PHP: Stop running with new versions!

[Perttu Pulkkinen]

I just want to ask php-community, are they running too fast with new
versions. Why:

1) Its not so nice to load 4.2x and then come back couople of months later
to find out that php 5 is out while you're still making yourself familiar
with 4.2x.

2) Are webhosters happy to announce their clients "btw, we have installed
new version, if your applications stop running, that maybe the reason, but
figure out yourself"?

3) Documentation seems to be RUNNING BEHIND all the time.

4) Massive amount of functions is typical to php, but that is not solution
to every problem. To some problems a php-level framework could be better
solution. PHP community could give more encouragemet and support to one our
two php-level framework so that most downloaders would download "naturally"
the framework/libs, install that to their website and localhost and then
hosting companies would not need to run into vicious circle of new
php-versions.

[Janwillem Borleffs]

Re: PHP: Stop running with new versions!

Perttu Pulkkinen wrote:[color=blue]
> 1) Its not so nice to load 4.2x and then come back couople of months later
> to find out that php 5 is out while you're still making yourself familiar
> with 4.2x.[/color]

The knowledge gained with each version will benefit you with later releases.
[color=blue]
>
> 2) Are webhosters happy to announce their clients "btw, we have installed
> new version, if your applications stop running, that maybe the reason, but
> figure out yourself"?
>[/color]

I don't see the problem here, because most webhosters upgrade rather
fast when a new minor version releases (e.g. x.3.3) and wait a while
before they are upgrading to a new major release (e.g. 5).

And even when they didn't, it is well possible to write scripts which
are fully compatible with new major releases. PHP 5, for instance, is
fully backward compatible with the 4.x releases.
[color=blue]
> 3) Documentation seems to be RUNNING BEHIND all the time.
>[/color]

Most of the documentation will apply to both current and future
releases. Gaps can be filled with curiosity.
[color=blue]
> 4) Massive amount of functions is typical to php, but that is not solution
> to every problem. To some problems a php-level framework could be better
> solution. PHP community could give more encouragemet and support to one our
> two php-level framework so that most downloaders would download "naturally"
> the framework/libs, install that to their website and localhost and then
> hosting companies would not need to run into vicious circle of new
> php-versions.
>
>[/color]

A massive amount of functions doesn't mean that you are expected to use
all of them, but that you have a wide range to choose from.

You use what you need and when a new release introduces that specific
function you've always wanted, take out the fireworks!

Anyways, PHP is a language in motion and this is a good thing. When this
wouldn't be the case anymore, the language would stop evolving and die
at the end.


JW

[Tim Tyler]

Re: PHP: Stop running with new versions!

Janwillem Borleffs <jw@jwscripts.c om> wrote or quoted:[color=blue]
> Perttu Pulkkinen wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 4) Massive amount of functions is typical to php, but that is not solution
> > to every problem. To some problems a php-level framework could be better
> > solution. PHP community could give more encouragemet and support to one our
> > two php-level framework so that most downloaders would download "naturally"
> > the framework/libs, install that to their website and localhost and then
> > hosting companies would not need to run into vicious circle of new
> > php-versions.[/color]
>
> A massive amount of functions doesn't mean that you are expected to use
> all of them, but that you have a wide range to choose from.[/color]

What all the functions mean is that PHP was made operational before
it gained the concept of a namespace - and now its global namespace
is in a complete mess :-|
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply.

[Chris Hope]

Re: PHP: Stop running with new versions!

Perttu Pulkkinen wrote:
[color=blue]
> 1) Its not so nice to load 4.2x and then come back couople of months later
> to find out that php 5 is out while you're still making yourself familiar
> with 4.2x.[/color]

4.2.x is an old release now anyway. The 4.3.x branch has been current since
December 2002. And PHP 5 hardly snuck up on us - the first of three release
candidates was released in March after 4 beta releases that started in June
last year.

--
Chris Hope - The Electric Toolbox - http://www.electrictoolbox.com/

[Perttu Pulkkinen]

Re: PHP: Stop running with new versions!

"Janwillem Borleffs" <jw@jwscripts.c om> wrote[color=blue]
> The knowledge gained with each version will benefit you with later[/color]
releases.

Unless what I have learned is already "depracated ".
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 3) Documentation seems to be RUNNING BEHIND all the time.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Most of the documentation will apply to both current and future
> releases. Gaps can be filled with curiosity.[/color]

Gaps should be filled by php authors. I cannot imagine even windows versions
arrive with that slogan of yours.
[color=blue]
> A massive amount of functions doesn't mean that you are expected to use
> all of them, but that you have a wide range to choose from.[/color]

And also that I'm not challenged to learn programming. I'm waiting for that
all-comprehensive function:
------------------------------------------
create_website
(PHP 6)
Description
str create_website( mixed content, str type, str style, array color_theme)
------------------------------------------
[color=blue]
> Anyways, PHP is a language in motion and this is a good thing. When this
> wouldn't be the case anymore, the language would stop evolving and die
> at the end.[/color]

Not only motion is enough, also direction of motion is needed. I didn's say:
stop evolving, i said: evolve in depth - not just in width.

[Hello World]

Re: PHP: Stop running with new versions!

> And also that I'm not challenged to learn programming. I'm waiting for that[color=blue]
> all-comprehensive function:
> ------------------------------------------
> create_website
> (PHP 6)
> Description
> str create_website( mixed content, str type, str style, array color_theme)
> ------------------------------------------[/color]

Create your own classes, or use a pre-written template system. But
personally, i don't see why i should be forced to use the template
system that the host would have decided if/given i know how to program
smaller/less generic/faster codes.

[Chung Leong]

Re: Stop running with new versions!

"Perttu Pulkkinen" <perttu.pulkkin en@co.jyu.fi> wrote in message
news:qS5Nc.130$ c31.61@read3.in et.fi...[color=blue]
> I just want to ask php-community, are they running too fast with new
> versions. Why:
>
> 1) Its not so nice to load 4.2x and then come back couople of months later
> to find out that php 5 is out while you're still making yourself familiar
> with 4.2x.[/color]

Well, you don't have to upgrade if you don't feel like it. Many of us will
probably be coding to PHP 4.x in the foreseeable future. It's worth
remembering that PHP is an open source project. A final release often means
that "the software is ready for testing by the general public." I can tell
you that PHP5 is far from being done. There're still serious unresolved
issues within the scripting engine itself. If all goes well it will
stablizes within a year's time. More realistically, we're looking at a
couple years before PHP5 will achieve the same stability as the current
releases of PHP4.

In short, have no fear of being left behind. If a PHP5 feature is useful
enough, it'll get backported to the 4 branch.
[color=blue]
> 4) Massive amount of functions is typical to php, but that is not solution
> to every problem. To some problems a php-level framework could be better
> solution. PHP community could give more encouragemet and support to one[/color]
our[color=blue]
> two php-level framework so that most downloaders would download[/color]
"naturally"[color=blue]
> the framework/libs, install that to their website and localhost and then
> hosting companies would not need to run into vicious circle of new
> php-versions.[/color]

Just because they are there doesn't mean you have to use them. To complain
that PHP has too many functions is like complaining that English has too
many words.

Personally, I like to think of computer languages as...well, languages. When
you are programming you're communicating something to the computer. A good
language is one that allows you to express a broad range of ideas clearly
and concisely. In that respect PHP is extremely effective. But of course, as
it's true with human languages, you need become fluent first before you can
appreciate its power :-)