Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

**ajones** · Apr 1 '06, 08:05 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

I say good riddence. Python's success has always been on its merits as
an open source application platform. Corprate usage has always been
relatively insignificant, and I suspect that many companies are
overrepresentin g the level of dependance they have on python in an
attempt to steer their competitors into just this kind of open source
license trap.

I am all for this change. It is about time that free as in beer became
a double entendre for python.

**Kay Schluehr** · Apr 1 '06, 08:15 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Steve Holden wrote:[color=blue]
> As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
> recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
>
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/...ng-change.html
>
> I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
> it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
> reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
> contributing to the code base.
>
> If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
> something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
> Python as we know it.
>
> regards
> Steve
> --
> Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
> Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogs pot.com[/color]

I'm +1 on the new license because I want to spend good money for good
products.

My own take is more close to Xah Lees: lets be ultimately responsible
and found an insurance for all kind of damages related to Python script
usages. Part of the money the PSF earns for insurance fees could be
donated to a charitable foundation that cares for indian children that
suffer from snake bites.

**Fuzzyman** · Apr 1 '06, 08:45 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Steve Holden wrote:[color=blue]
> As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
> recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
>
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/...ng-change.html
>
> I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
> it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
> reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
> contributing to the code base.
>
> If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
> something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
> Python as we know it.
>[/color]

Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?

Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
Right ?

Does this cover commercial applications that embed the Python
interpreter ? (Looks like it will)

All the best,

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

[color=blue]
> regards
> Steve
> --
> Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
> Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogs pot.com[/color]

**Fuzzyman** · Apr 1 '06, 08:55 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Fuzzyman wrote:[color=blue]
> Steve Holden wrote:[color=green]
> > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
> > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
> >
> > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/...ng-change.html
> >
> > I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
> > it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
> > reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
> > contributing to the code base.
> >
> > If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
> > something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
> > Python as we know it.
> >[/color]
>
> Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
> of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?
>
> Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
> CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
> Right ?
>
> Does this cover commercial applications that embed the Python
> interpreter ? (Looks like it will)
>[/color]

Hmmm... after due consideration (and reading the announcmement
properly), I support this license change in full.

Nice one Steve.

Fuzzy
[color=blue]
> All the best,
>
> Fuzzyman
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
>[color=green]
> > regards
> > Steve
> > --
> > Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
> > Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
> > Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogs pot.com[/color][/color]

**Caleb Hattingh** · Apr 1 '06, 09:05 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Steve

I agree with you. If my vote means anything, I vote against it.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The Board realises that this change will be
>> contentious. There are many advantages
>> to making it, however, which we feel will
>> benefit the Python community at large
>> and the PSF membership in particular.
>> Users who wish to make commercial
>> use of Python on a royalty-free basis
>> are encouraged to continue using Python 2.4,
>> whose licensing conditions remain the same.[/color][/color]

I guess what would happen is that many people will sit on 2.4 for a lot
longer than expected, or widespread interest in other implementations
(fork?) suddenly take off ;)

I would pretty much have to remain with 2.4 at work - we have a
draconian IT software management policy that would prevent me getting
approval for a commercial licence for python for at least the better
part of a year, and this cycle would be repeated for every upgrade (the
hold-ups involve budgets, cost-centres and red tape). This is why I
use as much free software as possible.

Regards
Caleb

**Caleb Hattingh** · Apr 1 '06, 09:05 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

WAIT-

Did I just get caught by an April Fools Joke?

I have a nasty feeling about this :))

C

**Piet van Oostrum** · Apr 1 '06, 09:25 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

>>>>> "Fuzzyman" <fuzzyman@gmail .com> (F) wrote:
[color=blue]
>F> Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
>F> of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?[/color]
[color=blue]
>F> Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
>F> CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
>F> Right ?[/color]

As I understand it, distributing Python is also covered. For a commercial
vendor $1.25 is peanuts, but for the PSA it is a significant amount (think
about all the Mac OSX copies if Apple decides to switch to 2.5).
--
Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.n l>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C 4]
Private email: piet@vanoostrum .org

**Ivan Herman** · Apr 1 '06, 10:05 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

I would certainly look at *all details* of the announcement, including
the second line from the top which gives the date:-)

Ivan

Caleb Hattingh wrote:[color=blue]
> WAIT-
>
> Did I just get caught by an April Fools Joke?
>
> I have a nasty feeling about this :))
>
> C
>[/color]

**bearophileHUGS@lycos.com** · Apr 1 '06, 10:25 AM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Ivan Herman>I would certainly look at *all details* of the
announcement,<

Aww, but I liked the idea of copying Perl 6 REs, and porting python to
the toy CPU :-)
(But making strings mutable sounds too much strange).

Bye and thank you,
bearophile

**Kent Johnson** · Apr 1 '06, 12:05 PM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

bearophileHUGS@ lycos.com wrote:[color=blue]
> Aww, but I liked the idea of copying Perl 6 REs, and porting python to
> the toy CPU :-)[/color]

I think if PSF is going to support porting of Python to "toy" CPUs then
the Digi-Comp should be the first target. This will breathe new life
into these toys which for years have been relegated to the backs of
closets and dusty attics. Having a modern programming language available
will bring them out of the dark ages of counters and logic tables and
make them useful for such purposes as web servers and biological
research. And for the developers or others who need to target this
platform, it is again in production.

Blog nicht gefunden.

http://paperforest.blogspot.com/2006/02/digi-comp-1.html

Blogger ist ein Veröffentlichungs-Tool von Google, mit dem du ganz einfach deine Gedanken der Welt mitteilen kannst. Mit Blogger kannst du problemlos Texte, Fotos und Videos in deinem persönlichen Blog oder deinem Team-Blog veröffentlichen.

Kent

**garylinux@gmail.com** · Apr 1 '06, 02:15 PM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Look at the date.
Worry about this if it is still around tomarrow

**Grant Edwards** · Apr 1 '06, 02:35 PM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

On 2006-04-01, Steve Holden <steve@holdenwe b.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
> recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
>
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/...ng-change.html[/color]

Good one Steve.

I particularly liked the Comments section.

:)

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I represent a
at sardine!!
visi.com

**Grant Edwards** · Apr 1 '06, 02:35 PM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

On 2006-04-01, Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.n l> wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>> "Fuzzyman" <fuzzyman@gmail .com> (F) wrote:[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>>F> Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
>>F> of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?[/color]
>[color=green]
>>F> Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
>>F> CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
>>F> Right ?[/color]
>
> As I understand it, distributing Python is also covered. For a commercial
> vendor $1.25 is peanuts, but for the PSA it is a significant amount (think
> about all the Mac OSX copies if Apple decides to switch to 2.5).[/color]

I just found last night that my spankin' new Thinkpad came with
Python 2.2 pre-installed underneath an "IBMTOOLS" directory on
the C: drive.

Don't let Lenovo slide by without paying...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'll take ROAST BEEF
at if you're out of LAMB!!
visi.com

**Roy Smith** · Apr 1 '06, 02:55 PM

Re: Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

In article <mailman.3963.1 143875694.27775 .python-list@python.org >,
Steve Holden <steve@holdenwe b.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
> recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
>
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/...ng-change.html
>
> I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
> it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
> reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
> contributing to the code base.
>
> If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
> something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
> Python as we know it.
>
> regards
> Steve[/color]

Absolutely agree. This is a disaster. Specifying the use of $US will shut
out our friends who use quatloos or gold pressed latinum for currency. Bad
idea.