Python & unicode

[Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non]

Re: Python & unicode

Hi !

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> import math
>>> π = math.pi[/color][/color][/color]


Good sample ! I like too : e=mc²

[Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non t]

Re: Python & unicode

;o)


Python ==. limits ,===>
\________/

[Serge Orlov]

Re: Python & unicode

Leif K-Brooks wrote:[color=blue]
> Serge.Orlov@gma il.com wrote:[color=green]
> > So is the support of Unicode in virtually every computer language
> > because they don't support ... digits except 0..9.[/color]
>
> Hex digits aren't 0..9.
>[/color]

You're right, I forgot about hex. But that's boring :) How about Hebrew
numerals which are present in Unicode?

Serge.

[Serge Orlov]

Re: Python & unicode

Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite
perpétuelle. wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi !
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>> It is a least-common-denominator argument, not a "this is better"[/color][/color]
> argument.
>
> I understand, but I have a feeling of attempt at hegemony. Is[/color]
english[color=blue]
> language really least-common-denominator for a russian who writes[/color]
into[color=blue]
> cyrillic, or not anglophone chinese?[/color]

I don't know about Chinese but English *is* the least common
denominator for native Russian software developers, there are a lot of
reasons for that:

- to switch between Russian keyboard layout and English keyboard you
need to press a switch key or usually even two keys (at the same time).
Since language syntax and library calls are in English you have to
switch often. Very often you forget what is the current keyboard layout
and start typing in wrong one and you have to delete the garbage, hit
switch key and type it again. If it happens ten times every ten minutes
it will drive you crazy.

- Most of native Russian developers graduated from universities or
institutes. They attended hundreds of hours of math and physics
classes. All these classes use latin notation.

- Any serious local sw development job application mentions "Technical
English" as requirement. It means you're expected to read technical
documents in English.

- At the same time majority of native Russians developers do not speak
English very well and they feel they need more English practice. Using
English identifiers is a chance to practice while you work.

- The amount of useful information in English is much greater than in
Russian, thanks to Internet.

Surprised? :)

Serge.

[P@draigBrady.com]

Re: Python & unicode

Scott David Daniels wrote:[color=blue]
> P@draigBrady.co m wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Because the coding is only supported in string literals.
>> But I'm not sure exactly why.[/color]
>
> The why is the same as why we write in English on this newsgroup.
> Not because English is better, but because that leaves a single
> language for everyone to use to communicate in.[/color]

Fair enough. Though people can communicate in other languages
if they want, or have specific newsgroups for other languages.
[color=blue]
> If you allow
> non-ASCII characters in symbol names, your source code will be
> unviewable (and uneditable) for people with ASCII-only terminals,
> never mind how comprehensible it might otherwise be.[/color]

So how does one edit non ascii string literals at the moment?
[color=blue]
> It is a
> least-common-denominator argument, not a "this is better"
> argument.[/color]

If one edited the whole file in the specified coding
then one wouldn't have to switch editing modes when
editing strings which is a real pain.

--
Pádraig Brady - http://www.pixelbeat.org
--

[Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non t]

Re: Python & unicode

Hi !

Sorry, but I think that, for russians, english is an *add-on*, and not a
common-denominator.
English is the most known language, but it is not common. It is the same
difference as between co-operation and colonization.

Have a good day
--
Michel Claveau

[Scott David Daniels]

Re: Python & unicode

P@draigBrady.co m wrote:[color=blue]
> Scott David Daniels wrote:[color=green]
>> If you allow
>> non-ASCII characters in symbol names, your source code will be
>> unviewable (and uneditable) for people with ASCII-only terminals,
>> never mind how comprehensible it might otherwise be.[/color]
>
> So how does one edit non ascii string literals at the moment?[/color]

Generally by using editors that leave bytes alone if they cannot
be understood. For many applications where I'll work on a program,
I don't need to read the strings, but rather the code that uses
those strings. I am at a disadvantage if I cannot understand the
derivation of the names, no doubt, but at least I know when two
letters are different, and what tokens are distinct.
[color=blue]
> If one edited the whole file in the specified coding
> then one wouldn't have to switch editing modes when
> editing strings which is a real pain.
>[/color]
No question, but ASCII is available as a subset for many encodings.
As you might note, my conception is that I might be helping on a
program with many programmers. Python spent a lot of effort to
avoid favoring a character set as much as possible, while still
being a medium for sharing code.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels@A cm.Org

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

Re: Python & unicode

In <41e458a9$0$709 0$8fcfb975@news .wanadoo.fr>, Michel Claveau -
abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle. wrote:
[color=blue]
> I understand, but I have a feeling of attempt at hegemony. Is english
> language really least-common-denominator for a russian who writes into
> cyrillic, or not anglophone chinese?
>
> And, did you think of klingons?[/color]

Klingons don't do Python, they hack ('n slash) in var'aq:

http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/varaq/

SCNR,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch

[Serge Orlov]

Re: Python &amp; unicode

Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite
perpétuelle. wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi !
>
> Sorry, but I think that, for russians, english is an *add-on*,
> and not a common-denominator.[/color]

You miss the point, programs are not English writings, they are written
in computer languages using libraries with English identifiers. On the
other hand comments and documentation are text. And Russian programmers
do write Russian comments in programs.
I've seen that a lot of times. On the other hand I've never seen any
serious program written with Russian identifiers. Sure such programs
may exist but my point is that they are very rare. That makes English
the language of choice for Russian programmers. I'm not against the
ability to write identifiers in my native Russian language, I don't
mind it. I'm just trying to get the message across that Russian
programmers are not dying for such feature and almost all of them don't
use such feature in languages that permit Unicode identifiers.
[color=blue]
> English is the most known language, but it is not common. It is
> the same difference as between co-operation and colonization.[/color]

When I hear "It's the same difference as ..." it raises a red flag in
my mind. Often, fine words have no connection to the subject. I can say
that it's the same difference as between ability to drive a car and
ability to walk. The car doesn't own you ;)

Serge.