Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

[Carlos Ribeiro]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Alex,

Regarding the slash-backslash problem... I found the bug, it was not
hard, after all.

The problem was a side effect of the way DrPython builds some of its
environment variables, and the handling of double slashes in file
names.

At startup DrPython tries to detect the homedir. The code tries some
alternatives; if the envvars or the tilde options are not available,
and if the program is running under Win32, then it starts with "c:\".

A little bit later, it adds new path components to the path. Guess
what happens? The home dir becomes: "c:\\drpython". ..

....but double slashes are invalid at that particular position. It
seems to be a side effect of the way network shares are named, of
course, although I fail to see why it should cause a problem in this
particular example. It's no problem if additional slashes are located
elsewhere into the middle of the path name.

I've fixed it and I'll send the fix to the DrPython guys. In fact, it
solved *all* issues I had with DrPython, including some strange
lockups that would last for minutes.

--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro@gmai l.com
mail: carribeiro@yaho o.com

[Istvan Albert]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>>My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
>>and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
> or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
> the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
> tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.[/color]

It does have project management. EditPlus is my favorite editor
and every time I try another IDE I find the EditPlus does some things
so much better that I'll go back to it.

Istvan

[Thomas Heller]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro@gma il.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants (a
> blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
>
> I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
> doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
> being succesful as I had originally dreamt. I have big constraints on
> what can I do now; money is not an option, and my current machine is
> still useful but it's below par for more advanced stuff. It's my
> fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB and
> Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
> wife and kids :-).[/color]

If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.

You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).

Thomas

[Rob McCrea]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Istvan Albert wrote:[color=blue]
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea[/color]
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning C++,
>>> and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free 30 day trial[/color][/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
>> or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
>> the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
>> tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.[/color]
>
>
> It does have project management. EditPlus is my favorite editor
> and every time I try another IDE I find the EditPlus does some things
> so much better that I'll go back to it.
>
> Istvan[/color]

Yep, I did try to infer the project management when I mentioned I had a
tool for [execute "~thisproject.e xe"], but my message certainly wasn
t well-composed :)

And Carlos, I am very curious about why you took the time to "de-spam"
my e-mail address when you sent the message to the group anyway. But,
no need to satisfy my curiousity :)

Hope you do find something which is right for you, which should be a key
point. To each his own.

Rob

[Rob McCrea]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Thomas Heller wrote:
[color=blue]
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro@gma il.com> writes:[color=green]
>>I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --[/color]
>
> If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
> win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
>
> You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
>
> Thomas[/color]

In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
suggestion I've heard in this topic.

Rob

[Thomas Heller]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Rob McCrea <spaamrobmccrea spremoveam@adel phia.net> writes:
[color=blue]
> Thomas Heller wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro@gma il.com> writes:[color=darkred]
>>>I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --[/color]
>> If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
>> win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
>> You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).
>> Thomas[/color]
>
> In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
> suggestion I've heard in this topic.[/color]

Care to explain?

Thomas

[Peter Hansen]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Rob McCrea wrote:
[color=blue]
> Thomas Heller wrote:[color=green]
>> If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
>> win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
>>
>> You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).[/color]
>
> In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
> suggestion I've heard in this topic.[/color]

As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that. And
I wonder if you would say that if you replaced 2K with XP,
or whether you are just against anyone switching from 98
to something better *if they have to work with Windows*
as Thomas clearly qualified the point.

For the record, switching from 98 to XP has been an incredibly
helpful upgrade in my own case, and I can't think why you
would make the comment you made.

-Peter

[Rob McCrea]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Peter Hansen wrote:
[color=blue]
> Rob McCrea wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Thomas Heller wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If you work on Windows, you should really, really, really upgrade to
>>> win2k, at least - even if it costs some performance on your machine.
>>>
>>> You can even *use* the 'dos-box' then ;-).[/color]
>>
>>
>> In my not-at-all-humble-but-very-honest opinion, that's the worst
>> suggestion I've heard in this topic.[/color]
>
>
> As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that. And
> I wonder if you would say that if you replaced 2K with XP,
> or whether you are just against anyone switching from 98
> to something better *if they have to work with Windows*
> as Thomas clearly qualified the point.
>
> For the record, switching from 98 to XP has been an incredibly
> helpful upgrade in my own case, and I can't think why you
> would make the comment you made.
>
> -Peter[/color]

If moving to anything after win98se, I would (of course?) suggest XP,
but certainly not for a 500mHz with 64MB RAM. "if it costs some
performance" is a huge understatement. And I just hate the allusion of
the console window to anything close to DOS, which I can assume was not
intended and Thomas even tried to avoid.

My reply was biased and not at all "scientific ", as I hoped my "opinion"
line would indicate. Maybe my personal summary is that there are only
two Windows operating systems, 98SE and XPPro; all the others have been
surpassed, IMHO. And let's make no mistake, XP did also (finally)
surpass 98, at a huge (yet affordable and worthwhile) cost to system
resources. -- But 98 is a still a practically needed link between
Windows and DOS.

So you're rather astute, Peter. If he had said XP, and didn't mention
"performanc e" since XP would almost mandate a more-than-modest system
upgrade, and lastly did not mention the term "dos-box" (even if said
facetiously in regards to that certain perspective of mine), I can't
imagine I would have tossed out my two cent.

I suppose I should mention that no disrespect at all was intended
towards Thomas' sound intention, though I found the given implementation
to be "really, really, really" unsatisfactory.

Rock on, peace,
Rob

[Peter Hansen]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Rob McCrea wrote:
[color=blue]
> Peter Hansen wrote:[color=green]
>> As Thomas is, I'm very curious why you would say that.[/color]
>
> If moving to anything after win98se, I would (of course?) suggest XP,
> but certainly not for a 500mHz with 64MB RAM. "if it costs some
> performance" is a huge understatement.[/color]

Granted. :-)
[color=blue]
> Maybe my personal summary is that there are only
> two Windows operating systems, 98SE and XPPro; all the others have been
> surpassed, IMHO.[/color]

Agreed there too. (And while I said XP, I did mean XP Pro.)
[color=blue]
> and lastly did not mention the term "dos-box" (even if said
> facetiously in regards to that certain perspective of mine), I can't
> imagine I would have tossed out my two cent.[/color]

I happen to spend a lot of time at the "DOS" console (actually,
I suppose it's whatever cmd.exe is, not command.com, but for
purposes of this post the differences are largely irrelevant)
and don't find it particular limited. That's almost entirely,
however, because I've learned to depend very little on the tools
that I use, for a number of reasons.

I now work almost exclusively with Scite, Subversion (via
TortoiseSVN), and the console, and I'm at least as productive as
I ever was with a large array of much fancier tools at my
fingertips. But my approach to development is rather different
from that used by those who would prefer a fancy IDE, and as to that:
to each his own. :-)

Cheers,
-Peter

[Hans Nowak]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:
[color=blue]
> I would bite it and Upgrade:
>
> Windows XP is a decent enough OS, IMO, and a bottom-of-the-range PC - which
> is a 1 GHz Athlon with 256 MB RAM, Geforce 2 graphics and 40 GB HDD - can
> often be had at less than USD 200. An entirely different stratosfere, from
> what you are used to - and I bet some of the stability problems with many of
> the IDEs' will disappear too.[/color]

One needs a high-end PC to edit code now?

--
Hans Nowak (hans@zephyrfal con.org)

http://zephyrfalcon.org/

[Jussi Jumppanen]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:45 -0400, Rob McCrea
[color=blue][color=green]
>> My search for a good IDE ended years ago when I started learning
>> C++, and found EditPlus, http://www.editplus.com/ -- $30, free
>> 30 day trial[/color]
>
> Reading your feature list, it seems to be missing project management,
> or to put it simply, to be able to track down what files are part of
> the project without the need to actually walk around the directory
> tree to hunt them down. I'll check it out, nonetheless.[/color]

Take a look at the Zeus for Windows programmers editor:

http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

Zeus has a full project/workspace manager and supports Python, C/C++
and almost any other programming language.

Some of the other programming features include:

+ Code completion and intellisensing
+ Integrated class browser
+ Fully configurable syntax highlighting
+ Seamless FTP editing
+ Integrated version control using the Microsoft Source Code
Control (SCC) interface, including CVS integration.
+ Quick Help context sensitive help engine
+ Fully scriptable using Python

Jussi Jumppanen

http://www.zeusedit.com

[Neil Benn]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Rob McCrea wrote:
[color=blue]
> Thomas Heller wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro@gma il.com> writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --[/color]
>>
>>[/color][/color]
<snip>
Hello,

This is just a small suggestion but one tool that you could
look at is jedit (http://www.jedit.org) - it often gets overlooked
because as it's written in java python people sometimes think it for
Jython only - not true my erstwhile friends! It has a python plug-in
and can do highlighting, project management, feed the dog and more. It
doesn't have a GUI designer but I understand you don't need that?

Another IDE I use is Eclipse, I only use this for Java editing but I
heard somewhere that it has a Python plugin - eclipse is way more
complicated than jedit but if you learn how to use it there are
significant productivity gains (at least with Java!).

Cheers,

Neil

--

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn@cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com

[Alex Martelli]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Daniel Ellison <daniel@syrinx. net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> It *has* to be mentioned, of course, that Vim (http://www.vim.org) has
> nearly every feature mentioned about EditPlus and all the other IDEs,[/color]

Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
interface _is_ a pity.


Alex

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows


"Hans Nowak" <hans@zephyrfal con.org> wrote in message
news:W8L1d.2012 $7d6.1461@fe39. usenetserver.co m...
[color=blue]
> One needs a high-end PC to edit code now?[/color]

Specify "code" - and "high end"; otherwise you do not say much!

Depends;

If, f.ex. - for reasons of corporate culture and productivity - one has to
run Rational Rose RT with C++, the *biggest* box you can possibly lay your
clammy hands on *now* is just about underspec'ed!!!

If plain "Idle" is the tool you prefer, I could get my old Slackware 486/66
with 4 MB RAM down from the loft for you!

[ChrisH]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

I've used pydev and liked it. However, according to the author (the last
time I checked the site), the debugger is still in alpha and needs some
work.


In article <mailman.3351.1 095235443.5135. python-list@python.org >,
benn@cenix-bioscience.com says...[color=blue]
>
> Another IDE I use is Eclipse, I only use this for Java editing but I
> heard somewhere that it has a Python plugin - eclipse is way more
> complicated than jedit but if you learn how to use it there are
> significant productivity gains (at least with Java!).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Neil
>
>[/color]