why python is slower than java?

**Jon Perez** · Jul 18 '05, 05:33 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

First of all, I really really really love Python but unlike
the other people posting on this thread I am not allergic
to criticisms of python and I feel the attitude of
some on this list is way too defensive and actually
works against the outside perception of the language.
(OTOH, what I saw on this thread is still considered mild,
you should see those LISPers defend their language! :-D )

Anyway, on to the topic at hand. I actually don't
believe python is slower than java. But truth to
tell, the answer can never be a simple 'one is faster
than the other'.

In the cases where Python is slower than Java, it
is because Java is JIT-compiled whereas Python by
default is bytecode-interpreted (unless you use Psyco).

In the cases where Python is faster than Java, it
is because much of Python's core and library functionality
is actually coded very efficiently in C, and said
code path is using much of this functionality.

When it comes to the language proper, Java is just
way more primitive than Python, and considering
that the speed of both will be *** of roughly the same
order ***, I'll take Python any day.

The fact that you can much more easily use and write
Python C extensions (still not exactly a picnic though)
than JNI ones is yet another speed-related thing in
favor of Python over Java.

Maurice LING wrote:[color=blue]
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?
>
> maurice[/color]

**Jon Perez** · Jul 18 '05, 05:33 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

Maurice LING wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've already said the following and was not noticed:
>
> 1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.[/color]

I see no reason why disk I/O bound operations should
be slower in Python than in Java. It's the same
C API calls underneath and very little bytecode
interpretation is going on when it is being done.

**Dan Perl** · Jul 18 '05, 05:34 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

Maurice,

As a member of this group, I regret the comments that you got from
"Y2KYZFR1", whatever his name is and whatever his real email address is.
Please do not let it affect you and please do not let it affect your view of
the group in general.

Dan

"Y2KYZFR1" <jarrodhroberso n@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c718a6cf.0 411101051.3c893 5fd@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Maurice LING <mauriceling@ac m.org> wrote in message
> news:<mailman.6 022.1099784038. 5135.python-list@python.org >...[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >
>> > dude that "comparisio n" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!![/color]
>>
>> I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not
>> exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...
>>
>> I suppose more experienced people in this list can agree that certain
>> decisions made can be almost an edict. So, there is a re-building
>> process every now and then, hopefully to by-pass such edicts. Python
>> itself is already such an example.
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use![/color]
>>
>> Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and
>> deprecated?[/color]
>
> yes it has, in both cases : proof again that you don't understand
> enough to comprehend why your question is irrelevant, and that you
> can't understand the answer as such.
>
> you can't compare something from so many years ago to each other and
> then EXTRAPOLATE the results to NOW.
>
> It would be like comparing a 1965 Mustang to a 1965 Corvette and then
> coming to the conclusion that you could EXTRAPLATE those results to
> compare the 2005 models. Just completely lacking in any understanding
> of scientific theory.
>[color=green]
>> Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the
>> Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by
>> bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design
>> decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I
>> don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > you are just trolling or your don't know enough to understand the
>> > answer to your question which is way to vague to be answered, as there
>> > is no real correct answer.[/color]
>>
>> Certainly I do not have 15 PhDs in computer science or computating
>> mathematics.... .. I suppose there are some syntax error in your
>> statement to allow me to parse it completely. "too vague", not "to
>> vague".[/color]
>
> an this just proves that YOU are irrelvant also, go troll somewhere
> else. PLONK
>[color=green]
>> Thanks
>> maurice[/color][/color]

**developerchina@gmail.com** · Jul 18 '05, 06:15 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

hehe
Asun Friere wrote:[color=blue]
> aleaxit@yahoo.c om (Alex Martelli) wrote in message[/color]
news:<1gmueqr.1 hs16lxfjegpuN%a leaxit@yahoo.co m>...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > [A]sking for tolerance and patience
> > against _rude_ newbies which barge in with shrill, mostly[/color][/color]
unjustified,[color=blue][color=green]
> > repetitious complaints, is, I think, a rather far-fetched request.[/color]
>
> That request is in no way far-fetched if made to someone of great
> personal maturity and character. Rudeness is hardly ever an[/color]
effective[color=blue]
> response to rudeness. So I'll make it: "Please be tolerant and
> patient of newbies, _especially_ the rude ones." :p Remember it's[/color]
the[color=blue]
> audience, not merely the opponent you are addressing.
>
> Be that as it may, Maurice's original question, while arguably[/color]
founded[color=blue]
> upon a false presumption, was in no way rude. Nor were his[/color]
subsequent[color=blue]
> posts (unless I missed one). The helpfulness of this newgroup should
> be (and was) one of python's selling points. Certainly I learned[/color]
much[color=blue]
> here, and especially from your posts Alex, when I first started using
> the language.[/color]

**developerchina@gmail.com** · Jul 18 '05, 06:15 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

hehe
Asun Friere wrote:[color=blue]
> aleaxit@yahoo.c om (Alex Martelli) wrote in message[/color]
news:<1gmueqr.1 hs16lxfjegpuN%a leaxit@yahoo.co m>...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > [A]sking for tolerance and patience
> > against _rude_ newbies which barge in with shrill, mostly[/color][/color]
unjustified,[color=blue][color=green]
> > repetitious complaints, is, I think, a rather far-fetched request.[/color]
>
> That request is in no way far-fetched if made to someone of great
> personal maturity and character. Rudeness is hardly ever an[/color]
effective[color=blue]
> response to rudeness. So I'll make it: "Please be tolerant and
> patient of newbies, _especially_ the rude ones." :p Remember it's[/color]
the[color=blue]
> audience, not merely the opponent you are addressing.
>
> Be that as it may, Maurice's original question, while arguably[/color]
founded[color=blue]
> upon a false presumption, was in no way rude. Nor were his[/color]
subsequent[color=blue]
> posts (unless I missed one). The helpfulness of this newgroup should
> be (and was) one of python's selling points. Certainly I learned[/color]
much[color=blue]
> here, and especially from your posts Alex, when I first started using
> the language.[/color]

**fuzzylollipop** · Jul 18 '05, 06:23 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

yeah, but a lie unanswered by the truth becomes the truth.

you state opinon as fact and someone comes along reads your statement
that Python is so much slower and believes it is true because there is
no disententing voice to say, wait just a sec, this guy is clueless and
has no idea what he is talking about and here is why.

learn how to ask questions instead of stateing opinions as fact and you
might get a better response.

if you had said, is Python really as slow vs Java as these 3 year old
benchmarks seem to suggest, and then post what your own findings were
and that might prove DISCUSSION instead of posting in a Trolling sort
of way.

No matter how many times you say you are not trolling and continue to
post trolling style posts will make it true.

**Jeremy Bowers** · Jul 18 '05, 06:24 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:01:47 -0800, fuzzylollipop wrote:
[color=blue]
> yeah, but a lie unanswered by the truth becomes the truth.[/color]

You know, it's bad enough that somebody starts this thread anew about
every two months anyhow, do you really have to try to resurrect dead ones?

Be patient and I'm sure you'll have many more opportunities to post this
general thought in a more timely fashion in the all-too-near future.

**JanC** · Jul 18 '05, 06:26 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

Eric S. Johansson schreef:
[color=blue]
> nothing would compel anyone to pay anything. But I could see eventually
> folks being rated on whether or not they do pay. If you've got someone
> who's always asking time-consuming questions and not paying anything, it
> would be totally appropriate to filter out that person.[/color]

That person might be a student in some third-world country...

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

**Andrew Dalke** · Jul 18 '05, 06:27 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

JanC:[color=blue]
> That person might be a student in some third-world country...[/color]

Then think of the extra incentive to provide useful answers.

Also, Eric had pointed out that payment included "money,
sex, chocolate" and other non-monetary possibilities.

Personally I think it'll be hard to put a monetary micropayment
into place because at that level those other factors have at
least a comparable impact.

Andrew
dalke@dalkescie ntific.com

**JanC** · Jul 18 '05, 06:29 PM

Re: why python is slower than java?

Andrew Dalke schreef:
[color=blue]
> Then think of the extra incentive to provide useful answers.
>
> Also, Eric had pointed out that payment included "money,
> sex, chocolate" and other non-monetary possibilities.
>
> Personally I think it'll be hard to put a monetary micropayment
> into place because at that level those other factors have at
> least a comparable impact.[/color]

Heh, payment to an American --> equivalent American price for Belgian
chocolate --> Belgian price for Belgian chocolate --> this will be very
cheap for me and the other Belgians around here... ;-)

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

why python is slower than java?

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