Cross-posting is good

[mike420@ziplip.com]

David Rush wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> You know I think that this thread has so far set a comp.lang.* record for
> civilitiy in the face of a massively cross-posted language comparison
> thread. I was even wondering if it was going to die a quiet death, too.
>[/color]

When cross-posting, people try to be more responsible, avoiding
making incorrect claims that will not be tolerated by the larger
reader community (like Python is very slow, C is inherently
insecure, Lispers are stupid, etc.) That's why there are usually
more balanced and less bigoted opinions expressed in such threads.

Also, I think cross-posting benefits creative people. E.g.
I noticed that the recent thread "Python syntax in Lisp and
Scheme" tought many Pythonistas and Haskellers about macros,
while many Lispers learned about "yield" and that the
usual examples of macros like UNWIND-PROTECT and its
friend WITH-OPEN-FILE do not have to be macros at all,
if your fingers can manage to type the magic 6 letters.
(OK, the syntax is better without those magic letters, but
it's the only difference. If you want to demostrate the real
power of macros, show code introspection.)

If you only program from 9 to 5, and it's 2 months till your
retirement, and you think you don't need such exposure to new
ideas from other language groups, it's best you killfile
all crossposted articles, or whatever, just don't whine.

OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.

[Joachim Durchholz]

Re: Cross-posting is good

mike420@ziplip. com wrote:[color=blue]
> OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
> mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.[/color]

Having been exposed to C# and Mozart/Oz: what mistakes do you see in
these languages?

Regards,
Jo

[Christian Lynbech]

Re: Cross-posting is good

>>>>> "mike420" == mike420 <mike420@ziplip .com> writes:

mike420> C is inherently insecure

Surely we can agree on this being a fact.

;-)


------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Lynbech | christian #\@ defun #\. dk
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
- petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)

[Alex Martelli]

Re: Cross-posting is good

mike420@ziplip. com wrote:
...[color=blue]
> When cross-posting, people try to be more responsible, avoiding[/color]

My general Usenet experience says otherwise, actually.
[color=blue]
> while many Lispers learned about "yield" and that the
> usual examples of macros like UNWIND-PROTECT and its
> friend WITH-OPEN-FILE do not have to be macros at all,
> if your fingers can manage to type the magic 6 letters.[/color]

Hmmm, which ones? Not 'yield' -- those are just FIVE...
[color=blue]
> OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
> mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.[/color]

You think Paul Graham's ARC is "a big mistake"? Why,
specifically? What specific criticisms are you leveling
at it? And why do you think Graham was lacking in "idea
exposure"? I'm not saying I agree with the underlying
design decisions &c, but I don't understand your point.

I would be curious about just the same questions on
Mozart/Oz, too (which also has the advantage that you
can dowload it and play with it). What's so "bigly
mistaken" about it? Why do you think the researchers
from all over Europe who built it were suffering from
lack of "idea exposure"?

(( C# is basically just a competitive commercial move
against Java and shares most of the latter's defects --
but, again, "lack of idea exposure" doesn't seem to
apply; as for XML++, wasn't it just a research project
to enrich XML with "semantical descriptions".. .? ))


Alex

[Gerrit Holl]

Re: Cross-posting is good

Christian Lynbech wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>>> "mike420" == mike420 <mike420@ziplip .com> writes:[/color][/color]
>
> mike420> C is inherently insecure
>
> Surely we can agree on this being a fact.
>
> ;-)[/color]

Especially because we didn't crosspost to complang.c :)

Gerrit (who didn't crosspost because he uses clpy's m->n gateway)

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[Nick Vargish]

Re: Cross-posting is good

Joachim Durchholz <joachim.durchh olz@web.de> writes:
[color=blue]
> Having been exposed to C# and Mozart/Oz: what mistakes do you see in
> these languages?[/color]

I would love to see an article along the lines of "C# Programming
Considered Harmful". Anyone working on such a thing?

Nick

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y )-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=o bwAcboefstobudi/psh?')

[Tayss]

Re: Cross-posting is good

Alex Martelli <aleax@aleax.it > wrote in message news:<FTyhb.259 987$R32.8415745 @news2.tin.it>. ..[color=blue][color=green]
> > OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
> > mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.[/color]
>
> You think Paul Graham's ARC is "a big mistake"? Why,
> specifically? What specific criticisms are you leveling
> at it? And why do you think Graham was lacking in "idea
> exposure"? I'm not saying I agree with the underlying
> design decisions &c, but I don't understand your point.[/color]

It appears to be a sarcastic bigoted comment, based on his earlier
paragraph: "(like Python is very slow, C is inherently insecure,
Lispers are stupid, etc.) That's why there are usually more balanced
and less bigoted opinions expressed in such threads."