What is the learning curve for PHP?

[axlq]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

In article <1175574132.067 045.314570@q75g 2000hsh.googleg roups.com>,
K.J.Williams <lordwill@quik. comwrote:

so in every Java Script, there has to be a conditional statement
which catches the web browsers type and use the best most
procedures - this might make my work with PHP not very easy for
web page generation.

Why not? PHP has an environment variable to tell you the client's user
agent string. You can then output whatever you want based on that.

One crazy question is PHP derived from Perl , like C++ is derived
>from C?

PHP uses C++ syntax, but also makes use of some perl features such
as regular expression matching -- if you want them. To me, PHP
feels more like C++ without the strong variable typing constraints.

>I hope I made good choices since I was completely lost by the
>number of books on PHP that I could buy so I went with my best
>thoughts as I reviewed them and thats what I choose.

Personally I think you're buying too many books. The only thing I
ever needed for PHP was the online documentation at www.php.net.
The books are available for others to make money from you. Nothing
wrong with that, but if you already have a few programming languages
under your belt, you don't need yet another book for PHP, in my
opinion.

-A

[otrWalter@gmail.com]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

2. I have JavaScript - The Definitive Guide 3rd Ed. by David Flanagan

published by O'reilly. I have had this book for a while so I am
taking the advice of learning to use HTML wtih Javascripting.

Here's something else to keep in mind...

Javascript and PHP have *very* similar syntax. Close enough to drive
you crazy when you find the differences.

To help my head, I code my JS like I code my PHP.

Yep! $ signs for all vars and the whole lot!

Yep! Makes the JS code look like PHP at first glance, but it also
helps my poor feeble brain when I read it.

But beware of the concantination symbol! PERIOD for PHP, PLUS for JS

OK, the array and classes are galaxies apart, but except that... (yes,
the list goes on) ;)

walter

[K.J.Williams]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

I was going by the advice that I got on alt.comp.lang.l earn.c-c++
group
that its best to have many reference books for knowing how to use a
langauge, I have at least 4 for books on C++ , 1 on C, 1 on C and C+
+...
and many of the authors hit and miss certain subjects.

I needed the CSS book becuase I dont know how to use CSS in HTML ,
I know HTML but not the integration CSS which is now a standard among
many businesses, along with that comes Javascripting - which I have
never
touched becuase of the frustration of non-standard HTML browsers such
as
MSIE, as for PHP , php in a nutshell was choosen as reference, and
the
other book published by wrox is to teach me.


And to go off on a tangent, as for a few programming langauges
I traded Commodore BASIC for C on my IBM - it took three years for me
to dewarp my mind from bad programming habits to develop good
programming habits
in C. HTML is a pseudo-programming langauge , ditto for Javascript.
The most
horrible langauges I have run into are COBOL, Pascal, Modula-2,
Fortran,
BASIC, and if not Visual BASIC in early versions. If and when Sunsoft
develops
a compiler that produce a independent machine code program from JAVA
code, I might
reconsider that langauge - that langauge is junk. Theres a whole
litany of religious
wars between JAVA and C++ programmers. But the most useful of all the
programming
langauges is assembly, the only langauge that has 3rd advantage over
all langauges.
Assembly langauge runs the fastest, has a 1 to 1 ratio of mnemonic to
machine code
translation ( yes that makes it a pain to program if you wanted to do
something big ),
but most of all you can revert any machine langauge back into assembly
langauge
and reverse engineer it to do something that it wasnt intended to do.
Now that means
you have to be a master of the machine your on. On newer machines that
have big
processors today, thats an undertaking task, but say long ago on a
Commodore 64 ,yes
it was - software piracy was rampant on that machine. And that
basically proves that
there can be no such thing as copyright protection scheme or anything
to prevent
software duplication. All software on CDs have to abide by a red book
standard?..
and that standard is available to anyone who builds hardware - or
software, or software
that copys that medium. And thats true for any standard among the
industry involved with
incoding of information mediums. The photocopier must have been the
biggest threat to
to the book industry, with the scanner following ( same technology ).

But to cut to the chase...

I want to use PHP to build a better nteractive web site with my web
clients.
Thats what I want

On Apr 3, 3:10 pm, a...@spamcop.ne t (axlq) wrote:

>
Personally I think you're buying too many books. The only thing I
ever needed for PHP was the online documentation atwww.php.net.
The books are available for others to make money from you. Nothing
wrong with that, but if you already have a few programming languages
under your belt, you don't need yet another book for PHP, in my
opinion.
>
-A

[K.J.Williams]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

I think my friend is going to have more trouble with PHP than I am and
were
both going to have the same trouble of switching from the mentality of
developing
command line interface programs ( me for Linux ), and gui programs
( him for
windows ) to web based programs where there is no control over what
happens
on how it looks on the clients web browser. You just pray that it
looks
good. That will be a new concept, to learn.



On Apr 3, 10:18 pm, "otrWal...@gmai l.com" <otrWal...@gmai l.comwrote:

2. I have JavaScript - The Definitive Guide 3rd Ed. by David Flanagan
published by O'reilly. I have had this book for a while so I am
taking the advice of learning to use HTML wtih Javascripting.

>
Here's something else to keep in mind...
>
Javascript and PHP have *very* similar syntax. Close enough to drive
you crazy when you find the differences.
>
To help my head, I code my JS like I code my PHP.
>
Yep! $ signs for all vars and the whole lot!
>
Yep! Makes the JS code look like PHP at first glance, but it also
helps my poor feeble brain when I read it.
>
But beware of the concantination symbol! PERIOD for PHP, PLUS for JS
>
OK, the array and classes are galaxies apart, but except that... (yes,
the list goes on) ;)
>
walter

[Toby A Inkster]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

K.J.Williams wrote:

I needed the CSS book becuase I dont know how to use CSS in HTML ,
I know HTML but not the integration CSS which is now a standard among
many businesses

If you've not been using CSS, then the chances are, you've not been using
HTML properly either.

as for PHP , php in a nutshell was choosen as reference, and the
other book published by wrox is to teach me.

I agree that it's usually a good idea to have several books on a
programming language to be able to learn it. PHP is the exception though.

Firstly, PHP changes so often -- normally in backwards compatible ways,
true, but I don't think I've ever used a language where new features and
new functions are being added on such a frequent basis. Books become
obsolete very quickly. If you take a look at these two books you've got,
I'd bet that at least one of them teaches you the old PHP4 method for
object-oriented programming. Although that still works, PHP5 objects are
vastly more powerful.

HTML is a pseudo-programming langauge

HTML is not a programming language at all -- it's a data format, much like
JPEG or MP3 is.

ditto for Javascript.

Javascript is a fully featured programming object-oriented language. And
(browser compatibility problems aside) is actually rather pleasant to work
with. It's a bit like C or C++ in syntax, but without the need to worry
about pointers and memory locations; it has a good object orientation
model, but isn't militant about making you use it like Java is.

If and when Sunsoft develops a compiler that produce a independent
machine code program from JAVA code, I might reconsider that langauge -
that langauge is junk.

Consider it this way: a compiled C program will only run on the platform
it was compiled for. Say, for example, that you have a C program compiled
for Linux on the DEC Alpha processor. If you want to run it, you need to
buy a DEC Alpha processor -- they don't come cheap.

A compiled Java program will also only run on the platform that it was
compiled for. That platform is normally the Java virtual machine. So if
you want to run the program, then you need to buy a Java virtual machine.
Fortunately, they're free!

Whatsmore, there *is* a true compiler for Java -- it's part of the GCC
suite. See http://gcc.gnu.org/java/.

Java has many drawbacks, but device-independence is normally quoted as one
of its best features!

But the most useful of all the programming langauges is assembly

Nonsense. A programming language is only as useful as what people can do
with it. Given a week, and experienced, say, C programmer can do a lot
more in C than an experienced assembly programmer can do in assembly.

Sure, it's fast, and at certain times it's worth the programmer time to
drop down into assembly and eek a bit of extra speed out of the program.
But those situations are very rare; unless you're working on compression,
encryption, high-end 3D graphics or kernel development, you're unlikely to
encounter such a situation.

And that basically proves that there can be no such thing as copyright
protection scheme or anything to prevent software duplication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

Summary: TC processors can be designed so that they refuse to run an
operating system unless it has been digitally signed. If you modify your
operating system, the signature will break, and you'll be unable to run
it; so for all intents and purposes, the OS cannot be modified. The TC
operating system similarly refuses to run a program unless it has been
signed; so for all intents and purposes, no programs can be modified.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

[Toby A Inkster]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

otrWalter@gmail .com wrote:

To help my head, I code my JS like I code my PHP.
Yep! $ signs for all vars and the whole lot!

Does Javascript allow $ signs in variables? Hmmm... interesting.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

[K.J.Williams]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

See my interjections to your comments below..

On Apr 4, 1:42 am, Toby A Inkster <usenet200...@t obyinkster.co.u k>
wrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:

I needed the CSS book becuase I dont know how to use CSS in HTML ,
I know HTML but not the integration CSS which is now a standard among
many businesses

>
If you've not been using CSS, then the chances are, you've not been using
HTML properly either.

Thats true - I have learned to use HTML on my own and the limited book
choices that I was
given for learning HTML - I choose HTML for Dummies, and on line I
used some help from
several other sites on HTML. So I have used HTML effectively to my
uses but not to the
standard practice of using CSS. I have a program that I wrote in C
that automates the
script building of at least 314 html pages that I have that are in a
system I developed.
It works but I would like it to do *BETTER*. Theres always room for
doing better...in my book
(not the dummies book).

>

as for PHP , php in a nutshell was choosen as reference, and the
other book published by wrox is to teach me.

>
I agree that it's usually a good idea to have several books on a
programming language to be able to learn it. PHP is the exception though.
>
Firstly, PHP changes so often -- normally in backwards compatible ways,
true, but I don't think I've ever used a language where new features and
new functions are being added on such a frequent basis. Books become
obsolete very quickly. If you take a look at these two books you've got,
I'd bet that at least one of them teaches you the old PHP4 method for
object-oriented programming. Although that still works, PHP5 objects are
vastly more powerful.
>

HTML is a pseudo-programming langauge

>
HTML is not a programming language at all -- it's a data format, much like
JPEG or MP3 is.

I disagree.

HTML is an interpreted langauge that has a simple method of handling
wrong syntax, if the
web browser's interpreter parses a tag it doesnt recognize it ignores
it or if it does
recognize something that is like one of its tags but its incorrect
syntax it produces
undefined behavior. Otherwise, correct syntax will produce a result
from the interpreter.

>

ditto for Javascript.

My argument stands the same -- more or less for Javascript, its not
compiled therefore its
interpreted.

In my point of view - Javascript and HTML are programming langauges
from the stand point
they are interpreted - like Commodore's line numbered BASIC

>
Javascript is a fully featured programming object-oriented language. And
(browser compatibility problems aside) is actually rather pleasant to work
with. It's a bit like C or C++ in syntax, but without the need to worry
about pointers and memory locations; it has a good object orientation
model, but isn't militant about making you use it like Java is.
>

If and when Sunsoft develops a compiler that produce a independent
machine code program from JAVA code, I might reconsider that langauge -
that langauge is junk.

>
Consider it this way: a compiled C program will only run on the platform
it was compiled for. Say, for example, that you have a C program compiled
for Linux on the DEC Alpha processor. If you want to run it, you need to
buy a DEC Alpha processor -- they don't come cheap.
>
A compiled Java program will also only run on the platform that it was
compiled for. That platform is normally the Java virtual machine. So if
you want to run the program, then you need to buy a Java virtual machine.
Fortunately, they're free!

yeah but the designer of Java intended the langauge to be portable to
any machine that supports it and run it from a JVM, but its running
from a
second compiled form called byte code which depends on the JVM to run
it.

>
Whatsmore, there *is* a true compiler for Java -- it's part of the GCC
suite. Seehttp://gcc.gnu.org/java/.

Theres none for Windows XP, and secondly the compiler by gcc is has
bugs that
make certain features of Java not possible, some *.awt's are
icompatible

>
Java has many drawbacks, but device-independence is normally quoted as one
of its best features!
>

But the most useful of all the programming langauges is assembly

>
Nonsense. A programming language is only as useful as what people can do
with it. Given a week, and experienced, say, C programmer can do a lot
more in C than an experienced assembly programmer can do in assembly.
>
Sure, it's fast, and at certain times it's worth the programmer time to
drop down into assembly and eek a bit of extra speed out of the program.
But those situations are very rare; unless you're working on compression,
encryption, high-end 3D graphics or kernel development, you're unlikely to
encounter such a situation.
>

for todays applications - it assembly is good for optimization of
certain
parts of code or developing hardware drivers.

And that basically proves that there can be no such thing as copyright
protection scheme or anything to prevent software duplication.

>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

>
Summary: TC processors can be designed so that they refuse to run an
operating system unless it has been digitally signed. If you modify your
operating system, the signature will break, and you'll be unable to run
it; so for all intents and purposes, the OS cannot be modified. The TC
operating system similarly refuses to run a program unless it has been
signed; so for all intents and purposes, no programs can be modified.

No scheme is fool proof for any long term plan

>
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux
>
* = I'm getting there!

[Tyno Gendo]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

Toby A Inkster wrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:
>
If you've not been using CSS, then the chances are, you've not been using
HTML properly either.

This comment doesn't really hold true, you can do good HTML without
knowing CSS. CSS didn't exist when HTML came out, but by the inference
in this comment it would mean hardly anyone every did any good HTML.

So it all depends on what version of HTML you're talking about, really
this would mean XHTML with CSS ?

[Mary Pegg]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

K.J.Williams wrote:

See my interjections to your comments below..

Good, that's where we expect to find them.

HTML is a pseudo-programming langauge

>>
>HTML is not a programming language at all -- it's a data format, much
>like JPEG or MP3 is.

>
I disagree.
>
HTML is an interpreted langauge that has a simple method of handling

Sheesh, I've been reading some weird stuff in this thread. HTML is not
a data format, it's not a programming language, it's a Markup Language.
Though if you've got to explain what that is to someone, calling it a
"data format" is probably a very good place to start.

yeah but the designer of Java intended the langauge to be portable to
any machine that supports it and run it from a JVM, but its running
from a second compiled form called byte code which depends on the JVM
to run it.

I was pretty sure that the original whitepaper [1] mentioned bytecode
and JVMs and yes, it does:

http://java.sun.com/docs/white/langenv/Neutral.doc1.html#402

Theres none for Windows XP, and secondly the compiler by gcc is has

Cygwin?

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

>
No scheme is fool proof for any long term plan

Something I can agree with you about.

>--

Shpxvat Google Groups. Toby's got a perfickly good sig-sep, but Google
ignores it. Google's "do no evil" mantra is starting to lose out to
a Microsoft-style "WE make the standards, you peasant" attitude.

[1] Can I just say that I read it when it came out? Can I?

--
"Checking identity papers is a complete waste of time. If anyone can
be counted on to have valid papers, it will be the terrorists".

[satyakaran@gmail.com]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

On Mar 30, 2:31 am, "K.J.Willia ms" <lordw...@quik. comwrote:

Hello,
>
A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?
Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like
bash shell scripting for Linux?
>
Thanks
KJW

Hello Friend
I also has exp in VB when I started PHP.
As said in one comment, It will be good to learn basic HTML first.
Then you can easily start with PHP and mysql.
You already know all the basic from another language so learning PHP
would be easy for you.

In PHP things will not so organised as VB. In PHP you can get
seperation of code through different
php page which can be included in any php pages like do from library.

Use this link:
http://satya61229.blogspot.com/2007/.../> simple.html

[satyakaran@gmail.com]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

On Apr 4, 6:22 pm, Mary Pegg <inva...@invali d.comwrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:

See my interjections to your comments below..

>
Good, that's where we expect to find them.
>

HTML is a pseudo-programming langauge

>

HTML is not a programming language at all -- it's a data format, much
like JPEG or MP3 is.

>

I disagree.

>

HTML is an interpreted langauge that has a simple method of handling

>
Sheesh, I've been reading some weird stuff in this thread. HTML is not
a data format, it's not a programming language, it's a Markup Language.
Though if you've got to explain what that is to someone, calling it a
"data format" is probably a very good place to start.
>

yeah but the designer of Java intended the langauge to be portable to
any machine that supports it and run it from a JVM, but its running
from a second compiled form called byte code which depends on the JVM
to run it.

>
I was pretty sure that the original whitepaper [1] mentioned bytecode
and JVMs and yes, it does:http://java.sun.com/docs/white/lange....doc1.html#402
>

Theres none for Windows XP, and secondly the compiler by gcc is has

>
Cygwin?
>

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

>

No scheme is fool proof for any long term plan

>
Something I can agree with you about.
>

--

>
Shpxvat Google Groups. Toby's got a perfickly good sig-sep, but Google
ignores it. Google's "do no evil" mantra is starting to lose out to
a Microsoft-style "WE make the standards, you peasant" attitude.
>
[1] Can I just say that I read it when it came out? Can I?
>
--
"Checking identity papers is a complete waste of time. If anyone can
be counted on to have valid papers, it will be the terrorists".

[Toby A Inkster]

Re: What is the learning curve for PHP?

Tyno Gendo wrote:

Toby A Inkster wrote:
>

>If you've not been using CSS, then the chances are, you've not been using
>HTML properly either.

>
This comment doesn't really hold true, you can do good HTML without
knowing CSS.

*Can* do good HTML without knowing CSS, yes. I said, "chances are".

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!