Java Developer Exploring Python

**Ravi Teja** · Apr 17 '06, 05:05 PM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

>> I've traditionally been a Java developer, although I play around with LISP.

For most java developers, understanding dynamic typing is a big step.
Your Lisp background however would mean that you will pick up Python
very quickly.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I recently migrated to Linux and I was exploring Mono as an[/color][/color]
option for development on Linux. However, I've had some problems with
the maturity and support when working with Mono.

IronPython (still a beta) BTW, runs on Mono as well and you can use
Mono through Python when you deem it ready. There is also Jython, which
runs on the Java platform if you feel married to Java platform or class
libraries.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux?[/color][/color]

Yes and very well so. Many Linux distributions come with Python
pre-installed and Python has quite a bit of following in the Linux
crowd. Red Hat / Fedora installer - Anaconda, for example uses Python.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Would it be a viable option for cross-platform application development?[/color][/color]

Python is a very good candidate for open source development. But then
again, most open source languages these days are. The culture is a bit
different though. Although Python is byte code compiled just like Java,
Python programmers are not averse to using native extensions (which in
most cases can be compiled painlessly on all popular platforms thanks
to Python's distutils). Java programmers on the other hand generally
extol 'Pure Java'. Both approaches have their own advantages and
disadvantages (Swing vs SWT) and you can use either with Python.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?[/color][/color]

Most Python IDEs are open source along with a few commercial ones.

IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

Everyone has their favorites and you should pick your own.

Since you have a Java background, PyDev is probably the best choice for
you. JEdit also has a Python plugin. I just use SciTE (just an editor)
most of the time.

**redefined.horizons@gmail.com** · Apr 17 '06, 08:45 PM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

Ravi Teja wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I've traditionally been a Java developer, although I play around with LISP.[/color][/color]
>
> For most java developers, understanding dynamic typing is a big step.
> Your Lisp background however would mean that you will pick up Python
> very quickly.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I recently migrated to Linux and I was exploring Mono as an[/color][/color]
> option for development on Linux. However, I've had some problems with
> the maturity and support when working with Mono.
>
> IronPython (still a beta) BTW, runs on Mono as well and you can use
> Mono through Python when you deem it ready. There is also Jython, which
> runs on the Java platform if you feel married to Java platform or class
> libraries.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux?[/color][/color]
>
> Yes and very well so. Many Linux distributions come with Python
> pre-installed and Python has quite a bit of following in the Linux
> crowd. Red Hat / Fedora installer - Anaconda, for example uses Python.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Would it be a viable option for cross-platform application development?[/color][/color]
>
> Python is a very good candidate for open source development. But then
> again, most open source languages these days are. The culture is a bit
> different though. Although Python is byte code compiled just like Java,
> Python programmers are not averse to using native extensions (which in
> most cases can be compiled painlessly on all popular platforms thanks
> to Python's distutils). Java programmers on the other hand generally
> extol 'Pure Java'. Both approaches have their own advantages and
> disadvantages (Swing vs SWT) and you can use either with Python.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?[/color][/color]
>
> Most Python IDEs are open source along with a few commercial ones.
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Integrat...ntEnvironments
> Everyone has their favorites and you should pick your own.
>
> Since you have a Java background, PyDev is probably the best choice for
> you. JEdit also has a Python plugin. I just use SciTE (just an editor)
> most of the time.[/color]

Ravi,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. It sounds like
Python may be the solution I am searching for. I took a look at lists
of the IDEs on the wiki. Looks like I might be sticking with the IDLE
editor for now. :] Perhaps I will have to write a simple IDE for Python
that integrates Glade and supports pyGTK when I have some more
programming experience...

Scott Huey

**Alex Martelli** · Apr 18 '06, 02:25 AM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

Ravi Teja <webraviteja@gm ail.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I've traditionally been a Java developer, although I play around with LISP.[/color][/color]
>
> For most java developers, understanding dynamic typing is a big step.
> Your Lisp background however would mean that you will pick up Python
> very quickly.[/color]

Very good point.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> I recently migrated to Linux and I was exploring Mono as an[/color][/color]
> option for development on Linux. However, I've had some problems with
> the maturity and support when working with Mono.
>
> IronPython (still a beta) BTW, runs on Mono as well and you can use
> Mono through Python when you deem it ready. There is also Jython, which
> runs on the Java platform if you feel married to Java platform or class
> libraries.[/color]

Both are important options, of course; mostly, they offer assurances
that the effort spent today in mastering Python is never going to be
"wasted" even if different deployment platforms are needed for some
future projects (Python is good at invading niches of all kinds;-).

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux?[/color][/color]
>
> Yes and very well so. Many Linux distributions come with Python
> pre-installed and Python has quite a bit of following in the Linux
> crowd. Red Hat / Fedora installer - Anaconda, for example uses Python.[/color]

Maybe the best example is Ubuntu, since its principal proponent, Mark
Shuttleworth, is such a fan of Python -- his foundation offers bounties
for Python projects, for example.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Would it be a viable option for cross-platform application development?[/color][/color]
>
> Python is a very good candidate for open source development. But then
> again, most open source languages these days are. The culture is a bit
> different though. Although Python is byte code compiled just like Java,
> Python programmers are not averse to using native extensions (which in
> most cases can be compiled painlessly on all popular platforms thanks
> to Python's distutils). Java programmers on the other hand generally
> extol 'Pure Java'. Both approaches have their own advantages and
> disadvantages (Swing vs SWT) and you can use either with Python.[/color]

A rather good summary! Yes, part of Python's ability to infiltrate
niches is the willingness to exploit whatever's around, without getting
into a "language purist" mood. Consider for example that one of the
additions to Python 2.5 (currently in alpha stage) is the inclusion in
the Python standard library of ctypes, an extension (which is and will
also remain available for download for previous Python releases) that
lets Python code dynamically load any available .DLL/.so/.dylib (roughly
same thing but different file extensions depending on platform;-) and
call C-level functions therein.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?[/color][/color]
>
> Most Python IDEs are open source along with a few commercial ones.
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Integrat...ntEnvironments
> Everyone has their favorites and you should pick your own.
>
> Since you have a Java background, PyDev is probably the best choice for
> you. JEdit also has a Python plugin. I just use SciTE (just an editor)
> most of the time.[/color]

My vote would go to eric3, but then, I _am_ a Qt fan;-). As you say,
the wiki is a better choice, to get an idea of the available options,
than any individual's suggestions...

Alex

**Roy Smith** · Apr 18 '06, 02:35 AM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

In article <1hdyb46.1yllks t1o2asjlN%aleax it@yahoo.com>,
aleaxit@yahoo.c om (Alex Martelli) wrote:
[color=blue]
> Consider for example that one of the additions to Python 2.5 (currently
> in alpha stage) is the inclusion in the Python standard library of
> ctypes[/color]

Indeed, I think the inclusion of ctypes is far and away the most exciting
thing in 2.5.

**Renato** · Apr 18 '06, 07:45 AM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

You don't actually *need* a libglade/pyGtk IDE: glade will be more than
enough :-)

By its very nature glade will enable you to design the GUI and define
the signals.

Then you'll load the glade file in python, and use whatever editor you
feel comfortable with.

--
Have fun,
Renato Ramonda

**bruno at modulix** · Apr 18 '06, 09:15 AM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

redefined.horiz ons@gmail.com wrote:[color=blue]
> I've traditionally been a Java developer, although I play around with
> LISP. I recently migrated to Linux and I was exploring Mono as an
> option for development on Linux. However, I've had some problems with
> the maturity and support when working with Mono. So I was considering
> Python as an alternative development language.
>
> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux?[/color]

Yes. In fact, all distros I know ships with (and often depends on) Python.
[color=blue]
> Would it be a
> viable option for cross-platform application development?[/color]

Yes. Python runs on most platforms, and wxPython runs on Windows, MacOS
X, and most Unices
[color=blue]
> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?[/color]

Emacs ?-)

--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb@xiludom. gro'.split('@')])"

**Aahz** · Apr 18 '06, 05:45 PM

2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

In article <roy-FCE9BE.22212817 042006@reader1. panix.com>,
Roy Smith <roy@panix.co m> wrote:[color=blue]
>In article <1hdyb46.1yllks t1o2asjlN%aleax it@yahoo.com>,
> aleaxit@yahoo.c om (Alex Martelli) wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> Consider for example that one of the additions to Python 2.5 (currently
>> in alpha stage) is the inclusion in the Python standard library of
>> ctypes[/color]
>
>Indeed, I think the inclusion of ctypes is far and away the most exciting
>thing in 2.5.[/color]

Really? More than pysqlite?
--
Aahz (aahz@pythoncra ft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"LL YR VWL R BLNG T S"

**Jorge Godoy** · Apr 18 '06, 05:55 PM

Re: 2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

Aahz wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <roy-FCE9BE.22212817 042006@reader1. panix.com>,
> Roy Smith <roy@panix.co m> wrote:[color=green]
>>Indeed, I think the inclusion of ctypes is far and away the most exciting
>>thing in 2.5.[/color]
>
> Really? More than pysqlite?[/color]

To me much more. After all, why would I need pysqlite if I use
PostgreSQL? ;-)

/me remembering the old days of Clipper Summer '87, when he'd use DBFs all
over... ;-)

--
Jorge Godoy <godoy@ieee.org >

"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
- Qualquer coisa dita em latim soa profundo.
- Anything said in Latin sounds smart.

**Aahz** · Apr 18 '06, 06:05 PM

Re: 2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

In article <1204021.LzRF60 KP7e@jupiter.g2 ctech>,
Jorge Godoy <godoy@ieee.org > wrote:[color=blue]
>Aahz wrote:[color=green]
>> In article <roy-FCE9BE.22212817 042006@reader1. panix.com>,
>> Roy Smith <roy@panix.co m> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>Indeed, I think the inclusion of ctypes is far and away the most exciting
>>>thing in 2.5.[/color]
>>
>> Really? More than pysqlite?[/color]
>
>To me much more. After all, why would I need pysqlite if I use
>PostgreSQL? ;-)[/color]

Heh. Since we're just finally turning in our 100% first draft of Python
for Dummies, I tend to think more in terms of what a Python newbie will
find useful. On that front, I think that pysqlite is much more
important because it finally gets rid of the excuse for using Berkeley
for simple database purposes.
--
Aahz (aahz@pythoncra ft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"LL YR VWL R BLNG T S"

**Jorge Godoy** · Apr 18 '06, 06:05 PM

Re: 2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

Aahz wrote:
[color=blue]
> Heh. Since we're just finally turning in our 100% first draft of Python
> for Dummies, I tend to think more in terms of what a Python newbie will
> find useful. On that front, I think that pysqlite is much more
> important because it finally gets rid of the excuse for using Berkeley
> for simple database purposes.[/color]

You're right Aahz. It is more useful. I was just being "smart" with
you :-)

Now it will be easier to provide that classic phone book example in your
book :-)

--
Jorge Godoy <godoy@ieee.org >

"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
- Qualquer coisa dita em latim soa profundo.
- Anything said in Latin sounds smart.

**Jon Ribbens** · Apr 18 '06, 07:05 PM

Re: 2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

In article <e238u8$4k0$1@p anix1.panix.com >, Aahz wrote:[color=blue]
> On that front, I think that pysqlite is much more important because
> it finally gets rid of the excuse for using Berkeley for simple
> database purposes.[/color]

Apologies if I'm being obtuse, but how does including the pysqlite
wrapper module change anything? You still need to download and install
SQLite, so what's the point of including a wrapper for something you
may or may not have? Why is pysqlite included, for example, and not
MySQL-Python or postgresql or whatever?

**Fredrik Lundh** · Apr 18 '06, 07:15 PM

Re: 2.5 excitement (was Re: Java Developer Exploring Python)

Jon Ribbens wrote:
[color=blue]
> Apologies if I'm being obtuse, but how does including the pysqlite
> wrapper module change anything? You still need to download and install
> SQLite[/color]

I'm pretty sure the distributors will do this for you, just as they've included
zlib, dbm, tcl/tk, openssl, and many other standard libraries over the years.

</F>

**Jarek Zgoda** · Apr 18 '06, 07:55 PM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

redefined.horiz ons@gmail.com napisa³(a):
[color=blue]
> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux? Would it be a
> viable option for cross-platform application development?[/color]

Yeas and yeas. Yeas. (That's how we pronounce "yes" here, in Poland,
East Europe).
[color=blue]
> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?[/color]

Komodo. But in most cases you don't need any IDE, just good text editor
would make it go. Like Kate, jEdit or similar.

--
Jarek Zgoda

http://jpa.berlios.de/

**Carl J. Van Arsdall** · Apr 18 '06, 08:05 PM

Re: Java Developer Exploring Python

Jarek Zgoda wrote:[color=blue]
> redefined.horiz ons@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
>[color=green]
>> Is Python actively developed and supported on Linux? Would it be a
>> viable option for cross-platform application development?
>>[/color]
>
> Yeas and yeas. Yeas. (That's how we pronounce "yes" here, in Poland,
> East Europe).
>
>[color=green]
>> Can anyone recommend an open source IDE for Python that runs on Linux?
>>[/color][/color]
My favorite IDE: vi[color=blue]
>
> Komodo. But in most cases you don't need any IDE, just good text editor
> would make it go. Like Kate, jEdit or similar.
>[/color]

--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall@mvi sta.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

Java Developer Exploring Python

Java Developer Exploring Python

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