectors' rendition of the new logo as used by Guido Van
Rossum in his recent New York Google presentations and also as on
t-shirts, mugs and flags handed out during EuroPython 2005!

Tim Parkin

p.s. was that good enough spin for you ;-)

[Michael Tobis]

Re: proposed Python logo

A more Monty sort of Python logo would be fine with me. A flying sheep
perhaps? An exploding penguin? A giant hedgehog? A dog license with the
word "dog" crossed out and "cat" written in crayon? A great big book on
how to put your budgie down?

This http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~...pfc/GUMBY3.JPG
chap?

I'm not sure that conveys the intended gravitas to the corporate
community, though.

mt

[Grant Edwards]

Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis <mtobis@gmail.c om> wrote:
[color=blue]
> This http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~...pfc/GUMBY3.JPG
> chap?
>
> I'm not sure that conveys the intended gravitas to the
> corporate community, though.[/color]

Monty Python never was very big on "corporate community
gravitas", so that's probably going to be a persistent problem
should one try to find a Monty Pythonesque logo.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Do I have a lifestyle
at yet?
visi.com

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Re: proposed Python logo

In article <124i8176of8133 1@corp.supernew s.com>,
Grant Edwards <grante@visi.co m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
>on using a snake in the logo?[/color]
....[color=blue]
>I think something Monty Python related would be better. How
>about a nice can of spam?[/color]

Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Re: proposed Python logo

In article <1145640106.269 556.276060@u72g 2000cwu.googleg roups.com>,
"Michael Tobis" <mtobis@gmail.c om> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I think the colon as snake-eyes thing is a big win[/color]

I liked that bit too. Whatever changes are made, that should be kept.

[Carl J. Van Arsdall]

Re: proposed Python logo

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <124i8176of8133 1@corp.supernew s.com>,
> Grant Edwards <grante@visi.co m> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>> Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
>> on using a snake in the logo?
>>[/color]
> ...
>[color=green]
>> I think something Monty Python related would be better. How
>> about a nice can of spam?
>>[/color]
>
> Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.
>[/color]

Six?

Looks more like 4 to me.



--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall@mvi sta.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

[Grant Edwards]

Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new _zealand> wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <124i8176of8133 1@corp.supernew s.com>,
> Grant Edwards <grante@visi.co m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
>>on using a snake in the logo?[/color]
> ...[color=green]
>>I think something Monty Python related would be better. How
>>about a nice can of spam?[/color]
>
> Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.[/color]

Hence my remarks about how it might upset Hormel.

IOW, I was kidding.

I have really been to the SPAM museum, though. Since SPAM is
intimately connected to WWII in many peoples hearts and minds,
they had a bunch of WWII planes fly in for the SPAM museum
grand opening. Way cool. It's pretty impresive having a B-25
bomber taxi up to withing a couple dozen feet of you while you're
standing there stunned by the noise...

--
Grant

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Re: proposed Python logo

In article <bkgj42l8mkjgco aak6tiedjqq0snb 93fcj@4ax.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.net com.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:13:53 -0700, "Carl J. Van Arsdall"
><cvanarsdall@m vista.com> declaimed the following in comp.lang.pytho n:
>[color=green]
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> Six?
>>
>> Looks more like 4 to me.[/color]
>
> Ah, but maybe it is self-referential...[/color]

At last, someone with the imagination I thought would be more common
among Pythonistas. :)

[jarrells@jarrells.cjb.net]

Re: proposed Python logo

Mike,

Excellent artwork!

I don't like reinventing the wheel so I propose we reuse someone else's
work.

I propose something like:

http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/reviewgfx/bompfc1.jpg

which symbolizes Python's ability to quickly implement many coding
ideas or:

http://www.phill.co.uk/comedy/python/python15.jpg

which symbolizes Python's ability to squash the competition for quick
coding or:

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...AG/939-009.jpg

which symbolizes Python's place as the pick of the litter.

They also symbolize the fact that coder's shouldn't take life too
seriously.

Happy coding!

Mike

Michael Tobis wrote:[color=blue]
> "Is this the right room for an argument?"
>
> http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~tobis/snake.png
>
> ok, so my execution is pretty crude, but you can at least see my idea.
> I trust you to imagine it professionally executed in cheerful colors.
>
> Advantages of proposed logo over existing logo[/color]
<SNIP GOOD ARGUMENTS>[color=blue]
>
> Much as it would be an ego-boost for me to have some version of this
> idea used for the language, I'm almost as happy with repurposing the
> most excellent PyCon logo if that is OK with everyone involved. But imo
> we can't fully promote the power of Python with tadpoles.
>
> mt[/color]

[Steve Holden]

Re: proposed Python logo

Michael Tobis wrote:[color=blue]
> "Is this the right room for an argument?"
>
> http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~tobis/snake.png
>[/color]
Is that a gun in its pocket, or is it just glad to see me? (with
apologies to Mae West).

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Love me, love my blog http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

[Steve Holden]

Re: proposed Python logo

Michael Tobis wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>>Not that I'm disagreeing, but how to you rate "resonance with the product"?[/color]
>
>
> Hmm, I'm not a marketing professional, but this is would I would do
> with my focus groups:
>
> Ask people familar with the product to name what they like about the
> image, and what they like about the product, and look for analogies
> between them. Ask them what they dislike about the image and the
> product, and minimize overlap.
>
> (The main thing I dislike about Python is that the documentation is too
> sketchy. It's very unclear what the official logo represents. So
> another strike against it; it reminds me of the confusion I often face
> on making use of an unfamiliar module.)[/color]

As opposed to, for example, Apache's feater, which immediately says ...
er, er, ... ?

Anyway, none of this is intended to discourage you, I think it's good
that people are still interested in improving Python's image (as am I:
see http://squidoo.com/pythonology).

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Love me, love my blog http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden