ruby on rails ... python on ?

[flab ba]

The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
/also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
Python world that is comparable.

-Flab

[Peter Hansen]

OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... pythonon ?)

flab ba wrote:[color=blue]
> The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
> RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
> /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> Python world that is comparable.[/color]

I googled for that to learn about it. Saw a note in the home page
of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
working!

"Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."

It's Trac.

Which is implemented in Python. ;-)

I guess that justifies the term "pragmatic" above, anyway.

(I haven't yet learned much about Rails, unfortunately, since
the web site is excrutiatingly slow right now. Maybe it will
be faster another time...)

To the OP: there are several Python "applicatio n frameworks"
which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their
names aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
would probably turn up at least one of them.

-Peter

[Josiah Carlson]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...python on ?)


Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp. com> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> flab ba wrote:[color=green]
> > The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
> > RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
> > /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> > Python world that is comparable.[/color]
>
> I googled for that to learn about it. Saw a note in the home page
> of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
> working!
>
> "Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
> what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."
>
> It's Trac.[/color]

You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
(www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.

- Josiah

[Ron Stephens]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python on ?)

""I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
would probably turn up at least one of them.""

Hmm, indeed, that search practically screamed Peak, the Python
Enterprise Application Kit, which looks fascinating at
http://peak.telecommunity.com/ . Does anyone have any experience with
PEAK or knowledge about it?

Ron Stephens

[Peter Hansen]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... pythonon ?)

Josiah Carlson wrote:[color=blue]
> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.[/color]

Spiffy indeed!

(I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)

[flab ba]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python on ?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp. com> wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> flab ba wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
>> > RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
>> > /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
>> > Python world that is comparable.[/color]
>>
>> I googled for that to learn about it. Saw a note in the home page
>> of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
>> working!
>>
>> "Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
>> what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."
>>
>> It's Trac.[/color]
>
> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
>
> - Josiah[/color]

You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.

I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
site - which is done in Quixote.

-Alex

[Josiah Carlson]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...python on ?)


Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp. com> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Josiah Carlson wrote:[color=green]
> > You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> > (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.[/color]
>
> Spiffy indeed!
>
> (I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
> they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)[/color]

This is what I can tell (in the 5 minutes reading their web sites):

1. Trac was implemented when they started RubyOnRails, so they used it
because it fit with what they were doing.
2. RubyOnRails was developed.
3. Someone implemented Basecamp using RubyOnRails as a framework.

You can't really build an application before you build a framework, and
switching project management is, from what I hear, quite a bitch.

- Josiah

[flab ba]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python on ?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:36:29 -0800, Ron Stephens wrote:
[color=blue]
> ""I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
> would probably turn up at least one of them.""
>
> Hmm, indeed, that search practically screamed Peak, the Python
> Enterprise Application Kit, which looks fascinating at
> http://peak.telecommunity.com/ . Does anyone have any experience with
> PEAK or knowledge about it?
>
> Ron Stephens[/color]

Umm, Peak and Rails don't even look remotely similar in what they try to
accomplish.

-Flab

[Josiah Carlson]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails... python on ?)


flab ba <flab@large.net > wrote:[color=blue]
>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>[color=green]
> > You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> > (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
> >
> > - Josiah[/color]
>
> You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
> Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
> the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.
>
> I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
> site - which is done in Quixote.[/color]

I have no experience with any web development frameworks, so have little
to say in regards to them. I hope that Quixote, or whichever framework
you choose, ends up being the right choice for you.

- Josiah

[Peter Hansen]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... pythonon ?)

Josiah Carlson wrote:[color=blue]
> Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp. com> wrote:[color=green]
>>(I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
>>they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)[/color]
>
> This is what I can tell (in the 5 minutes reading their web sites):
>
> 1. Trac was implemented when they started RubyOnRails, so they used it
> because it fit with what they were doing.
> 2. RubyOnRails was developed.
> 3. Someone implemented Basecamp using RubyOnRails as a framework.
>
> You can't really build an application before you build a framework, and
> switching project management is, from what I hear, quite a bitch.[/color]

You're turning this into a mystery then. :-) The announcement
that they "have finally taken the step to get a real bug tracker"
came on October 11, 2004. All the issues in it were added recently.

If they developed RubyOnRails since then, these guys are the
fastest damn programmers on the planet. I gotta get me some
of that Ruby! ;-)

-Peter

[Bengt Richter]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python on ?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:48:51 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp. com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Josiah Carlson wrote:[color=green]
>> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
>> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.[/color]
>
>Spiffy indeed![/color]
It would have to be, to warrant

http://www.basecamphq.com/terms.html

;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter

[A.M. Kuchling]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python on ?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:43:39 -0700,
flab ba <flab@large.net > wrote:[color=blue]
> I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
> site - which is done in Quixote.[/color]

The line about graphic design is there because PTL will be alien to graphic
designers, so if your HTML is very elaborate and requires lots of tweaking,
your standard HTML author will be confused. However, in lots of cases you
can just write plain vanilla HTML, being sure to put DIV elements and ID
attributes in the right places, and then style the pages with CSS. Quixote
is betting that pure HTML + CSS is the way of the future.

(I don't like the current MX style sheet either, but that's nothing to
do with Quixote.)

--amk

[Richard Blackwood]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...python on ?)

<SNIP>
[color=blue]
>
>
> To the OP: there are several Python "applicatio n frameworks"
> which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
> I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their
> names aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
> I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
> would probably turn up at least one of them.
>
> -Peter[/color]

Do you mean Zope?

[Richard Blackwood]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby onrails ... python on ?)

Josiah Carlson wrote:
[color=blue]
>flab ba <flab@large.net > wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
>>>(www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
>>>
>>> - Josiah
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
>>Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
>>the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.
>>
>>I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
>>site - which is done in Quixote.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>I have no experience with any web development frameworks, so have little
>to say in regards to them. I hope that Quixote, or whichever framework
>you choose, ends up being the right choice for you.
>
> - Josiah
>
>
>[/color]
ZOPE!!!

[Alex Martelli]

Re: OT: Ruby programmers use Python

A.M. Kuchling <amk@amk.ca> wrote:
...[color=blue]
> can just write plain vanilla HTML, being sure to put DIV elements and ID
> attributes in the right places, and then style the pages with CSS. Quixote
> is betting that pure HTML + CSS is the way of the future.[/color]

Sounds like a pretty safe bet to me, in general terms. I'm not quite
sure how fully a 'plain vanilla HTML' page can be controlled,
looks-wise, with CSS only, but no doubt as generations of CSS succeed
each other the trend is up (though I don't think it's asymptotically
going to 100%, but that's a different issue;-).


Alex