Zope3 Examples?

[Markus Wankus]

Hi All,

Does anyone know of any good Zope3 examples? I'm new to Zope and I just
want to start with a simple website, and later move on to a more complex
site with interactive calendar, obligatory
blog/wiki/buzzword-of-the-day-thingy, etc.

I started by installing Zope2 and Plone but it was very slow, and quite
frankly I didn't want to end up looking like "another Plone site". I
did a bunch of surfing and found some suggestions along the lines that
Zope3 was basically ready for primetime, and would combine the best of
Plone and Zope2.. and be faster. So, naturally, I removed Zope2 and
Plone and quickly installed Zope3! ;o) Well, it is definitely faster.
The problem is, it doesn't look like there are any applications (if I
may use that term) for it yet.
I'm starting in on the docs now, and I'll probably break down and pay
through the nose for the book, but I was just wondering if I perhaps
made a bad choice and should go back to Zope2/Plone - or will it all be
worth the effort?

I found the very cool SchoolBell project, and I hope to delve into the
source for that as a learning experience, but I must admit I was hoping
for a more Plone-type experience with Zope3 out of the box. It looks to
me like that sort of thing just isn't there yet. That's fine if that's
the case - I can wait (I have a lot of reading and learning to do anyway).

I guess I'm just wondering if there are any other resources out there I
haven't found in my Googling yet. I also found this nice-looking TODO
sample (which looks like the best place to start, frankly) which I plan
on using as a starting point as well
(http://toulouse.amber.org/archives/s...on/index.html).

Thanks,
Markus

[bruno modulix]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

Markus Wankus wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know of any good Zope3 examples?[/color]

Ask the Zope mailing-list. Zope is a world by itself, and is usually not
discussed here.

BTW, Zope3 is a really really new thing, so you won't find much existing
apps. When it's said that it offers 'the best from Plone', (s/plone/cmf/
IMHO), it's about framework/system architecture, not OOTB application.

--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb@xiludom. gro'.split('@')])"

[Markus Wankus]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

bruno modulix wrote:[color=blue]
> Markus Wankus wrote:[color=green]
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Does anyone know of any good Zope3 examples?[/color]
>
> Ask the Zope mailing-list. Zope is a world by itself, and is usually not
> discussed here.
>
> BTW, Zope3 is a really really new thing, so you won't find much existing
> apps. When it's said that it offers 'the best from Plone', (s/plone/cmf/
> IMHO), it's about framework/system architecture, not OOTB application.
>[/color]

Will do - thanks for the info.

Yeah - I was wondering if that's what 'the best from Plone' meant after
I installed it - however there seem to be a lot of Plone people with
their backs up over Zope3 moving in on their territory. If it doesn't
do all the cool GUI stuff (yet) I would think it could only be good for
Plone to move to Zope3 as well. It would only make it faster and more
lightweight. Ah well - off to the Zope mailing list.

FWIW - I shuddered at all the different Python web frameworks out there
and I didn't want to get into "coding" a site right away. However - it
looked like I didn't have much choice so I figured if I was going to do
it I may as well go whole hog and jump into the uber-framework that is
Zope. Perhaps I should give my head a shake and try out a nice, simple
alternative first. I have a feeling I'll be trying out Snakelets. I
really like the idea of a self-contained webserver that is
super-lightweight.

Markus.

[Jean-François Doyon]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

Markus,

Zope 3 is mature as a framework, but does not provide much "out of the
box". It's a basis upon which to build applications like Plone ... If
you are looking for something that provides Plone-like features on top
of Zope 3, it doesn't exist (yet).

Personally, I'm waiting for this: http://www.z3lab.org/
But it'll be a while yet!

Zope 3 is brilliant, but complex, and quite the departure from Zope 2,
so it'll take a while for the take up to occur.

What might work better for you is to use Zope 2 + the CMF, without
Plone. Plone can be fairly heavy and rigid, the CMF alone might give
you the tools you need. I use Zope 2 with success and good performance
on a hig traffic website, I wouldn't discount it just because of your
first impression ... There are many tweaks available that will
considerably improve performance for production systems.

Cheers,
J.F.

Markus Wankus wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know of any good Zope3 examples? I'm new to Zope and I just
> want to start with a simple website, and later move on to a more complex
> site with interactive calendar, obligatory
> blog/wiki/buzzword-of-the-day-thingy, etc.
>
> I started by installing Zope2 and Plone but it was very slow, and quite
> frankly I didn't want to end up looking like "another Plone site". I
> did a bunch of surfing and found some suggestions along the lines that
> Zope3 was basically ready for primetime, and would combine the best of
> Plone and Zope2.. and be faster. So, naturally, I removed Zope2 and
> Plone and quickly installed Zope3! ;o) Well, it is definitely faster.
> The problem is, it doesn't look like there are any applications (if I
> may use that term) for it yet.
> I'm starting in on the docs now, and I'll probably break down and pay
> through the nose for the book, but I was just wondering if I perhaps
> made a bad choice and should go back to Zope2/Plone - or will it all be
> worth the effort?
>
> I found the very cool SchoolBell project, and I hope to delve into the
> source for that as a learning experience, but I must admit I was hoping
> for a more Plone-type experience with Zope3 out of the box. It looks to
> me like that sort of thing just isn't there yet. That's fine if that's
> the case - I can wait (I have a lot of reading and learning to do anyway).
>
> I guess I'm just wondering if there are any other resources out there I
> haven't found in my Googling yet. I also found this nice-looking TODO
> sample (which looks like the best place to start, frankly) which I plan
> on using as a starting point as well
> (http://toulouse.amber.org/archives/s...on/index.html).
>
> Thanks,
> Markus[/color]

[Markus Wankus]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

Jean-François Doyon wrote:[color=blue]
> Markus,
>
> Zope 3 is mature as a framework, but does not provide much "out of the
> box". It's a basis upon which to build applications like Plone ... If
> you are looking for something that provides Plone-like features on top
> of Zope 3, it doesn't exist (yet).
>
> Personally, I'm waiting for this: http://www.z3lab.org/
> But it'll be a while yet!
>[/color]

Yes - I was watching the screencasts (well, animations) on this and it
looks incredible! I can't wait to play with something like this.
[color=blue]
> Zope 3 is brilliant, but complex, and quite the departure from Zope 2,
> so it'll take a while for the take up to occur.
>
> What might work better for you is to use Zope 2 + the CMF, without
> Plone. Plone can be fairly heavy and rigid, the CMF alone might give
> you the tools you need. I use Zope 2 with success and good performance
> on a hig traffic website, I wouldn't discount it just because of your
> first impression ... There are many tweaks available that will
> considerably improve performance for production systems.
>
> Cheers,
> J.F.
>[/color]

Thanks for the reply - maybe I'll give it another shot. I'm currently
demoing Snakelets. Quite a turn in the opposite direction, but small
and super-easy to get going with. I think once this project gets a few
good webapps under its belt (and maybe I can contribute there!) this
could be a nice solution for many people. At least a good starting
point for someone like me who knows a good deal about Python and nothing
about web frameworks.

Markus.

[Gerhard Häring]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

Markus Wankus wrote:[color=blue]
> [...] Thanks for the reply - maybe I'll give it another shot. I'm currently
> demoing Snakelets. Quite a turn in the opposite direction, but small
> and super-easy to get going with. [...][/color]

I also found Snakelets a pleasure to use and chose it for implementing a
clan homepage in early 2005.

I'm still very interested in the Python/Web/RDBMS field and tried to
follow the developments since then. I didn't actually build anything
real, only played a little bit with CherryPy and the megaframeworks
built upon, Subway and TurboGears.

If I had to choose again, I'd use TurboGears, despite the fact that it's
very young and still developing.

-- Gerhard

[Markus Wankus]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

Gerhard Häring wrote:[color=blue]
> Markus Wankus wrote:[color=green]
>> [...] Thanks for the reply - maybe I'll give it another shot. I'm
>> currently demoing Snakelets. Quite a turn in the opposite direction,
>> but small and super-easy to get going with. [...][/color]
>
> I also found Snakelets a pleasure to use and chose it for implementing a
> clan homepage in early 2005.
>
> I'm still very interested in the Python/Web/RDBMS field and tried to
> follow the developments since then. I didn't actually build anything
> real, only played a little bit with CherryPy and the megaframeworks
> built upon, Subway and TurboGears.
>
> If I had to choose again, I'd use TurboGears, despite the fact that it's
> very young and still developing.
>
> -- Gerhard
>[/color]

Good to know. I have watched the screencast for Turbogears but haven't
tried it yet. There seemed to be a lot of "magic" methods going on
there, and you could tell the guy doing the screencast had done that
more than once. ;o) I guess once you run through the manual it would
all make sense.

I figure I'll give Snakelets a good go first. Is your Snakelets-based
page up and accessible somewhere?

Markus.

[Jaime Wyant]

Re: Zope3 Examples?

If you're experimenting with frameworks, try out django. I've only
completed a few parts of the tutorial. However, what amazes me is how
much I got for so little code. It's slick.

http://www.djangoproject.com/

jw

On 9/30/05, Markus Wankus <markus_REMOVEw ankusALL_CAPS@h otmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> Gerhard Häring wrote:[color=green]
> > Markus Wankus wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> [...] Thanks for the reply - maybe I'll give it another shot. I'm
> >> currently demoing Snakelets. Quite a turn in the opposite direction,
> >> but small and super-easy to get going with. [...][/color]
> >
> > I also found Snakelets a pleasure to use and chose it for implementing a
> > clan homepage in early 2005.
> >
> > I'm still very interested in the Python/Web/RDBMS field and tried to
> > follow the developments since then. I didn't actually build anything
> > real, only played a little bit with CherryPy and the megaframeworks
> > built upon, Subway and TurboGears.
> >
> > If I had to choose again, I'd use TurboGears, despite the fact that it's
> > very young and still developing.
> >
> > -- Gerhard
> >[/color]
>
> Good to know. I have watched the screencast for Turbogears but haven't
> tried it yet. There seemed to be a lot of "magic" methods going on
> there, and you could tell the guy doing the screencast had done that
> more than once. ;o) I guess once you run through the manual it would
> all make sense.
>
> I figure I'll give Snakelets a good go first. Is your Snakelets-based
> page up and accessible somewhere?
>
> Markus.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>[/color]