I want a Python Puppy !

[Claudio Grondi]

I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a complete
operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 - 60M booting
directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).

This approach appears to me very Pythonic, so it were a nice thing to
have a full featured Puppy Linux Live CD prepared for Python programming.

Have someone already breed a Python Puppy and is so kind to share a copy
of it with me?

Claudio

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Claudio Grondi schrieb:[color=blue]
> I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a complete
> operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 - 60M booting
> directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).
>
> This approach appears to me very Pythonic, so it were a nice thing to
> have a full featured Puppy Linux Live CD prepared for Python programming.
>
> Have someone already breed a Python Puppy and is so kind to share a copy
> of it with me?[/color]

AFAIK Knoppix comes with python. And lots of other stuff.

Diez

[Paul Boddie]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Claudio Grondi wrote:[color=blue]
> I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a complete
> operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 - 60M booting
> directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).[/color]

This isn't really Python-related, but I thought that Puppy Linux would
be even more interesting if it could use CD-RW media wisely (so that
you don't fill up a CD-R disc and then have to burn the image and the
latest contents onto another one, but can instead create new sessions
and then choose to erase and rewrite them later) or even CD-MRW (so
that you can write back to the disc as if it were a normal drive).
Perhaps someone has delivered one or the other of these things since I
last checked.

Paul

[Claudio Grondi]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:[color=blue]
> Claudio Grondi schrieb:
>[color=green]
>> I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a
>> complete operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 -
>> 60M booting directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).
>>
>> This approach appears to me very Pythonic, so it were a nice thing to
>> have a full featured Puppy Linux Live CD prepared for Python programming.
>>
>> Have someone already breed a Python Puppy and is so kind to share a
>> copy of it with me?[/color]
>
>
> AFAIK Knoppix comes with python. And lots of other stuff.
>
> Diez[/color]
Knoppix failed to access my USB ports and it comes with Python 2.3 and I
am using already Python 2.4.2 .

Claudio

[Claudio Grondi]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Paul Boddie wrote:[color=blue]
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a complete
>>operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 - 60M booting
>>directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).[/color]
>
>
> This isn't really Python-related, but I thought that Puppy Linux would
> be even more interesting if it could use CD-RW media wisely (so that
> you don't fill up a CD-R disc and then have to burn the image and the
> latest contents onto another one, but can instead create new sessions
> and then choose to erase and rewrite them later) or even CD-MRW (so
> that you can write back to the disc as if it were a normal drive).
> Perhaps someone has delivered one or the other of these things since I
> last checked.
>
> Paul[/color]
I know, that the latest Puppy Linux can save done settings to the CD-RW
using multisessions (but it didn't work with my DVD drive as I tried it,
maybe LG is a not a very common one, so it is not supported), but sure
it would be better if it could utilize InCD format or DVD RAMs (I
haven't tried it that way yet - at least I haven't read yet, that it
supports such kind of things). Check out http://puptrix.org for derived
packages (as GrafPup) if you are interested in latest achievements.
Puppy Linux should be also able to install new packages and it seems,
that GrafPup download site provides Python 2.4.2
( ftp://grafpup.com/packages/python-2.4r2.tar.gz ) for its version of
Puppy Linux.

As a Linux newbie I am not eager to try it all myself from the very
beginning. I tried already Gentoo Linux (too difficult to setup for a
beginner), Suse Linux (Python 2.4.1 but on a Live CD without Tkinter),
Knoppix (Python 2.3 with Tkinter, but failed to access my USB port),
Pollix (failed to start at all). In the past I have evaluated Mandrake
(now Mandriva) which compared to Suse and Debian was my favorite Linux
distro, but I don't like the fact they went more commercial, so I have
left it currently out from consideration. On the list of Linux distros
still to check out is Ubuntu.
Puppy Linux is much faster than any other Linux distro, because of
holding of all of the available packages in RAM what makes it very
interesting for me (having 3 GByte of RAM on my system).

From this experience I am fascinated by Puppy Linux as an OS in a
similar way as I was evaluating Python as a programming language, so I
have got the feeling they belong somehow together.

I am in the process of migrating my Python related programming
activities from Windows to Linux, so what I want from a Linux
distribution is, that I can use Python 2.4.2 with all its sattelite
modules on it as I do it now on Windows making Python a kind of
interface to the OS. This way I can start to work on Linux knowing
nothing (or at least not much) about Linux itself using it only for
Python scripting (and then learn step by step the Linux specifics if
necessary - I have already some very old and very basic Unix skills for
the beginning as e.g. knowing about ls -l and the necessity of mounting
of drives).
Currently it seems, that the answer is a full installation of Suse
Linux, but I would be much happier with Puppy Linux if it would provide
a Python scripting development environment out of the box.

I can imagine, that a release of an as .iso file downloadable Puppy
Python Linux Live CD along with a Python release can be a very
interesting option from a point of view of providing an easy way for
evaluating the power of Python scripting language.

Claudio

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

> Knoppix failed to access my USB ports and it comes with Python 2.3 and I[color=blue]
> am using already Python 2.4.2 .[/color]

In the current c't there is an article how to customize knoppicilin, the
knoppix-based antivirus distribution. I didn't have a deeper look so far,
but I'm eager to see if that couldn't be used to create special
distriubutions for e.g. gnome-meeting based vid-conferencing, or a
python-super-developer-distribution :)
--
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch

[Martin Christensen]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

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Hash: SHA1
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>> "Diez" == Diez B Roggisch <deets.nospaaam @web.de> writes:[/color][/color][/color]
Diez> In the current c't there is an article how to customize
Diez> knoppicilin, the knoppix-based antivirus distribution. I didn't
Diez> have a deeper look so far, but I'm eager to see if that couldn't
Diez> be used to create special distriubutions for e.g. gnome-meeting
Diez> based vid-conferencing, or a python-super-developer-distribution
Diez> :)

I'll shortly be announcing the public availability of Pynux... :-)

Seriously, though, I can see the sense in having 'live' CD distros
specialised for antivirus (or general rescue/sysadmin work), video
conferencing and stuff like that, but what would be the reasoning for
a Python specific distro, or indeed any special development needs? To
me it seems that a general-purpose distro with whatever development
tools the individual programmer needs is going to be a perfect fit.
Any specialised development distro sounds like specialisation for its
own sake to me.

Martin
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[Magnus Lycka]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Claudio Grondi wrote:[color=blue]
> I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a complete
> operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 - 60M booting
> directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).
>
> This approach appears to me very Pythonic, so it were a nice thing to
> have a full featured Puppy Linux Live CD prepared for Python programming.
>
> Have someone already breed a Python Puppy and is so kind to share a copy
> of it with me?[/color]

I think the Ubuntu Live CD has a lot of Python thingies, but it's
much bigger than 50-60MB. That hardly matters if you intend to use
a CD, but it might not fit on a cheap USB memory...

[Claudio Grondi]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Magnus Lycka wrote:[color=blue]
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I have just discovered the existance of Puppy Linux which is a
>> complete operating system with a suite of GUI apps, only about 50 -
>> 60M booting directly off the CDROM ( http://www.puppylinux.org ).
>>
>> This approach appears to me very Pythonic, so it were a nice thing to
>> have a full featured Puppy Linux Live CD prepared for Python programming.
>>
>> Have someone already breed a Python Puppy and is so kind to share a
>> copy of it with me?[/color]
>
>
> I think the Ubuntu Live CD has a lot of Python thingies, but it's
> much bigger than 50-60MB. That hardly matters if you intend to use
> a CD, but it might not fit on a cheap USB memory...[/color]

Ubuntu Live CD comes directly with Python 2.4.2. Ubuntu was able to use
mainboards (ASUS P4P800-SE) onboard sound out of the box and to write
files to USB stick. I have some trouble to understand how Python works
on it because it is not organized as on Windows (e.g. there is no [Lib]
directory under the [Python2.4] one) and I failed to start Idle (can't
access idlelib) after a longer time of searching for a file to start
it. At least the Python command line runs when I type \>python in the
console window and some of the Tkinter examples run too.
Compared to Suse installation DVD full packed with data, Ubuntu Linux is
limited to a CD - I don't have enough experience to tell if it good or
bad, but it seems, that Ubuntu supports less software packages then
Suse. Does it matter, when one has the option to install software by
compiling source code distributions?

Currently Ubuntu is my favorite, because it seems to be at the moment
the only Linux distribution supporting already Python 2.4.2 out of the
box, so maybe it is worth to dig deeper into it for the purpose of
installing it on a harddrive. Anyone here who uses Ubuntu for developing
larger Python projects?

Inbetween I was also told
(http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4612), that Python for
Puppy Linux "is available in the grafpup package repositories (try
googling grafpup). Install it as an alien package using pupget.", so
there seems to be Python 2.4.2
(ftp://grafpup.com/packages/python-2.4r2.tar.gz) support in Puppy Linux.

But that is not what I was looking for - it can only serve as a starting
point for building a Python Puppy Live CD/DVD distribution myself.
Probably I have much to try and learn before I can start on it and
succeed, so "I want a Python Puppy" is still open for beeing provided.

My vision is to have a Python Puppy DVD, i.e. 4 GByte of files with the
entire Python environment and another software tools I could use on
almost any PC to continue work on Python projects stored on an USB
stick. This would make my programming environment mobile without the
need of carrying a notebook/laptop with me (a DVD and a USB stick should
be enough to be mobile in the todays world, where it is so easy to get
access to a PC).

I can only hardly believe, that there is none Puppy Linux derived
Python distribution with most of the important extension modules already
available out of the box completed to a nice package with Gimp,
Firefox/Thunderbird, Open Office, etc., so please let me know about it
helping this way to avoid reinventing the wheel.

I am surprized, that the Puppy kind of Linux distribution seems not to
be popular among the users of comp.lang.pytho n, so maybe someone can
explain to me why it is that way to calm down my fascination before I
put too much efforts into it in order to discover, that it is maybe a
dead end.

Claudio

[Paul Rubin]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Claudio Grondi <claudio.grondi @freenet.de> writes:[color=blue]
> Currently Ubuntu is my favorite, because it seems to be at the moment
> the only Linux distribution supporting already Python 2.4.2 out of the
> box,[/color]

Are you seriously saying that whatever distro came out most recently
(and therefore have the latest Python version) gets to be your
favorite? You're going to have to change favorites practically every
week.

I'm currently using Fedora Core 4 which comes with Python 2.4.1. I
won't exactly say FC4 is my favorite, but it's what I'm used to. I've
also been wanting to check out Ubuntu and Gentoo, but slight
coincidences of the release schedule shouldn't be that big a deal in
choosing between them.

[Claudio Grondi]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Paul Rubin wrote:[color=blue]
> Claudio Grondi <claudio.grondi @freenet.de> writes:
>[color=green]
>>Currently Ubuntu is my favorite, because it seems to be at the moment
>>the only Linux distribution supporting already Python 2.4.2 out of the
>>box,[/color]
>
>
> Are you seriously saying that whatever distro came out most recently
> (and therefore have the latest Python version) gets to be your
> favorite? You're going to have to change favorites practically every
> week.[/color]
[color=blue]
>
> I'm currently using Fedora Core 4 which comes with Python 2.4.1. I
> won't exactly say FC4 is my favorite, but it's what I'm used to. I've
> also been wanting to check out Ubuntu and Gentoo, but slight
> coincidences of the release schedule shouldn't be that big a deal in
> choosing between them.[/color]

I have currently no evidence at hand to present here, but I mean, that
which Python version is distributed is not necessary depending on the
release date of the Linux distribution.

Yes, I am seriously saying, that at the moment, the Linux distro which
gives me Python 2.4.2 and compatibility with my current machine out of
the box is what I will start with. Beeing a Linux greenhorn this is a
very practical way to keep the decision process as short as possible.
There are in my eyes some more reasons speaking for Ubuntu, but they are
currently secondary and therefore not worth to mention.

Gentoo and Ubuntu address very different needs, so it should be quite
easy to choose between them - as I understand it currently it is that
way: if you are a Linux expert and want to tune your Linux distribution
easily to own needs and machine go for Gentoo, if you like the idea of
"Linux for Human Beings" and are ready to get involved go for Ubuntu.

I personally would be very happy to start with a Python Puppy Linux,
because I love the idea to have all the applications I need available
directly in RAM, but is seems that there is no distro which gives this
out of the box to me and there is no support from Python experts for it
as I conclude from (missing any really useful) postings to this thread
up to now (except my own replies ;-).

Probably best would be to wait until PyPy or similar efforts result in a
Python Operating System with Tk GUI for Desktop and Idle as console,
so that there will be no need to decide which OS to choose, but I don't
like to wait that long.

Claudio

[Magnus Lycka]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Claudio Grondi wrote:[color=blue]
> I have some trouble to understand how Python works
> on it because it is not organized as on Windows (e.g. there is no [Lib]
> directory under the [Python2.4] one)[/color]

I guess it's at /usr/lib/python2.4

It's Windows which is odd by the way... Linux is organized in a way
which is very similar to most other platforms where Python can be
used.
[color=blue]
> and I failed to start Idle (can't
> access idlelib) after a longer time of searching for a file to start
> it. At least the Python command line runs when I type \>python in the
> console window and some of the Tkinter examples run too.[/color]

I need more feedback to answer this. Doesn't it work to run this
from a terminal window?

/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/idle/idle.py
[color=blue]
> Compared to Suse installation DVD full packed with data, Ubuntu Linux is
> limited to a CD - I don't have enough experience to tell if it good or
> bad, but it seems, that Ubuntu supports less software packages then
> Suse. Does it matter, when one has the option to install software by
> compiling source code distributions?[/color]

If you use the normal hard disk install, you'll be able to get a lot
of software from the net, it you have an internet connection that can
deal with moderate software downloads.
[color=blue]
> Currently Ubuntu is my favorite, because it seems to be at the moment
> the only Linux distribution supporting already Python 2.4.2 out of the
> box, so maybe it is worth to dig deeper into it for the purpose of
> installing it on a harddrive. Anyone here who uses Ubuntu for developing
> larger Python projects?[/color]

Well, I do my big projects at work, using mainly Red Hat, but I use
Ubuntu at home, and would prefer that here to if I had a choice.
[color=blue]
> Probably I have much to try and learn before I can start on it and
> succeed, so "I want a Python Puppy" is still open for beeing provided.[/color]

I'd try Ubuntu for a while...

[Magnus Lycka]

Re: I want a Python Puppy !

Paul Rubin wrote:[color=blue]
> Are you seriously saying that whatever distro came out most recently
> (and therefore have the latest Python version) gets to be your
> favorite? You're going to have to change favorites practically every
> week.[/color]

Python is very high on the agenda for the Ubuntu project, and
*that* does matter.