PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
GUI response-time.

So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
to hoping someone can help...

Objective:
Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
able to also run it on Windows.

Questions:
1) Is it legally possible to do that?
2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?
(I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
executables for other platforms).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you guys have another GUI
toolkit for python, then please by all means...

Thx.

[Alex Martelli]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:
[color=blue]
> I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
> it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
> GUI response-time.
>
> So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
> Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
> comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
> cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
> to hoping someone can help...
>
> Objective:
> Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
> able to also run it on Windows.
>
> Questions:
> 1) Is it legally possible to do that?[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
> 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?[/color]

Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .
[color=blue]
> 3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?[/color]

That's an issue for such tools as py2exe and McMillan's "installer" ; at
this time, I do not believe they support that "cross-packaging"
functionality. However, you surely _can_ package things up with the
distutils, e.g. into a .zip, and copy over and install that package
on Windows; that may not be quite as smooth but it should work fine.
[color=blue]
> (I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
> executables for other platforms).[/color]

In the approach I'd suggest you WOULD develop entirely on Linux, but
the other platforms would first separately install Python and needed
extensions, then install your specific program by unpacking the .zip
and running "python setup.py install" -- not TOO bad, I think.


Alex

[Phil Thompson]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Sunday 02 November 2003 6:52 pm, Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:[color=blue]
> I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
> it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
> GUI response-time.
>
> So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
> Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
> comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
> cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
> to hoping someone can help...
>
> Objective:
> Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
> able to also run it on Windows.
>
> Questions:
> 1) Is it legally possible to do that?[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
> 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?[/color]

Yes - and a license for PyQt.
[color=blue]
> 3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?
> (I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
> executables for other platforms).[/color]

That's a function of the different packaging packages available.

Phil

[Phil Thompson]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Sunday 02 November 2003 7:28 pm, Alex Martelli wrote:[color=blue]
> Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:[color=green]
> > I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
> > it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
> > GUI response-time.
> >
> > So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
> > Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
> > comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
> > cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
> > to hoping someone can help...
> >
> > Objective:
> > Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
> > able to also run it on Windows.
> >
> > Questions:
> > 1) Is it legally possible to do that?[/color]
>
> Yes.
>[color=green]
> > 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?[/color]
>
> Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
> cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
> edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
> PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
> know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .[/color]

No - not Mac.

Phil

[Ken Godee]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

Phil Thompson wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sunday 02 November 2003 7:28 pm, Alex Martelli wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
>>>it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
>>>GUI response-time.
>>>
>>>So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
>>>Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
>>>comparison ). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
>>>cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
>>>to hoping someone can help...
>>>
>>>Objective:
>>> Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
>>>able to also run it on Windows.
>>>
>>>Questions:
>>>1) Is it legally possible to do that?[/color]
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?[/color]
>>
>>Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
>>cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
>>edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
>>PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
>>know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .[/color]
>
>
> No - not Mac.
>
> Phil
>[/color]

Maybe I'm missing something new here.........

But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.

Although I do think BlackAdder is a heck of a deal and would
get you the newest versions for both win and linux.

This is the kind of thing that can scare away someone who
just wants to give it a try to see if they like it.
Once they give it a try, they'll be hooked forever!!!

If I'm wrong, someone let me know.

Hands down, PyQt is the way to go!!!!!!

[John J. Lee]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

Ken Godee <ken@perfect-image.com> writes:
[...][color=blue]
> Maybe I'm missing something new here.........
>
> But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
> from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
> long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
> The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
> ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.[/color]
[...]

Yes: if (you're only using unix/linux) OR (you're happy to stick to Qt
2.x AND you're non-commercial), you don't need a license. They were
talking about using Qt 3 on Windows: in that case, you do need a
license from both TT and Phil (ie. you need to buy BlackAdder, unless
you want to spend large quantities of cash for no reason).


John

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

Thx All

Thx everyone.

I was really surprised by all the quick responses.

Ok, to sum up my understanding.

I can freely develop and distribute python/pyqt/qt programs on my Linux,
but I must make the program freely available, ie. GPLed. No problem there.

On Windows however, I need to buy a license from TrollTech if I want to
use their latest offerings (or I can explain my situation to them and
let them decide) as they no longer offer the non-commercial license for
Windows. Once I get the license, I can make executables that can run on
other Windows w/o that user having to buy a license for qt or pyqt.

Did I miss anything?

The windows part is a little disappointing (I am a college student,
can't really afford the licenses... tho BlackAdder looks good), and I
hope TT will change something in the future. Qt looks great (according
to KDE), and since my program is mainly for Linux, I guess I will head
in that direction.

Again, thx all.

PS. I will also write my situation to TrollTech as they suggested in
their "we no longer support the non-commercial license" webpage and
report their response back here.

[Heike C. Zimmerer]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

Alex Martelli <aleax@aleax.it > writes:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?[/color]
>
> That's an issue for such tools as py2exe and McMillan's "installer" ; at
> this time, I do not believe they support that "cross-packaging"
> functionality.[/color]

I'm doing that with the McMillan installer using wine on Linux and it
works for me.

Heike

[Phil Thompson]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Sunday 02 November 2003 9:15 pm, Ken Godee wrote:[color=blue]
> Phil Thompson wrote:[color=green]
> > On Sunday 02 November 2003 7:28 pm, Alex Martelli wrote:[color=darkred]
> >>Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:
> >>>I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
> >>>it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
> >>>GUI response-time.
> >>>
> >>>So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
> >>>Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
> >>>comparison ). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
> >>>cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
> >>>to hoping someone can help...
> >>>
> >>>Objective:
> >>> Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
> >>>able to also run it on Windows.
> >>>
> >>>Questions:
> >>>1) Is it legally possible to do that?
> >>
> >>Yes.
> >>
> >>>2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
> >>
> >>Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
> >>cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
> >>edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
> >>PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
> >>know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .[/color]
> >
> > No - not Mac.
> >
> > Phil[/color]
>
> Maybe I'm missing something new here.........
>
> But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
> from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
> long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
> The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
> ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.[/color]

Trolltech no longer distribute the non-commercial version of Qt.

I will look at providing an evaluation version of PyQt that works with the
evaluation version of Qt.
[color=blue]
> Although I do think BlackAdder is a heck of a deal and would
> get you the newest versions for both win and linux.
>
> This is the kind of thing that can scare away someone who
> just wants to give it a try to see if they like it.
> Once they give it a try, they'll be hooked forever!!!
>
> If I'm wrong, someone let me know.
>
> Hands down, PyQt is the way to go!!!!!![/color]

I can't disagree with that.

Phil

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

> I'm doing that with the McMillan installer using wine on Linux and it[color=blue]
> works for me.
>
> Heike[/color]

Could you explain how you are doing that? I tried to understand it, but
it seems to be a little above me :(

I already got Wine properly installed, so could you go from there.

Thx,
Vams

[Jim]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On 3 Nov 2003 13:21:56 -0800, codeapocalypse@ msn.com (Brian) wrotf:
[color=blue]
>Alex Martelli <aleax@aleax.it > wrote in message news:<KVcpb.399 539$R32.[color=green]
>>Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?[/color]
>>
>> Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
>> cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
>> edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
>> PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
>> know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .[/color]
>
>Note that according to the BlackAdder page at thecompany.com, you must
>purchase the business edition ($400, currently) if you want the right
>to distribute the run-time elements of it. I'm not sure if the OP
>only wanted to distribute an app for use on his own windows box, or
>distribute his application on the net for use by others.
>
>Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does
>seem like an excellent product, however.[/color]

Could someone please explain this to me. I am still a little confused. I am just about to buy
BlackAdder but want to make sure it will suit my needs.

The question I have is this; if I get the Personal Edition, I know I can't distribute the run-time
elements commercially (sell my programs) but can I in distribute them in a non-commercial way?

In other words, if I write a program, I would like to give it to a few of my friends and hence,
would be distributing the runtime components. I don't sell my programs and neither are my friends.
This is totally non-commercial. Do the runtime components come with BlackAdder Personal? Obviously,
I don't completely understand what the Qt runtime components are.

Programming is a hobby for me and I want to write Win32 GUI programs using PyQt but don't want to be
the only one who can enjoy my programs. Specifically, I am writing a numberology program in Python
that I wrote many years ago using VB6 and want to use PyQt and Qt for the GUI design. It seems that
Qt is the only platform which uses Tab Widgets. I couldn't find anything like that in wxPython (I
need multiple tabs) and Qt has a QTab Widget that works perfectly.

Than you for the help. I really want to get BlackAdder but don't want to buy it just to be
disappointed later.

[Phil Thompson]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Sunday 16 November 2003 8:30 pm, Jim wrote:[color=blue]
> On 3 Nov 2003 13:21:56 -0800, codeapocalypse@ msn.com (Brian) wrotf:[color=green]
> >Alex Martelli <aleax@aleax.it > wrote in message news:<KVcpb.399 539$R32.
> >[color=darkred]
> >>Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:
> >>> 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
> >>
> >> Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
> >> cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
> >> edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
> >> PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
> >> know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .[/color]
> >
> >Note that according to the BlackAdder page at thecompany.com, you must
> >purchase the business edition ($400, currently) if you want the right
> >to distribute the run-time elements of it. I'm not sure if the OP
> >only wanted to distribute an app for use on his own windows box, or
> >distribute his application on the net for use by others.
> >
> >Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does
> >seem like an excellent product, however.[/color]
>
> Could someone please explain this to me. I am still a little confused. I am
> just about to buy BlackAdder but want to make sure it will suit my needs.
>
> The question I have is this; if I get the Personal Edition, I know I can't
> distribute the run-time elements commercially (sell my programs) but can I
> in distribute them in a non-commercial way?[/color]

No. Personal means personal to you.

Phil

[Jim]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:05:06 +0000, Phil Thompson <phil@riverbank computing.co.uk > wrotf:
[color=blue]
>On Sunday 16 November 2003 8:30 pm, Jim wrote:[color=green]
>> On 3 Nov 2003 13:21:56 -0800, codeapocalypse@ msn.com (Brian) wrotf:[color=darkred]
>> >Alex Martelli <aleax@aleax.it > wrote in message news:<KVcpb.399 539$R32.
>> >
>> >>Vamsi Mudrageda wrote:
>> >>> 2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
>> >> cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
>> >> edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
>> >> PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
>> >> know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .
>> >
>> >Note that according to the BlackAdder page at thecompany.com, you must
>> >purchase the business edition ($400, currently) if you want the right
>> >to distribute the run-time elements of it. I'm not sure if the OP
>> >only wanted to distribute an app for use on his own windows box, or
>> >distribute his application on the net for use by others.
>> >
>> >Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does
>> >seem like an excellent product, however.[/color]
>>
>> Could someone please explain this to me. I am still a little confused. I am
>> just about to buy BlackAdder but want to make sure it will suit my needs.
>>
>> The question I have is this; if I get the Personal Edition, I know I can't
>> distribute the run-time elements commercially (sell my programs) but can I
>> in distribute them in a non-commercial way?[/color]
>
>No. Personal means personal to you.
>
>Phil
>[/color]

Thanks for the info, Phil. Can you help me out a little more? Honestly, I have spent the last 3 days
searching the Internet for an answer and can't seem figure this out.

One person (I think is was someone from theKompany) said that there was no functional difference
between the Personal Edition and the Business Edition but I think you just told me the opposite. If
I buy the Personal Edition and use it to write my program, I won't have the capability to run that
software on any other computer besides my own (personal to me) ... not even my wife's computer
downstairs, i.e., so the runtime elements don't come with the Personal Edition - which makes it
functionally different?

theKompany web page says the Business Edition is "for commercial use." From my understanding,
commercial means of or relating to commerce and commerce is buying and selling products and I'm not
selling anything. This is really confusing. I want to honor whatever licence I buy but it doesn't
seem reasonable that I would have to pay $400 so I can give my own program away freely.

Thanks for the insight.

[Bryan]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

>[color=blue]
> Programming is a hobby for me and I want to write Win32 GUI programs using PyQt but don't want to be
> the only one who can enjoy my programs. Specifically, I am writing a numberology program in Python
> that I wrote many years ago using VB6 and want to use PyQt and Qt for the GUI design. It seems that
> Qt is the only platform which uses Tab Widgets. I couldn't find anything like that in wxPython (I
> need multiple tabs) and Qt has a QTab Widget that works perfectly.
>
> Than you for the help. I really want to get BlackAdder but don't want to buy it just to be
> disappointed later.[/color]


jim,

i clicked on the screenshots at the wxPython website and just about every screenshot uses a tab widget and they all look
really nice:

http://www.wxpython.org/screenshots.php

wxWindows/wxPython includes a wxNotepad which is belive is what you are calling a tab widget.

wxPython has wxNotebook, wxNotebook event and wxNotebook Sizer classes. there's an nice example in the wxPython demo
and the source code looks very easy to use. the look and feel is what you would expect on windows.

here's a link to an alphabetical listing of the classes.

http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin27.htm#classref

bryan

[Jim]

Re: PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:24:14 GMT, Bryan <belred1@yahoo. com> wrotf:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> Programming is a hobby for me and I want to write Win32 GUI programs using PyQt but don't want to be
>> the only one who can enjoy my programs. Specifically, I am writing a numberology program in Python
>> that I wrote many years ago using VB6 and want to use PyQt and Qt for the GUI design. It seems that
>> Qt is the only platform which uses Tab Widgets. I couldn't find anything like that in wxPython (I
>> need multiple tabs) and Qt has a QTab Widget that works perfectly.
>>
>> Than you for the help. I really want to get BlackAdder but don't want to buy it just to be
>> disappointed later.[/color]
>
>
>jim,
>
>i clicked on the screenshots at the wxPython website and just about every screenshot uses a tab widget and they all look
>really nice:
>http://www.wxpython.org/screenshots.php
>
>wxWindows/wxPython includes a wxNotepad which is belive is what you are calling a tab widget.
>
>wxPython has wxNotebook, wxNotebook event and wxNotebook Sizer classes. there's an nice example in the wxPython demo
>and the source code looks very easy to use. the look and feel is what you would expect on windows.
>
>here's a link to an alphabetical listing of the classes.
>http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin...7.htm#classref
>
>bryan[/color]

Bryan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I got Boa Constructor up and running and tried to find a Tab type
widget similar to Qt's QTab Widget. I can't find one anywhere but, as you pointed out, there must be
one somewhere because there are some in the sample code on their page.

On the alphabetical listing of the classes page, I did find something called wxTabCtrl. It says that
it represents a tab control, which manages multiple tabs. I guess I just need to figure out where to
find it in Boa or some similar IDE.

I would still prefer Qt and PyQt because it feels so comfortable to work with if I can ever get my
questions answered.

Thanks much, Jim