Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

[Bengt Richter]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

On 05 Nov 2005 19:19:29 -0800, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.i nvalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.or g> writes:[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > It's only -because- of those licenses that there's any reason not to
>> > bundle.[/color]
>>
>> Actually, there are other reasons, just as there are reasons besides
>> licensing for not simply including third party libraries into the
>> standard library.[/color]
>
>I'm not talking about 3rd party libraries, I'm talking about 3rd party
>documentatio n for modules that are already in the Python standard
>library. For example, if someone wrote a good Tkinter manual that
>were licensed in a way that the PSF could drop it into the Python
>distro, then PSF should certainly consider including it. The same
>goes for good docs about urllib2, or various other modules that
>currently have lousy docs.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > I found
>> > http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/lan...n/tkinter.html
>> > to be a pretty good tutorial, though incomplete as a reference.[/color]
>>
>> Thanks for the URL, but that's just a short list of links, most of
>> which I've already seen.[/color]
>
>Sorry, I meant:
>
> http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/ (html)
> http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter.pdf (pdf of same)
>
>You've probably seen this manual already.[/color]
If not, I'll second the recommendation for the pdf. It's not complete, but
it's quite useful and pretty easy to use. Hm, seems to be updated since I
downloaded a copy, guess I'll grab the newest ;-) Hm2, it doubled in size!

The creation dates are
*** FILE tkinter.pdf ***
/CreationDate (D:200304161705 00)

*** FILE tkinter2.pdf ***
/CreationDate (D:200508031142 34)

So I guess it could double in 2 years 4 months. I'll have to look into it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: Instead of obsessing over the library *reference*, why not use other documentation?

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 09:31:54 +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
[color=blue]
> (this would also make it easier for less ignorant "newbies" to find
> the examples: when Xah first complained about gzip, googling for
> "python gzip example" brought up a full page of examples. If you do
> the same search today, you'll still find examples, but 5 of the top 10
> hits are references to Xah's problems with the library reference. A
> few more rounds, and people will have to start adding -xah to their
> Python searches to get quality results.)[/color]

People are linking to Xah??? Or he is google-bombing?


--
Steven.

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: Instead of obsessing over the library *reference*, why not useother documentation?

> People are linking to Xah??? Or he is google-bombing?

I guess /F meant the results on google that show this very NG/ML.

Diez

[jmdeschamps@gmail.com]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

Sorry but I take exception on this subject.
I still think Fredrik's Intro to Tkinter is still more usable ...
Grayson's book uses PMW extensively, and a lot is about specific
widgets of that library.

This actually brings us back to the jest of F. previous post, that
documentation is question of multiple source reference, and yes that
you have to work the field (Google search, newgroups, cookbooks,
source-code, et al) a little bit to get some information.

In time, one goes from newbie to casual-user, to regular-user and
createds his own setof useful references ...

Simple ready-to-eat recipes are just that - fast-food for the mind!
(Ok some of it is delicious, even nourishing ;-) )

[Fredrik Lundh]

finding and accessing multiple documentation sources

jmdeschamps@gma il.com wrote:
[color=blue]
> This actually brings us back to the jest of F. previous post, that
> documentation is question of multiple source reference, and yes that
> you have to work the field (Google search, newgroups, cookbooks,
> source-code, et al) a little bit to get some information.[/color]

while I don't care much about the "since I don't understand the
reference manual, I demand that some experts should rewrite it
for me, for free" line of reasoning, I still think it would be a good
idea to make it easier to navigate the existing material. I wrote
about this back in may:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-May/280751.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-May/280755.html

http://effbot.org/zone/idea-seealso.htm

but, iirc, only got "wikis rulez" and "enough with that comp.sci crap"
responses.
[color=blue]
> In time, one goes from newbie to casual-user, to regular-user and
> createds his own setof useful references ...[/color]

exactly.

</F>

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 04:28:35 -0800, jmdeschamps wrote:
[color=blue]
> This actually brings us back to the jest of F. previous post,[/color]

I didn't think it was very funny...

Unless you meant the *gist* of Fredrik's post.


--
Steven.

[Keith Thompson]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

Rick Wotnaz <desparn@wtf.co m> writes:
[snip][color=blue]
> I've managed to avoid reading Xah Lee's diatribes for the most
> part. Since you included the *WHOLE THING* in your post, I had an
> "opportunit y" to see what he had to say, and for once I agree with
> some of it.[/color]

That's fine, but if you're going to post a followup, could you please
limit it to comp.lang.pytho n? There's no hope of getting Xah Lee to
stop posting his rants to irrelevant newsgroups (that's what killfiles
are for), but I doubt that many readers of comp.lang.perl. misc really
want to read about Python documentation -- if they do, they can always
read comp.lang.pytho n.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[jmdeschamps@gmail.com]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

(gulp! red-in-the-face) yes Steve, I meant "gist", sorry if I offended
anyone, specially Fredrik since I was referring to the 'substance' of
his post...certainl y not as if it were a 'joke' .

Jean-Marc

[Xah Lee]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl. misc
From: "Veli-Pekka Tätilä"
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 17:25:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

Xah Lee wrote:[color=blue]
> Today i need to use Python to compress/decompress gzip files. <snip>
> However, scanning the doc after 20 seconds there's no single example
> showing how it is used.
> jargons of Class, Constructor, Object etc are thrown together with
> presumption of reader's expertise of IO programing in Python <snip>[/color]

I se the problem now. Perl usually doesn't have that kind of trouble as

there are plenty of example snippets and the synopsis part even before
the
description.

But if you want to bash the Python docs, I'd like to mention that they
are
pretty inaccessible and unmanagable with speech. Here's my post about
it in
comp.langh.pyth on:

URL:

http://tinyurl.com/dfrb7

(or search Google Groups with vtatila python)

Though I've carefully explain the problems and provided a number of
solutions, no-one has replied yet. I reckon that, ether people don't
know
what I'm talking about accessibility being such a nieche topic still,
or
else my explanation is all too elaborate or just heavy to read through.

Well, I've tried. Yet another reason to stay with Perl. Whose docs are,
by
the way, very accessible in general.

PS: I won't cross-post as I'm not subscribed to the Python group.
---------------------------

Thank you Veli-Pekka Tätilä for your thoughtful reply.

I have cross posted it for you.

Xah
xah@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

[Mike Meyer]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

"Xah Lee" <xah@xahlee.org > writes:
[color=blue]
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl. misc
> PS: I won't cross-post as I'm not subscribed to the Python group.[/color]

Very wisely done. Then from Xah Lee, we get;
[color=blue]
> I have cross posted it for you.[/color]

Proving once again that he's stupider than spam. Please help google
find him that way by adding this link to your pages:

<a href="http://xahlee.org/">stupider than spam</a>

thank you,
<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.or g> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.

[Jeffrey Schwab]

Re: Python doc problem example: gzip module (reprise)

Mike Meyer wrote:[color=blue]
> "Xah Lee" <xah@xahlee.org > writes:
>
>[color=green]
>>Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl. misc
>>PS: I won't cross-post as I'm not subscribed to the Python group.[/color]
>
>
> Very wisely done. Then from Xah Lee, we get;
>
>[color=green]
>>I have cross posted it for you.[/color]
>
>
> Proving once again that he's stupider than spam. Please help google
> find him that way by adding this link to your pages:
>
> <a href="http://xahlee.org/">stupider than spam</a>
>
> thank you,
> <mike[/color]


Ah, but is he stupider spam, spam, spam, spam, bacon, eggs, and spam?