ROUND

**David T. Ashley** · Dec 22 '06, 04:45 PM

Re: ROUND

<kkmigas@gmail. comwrote in message
news:1166719766 .801640.296050@ 42g2000cwt.goog legroups.com...

Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?
>
echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
'.')." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
'.')." ";
>
PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55
>
PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.55
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55
>
PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,56

My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional
parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.

0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)

Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
are not "2".

PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
floating-point processors or libraries are set).

In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.

Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
fractional part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
I'm guessing that you may not.

Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
would be a reasonable test case.

Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.

Just a guess.

**kkmigas@gmail.com** · Dec 26 '06, 12:05 PM

Re: ROUND

I've tested the same function in the same hardware configuration and
the only difference is the OS, so it must be the libraries the big
problem is that i don't know witch ones to replace in order to get the
system to solve the way i want.

On Dec 22, 4:42 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.comw rote:

<kkmi...@gmail. comwrote in messagenews:116 6719766.801640. 296050@42g2000c wt.googlegroups .com...
>
>
>

Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?

>

echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
'.')." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
'.')." ";

>

PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55

>

PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.55
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55

>

PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,56My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional

parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.
>
0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)
>
Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
are not "2".
>
PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
floating-point processors or libraries are set).
>
In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.
>
Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
fractional part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
I'm guessing that you may not.
>
Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
would be a reasonable test case.
>
Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.
>
Just a guess.

**kkmigas@gmail.com** · Dec 26 '06, 03:25 PM

Re: ROUND

PHP code
echo "round(10.045,2 ) - ".round(10.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(20.045,2 ) - ".round(20.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(30.045,2 ) - ".round(30.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(40.045,2 ) - ".round(40.045, 2)." ";

This is very strange:

round(10.045,2) - 10.04
round(20.045,2) - 20.05
round(30.045,2) - 30.05
round(40.045,2) - 40.05

On Dec 26, 11:57 am, "kkmi...@gmail. com" <kkmi...@gmail. comwrote:

I've tested the same function in the same hardware configuration and
the only difference is the OS, so it must be the libraries the big
problem is that i don't know witch ones to replace in order to get the
system to solve the way i want.
>
On Dec 22, 4:42 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.comw rote:
>

<kkmi...@gmail. comwrote in messagenews:116 6719766.801640. 296050@42g2000c wt.googlegroups .com...

>

Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?

>

echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
'.')." ";
echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
'.')." ";

>

PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55

>

PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.55
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,55

>

PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
round 20.545 -20.55
round 20.555 -20.56
number_format 20.545 -20,55
number_format 20.555 -20,56My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional

parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.

>

0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)

>

Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
are not "2".

>

PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
floating-point processors or libraries are set).

>

In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.

>

Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
fractional part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
I'm guessing that you may not.

>

Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
would be a reasonable test case.

>

Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.

>

Just a guess.

**Jerry Stuckle** · Dec 27 '06, 01:05 AM

Re: ROUND

kkmigas@gmail.c om wrote:

PHP code
echo "round(10.045,2 ) - ".round(10.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(20.045,2 ) - ".round(20.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(30.045,2 ) - ".round(30.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(40.045,2 ) - ".round(40.045, 2)." ";
>
This is very strange:
>
round(10.045,2) - 10.04
round(20.045,2) - 20.05
round(30.045,2) - 30.05
round(40.045,2) - 40.05
>
On Dec 26, 11:57 am, "kkmi...@gmail. com" <kkmi...@gmail. comwrote:
>

>>I've tested the same function in the same hardware configuration and
>>the only difference is the OS, so it must be the libraries the big
>>problem is that i don't know witch ones to replace in order to get the
>>system to solve the way i want.
>>
>>On Dec 22, 4:42 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.comw rote:
>>
>>

>>><kkmi...@gma il.comwrote in messagenews:116 6719766.801640. 296050@42g2000c wt.googlegroups .com...

>>

>>>>Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?

>>

>>>>echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
>>>>echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
>>>>echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
>>>>'.')." " ;
>>>>echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
>>>>'.')." " ;

>>

>>>>PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>>number_form at 20.545 -20,55
>>>>number_form at 20.555 -20,55

>>

>>>>PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>round 20.555 -20.55
>>>>number_form at 20.545 -20,55
>>>>number_form at 20.555 -20,55

>>

>>>>PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>>number_form at 20.545 -20,55
>>>>number_form at 20.555 -20,56My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional
>>>
>>>parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.

>>

>>>0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
>>>0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)

>>

>>>Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
>>>point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
>>>are not "2".

>>

>>>PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
>>>is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
>>>floating-point processors or libraries are set).

>>

>>>In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.

>>

>>>Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
>>>fractional part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
>>>I'm guessing that you may not.

>>

>>>Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
>>>would be a reasonable test case.

>>

>>>Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.

>>

>>>Just a guess.

>
>

This is the exact same problem you reported in comp.databases. mysql, and
the solution is exactly the same.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

**kkmigas@gmail.com** · Dec 27 '06, 12:55 PM

Re: ROUND

Has i told you on the other newsgroup

This 2 servers have the same hardware configuration

On Windows 2003

http://efeito.org/info.php

On Linux

http://efeito.net/info.php

On Dec 27, 12:54 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

kkmi...@gmail.c om wrote:

PHP code
echo "round(10.045,2 ) - ".round(10.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(20.045,2 ) - ".round(20.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(30.045,2 ) - ".round(30.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(40.045,2 ) - ".round(40.045, 2)." ";

>

This is very strange:

>

round(10.045,2) - 10.04
round(20.045,2) - 20.05
round(30.045,2) - 30.05
round(40.045,2) - 40.05

>

On Dec 26, 11:57 am, "kkmi...@gmail. com" <kkmi...@gmail. comwrote:

>

>I've tested the same function in the same hardware configuration and
>the only difference is the OS, so it must be the libraries the big
>problem is that i don't know witch ones to replace in order to get the
>system to solve the way i want.

>

>On Dec 22, 4:42 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.comw rote:

>

>><kkmi...@gmai l.comwrote in messagenews:116 6719766.801640. 296050@42g2000c wt.googlegroups .com...

>

>>>Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?

>

>>>echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
>>>echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
>>>echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
>>>'.')." ";
>>>echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
>>>'.')." ";

>

>>>PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>number_forma t 20.545 -20,55
>>>number_forma t 20.555 -20,55

>

>>>PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>round 20.555 -20.55
>>>number_forma t 20.545 -20,55
>>>number_forma t 20.555 -20,55

>

>>>PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>number_forma t 20.545 -20,55
>>>number_forma t 20.555 -20,56My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional

>

>>parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.

>

>>0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
>>0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)

>

>>Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
>>point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
>>are not "2".

>

>>PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
>>is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
>>floating-point processors or libraries are set).

>

>>In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.

>

>>Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
>>fractional part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
>>I'm guessing that you may not.

>

>>Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
>>would be a reasonable test case.

>

>>Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.

>

>>Just a guess.This is the exact same problem you reported in comp.databases. mysql, and

the solution is exactly the same.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

**David T. Ashley** · Dec 27 '06, 07:35 PM

Re: ROUND

<kkmigas@gmail. comwrote in message
news:1167146220 .067133.35770@7 3g2000cwn.googl egroups.com...

PHP code
echo "round(10.045,2 ) - ".round(10.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(20.045,2 ) - ".round(20.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(30.045,2 ) - ".round(30.045, 2)." ";
echo "round(40.045,2 ) - ".round(40.045, 2)." ";
>
This is very strange:
>
round(10.045,2) - 10.04
round(20.045,2) - 20.05
round(30.045,2) - 30.05
round(40.045,2) - 40.05

Why are you posting this code and quoting my post?

..045 = 45/1000 = 9/200 = denominator not a power of 2.

Like your earlier examples, these numbers are not exactly expressable as
base-2 decimals.

It would be interesting to determine the breakpoint between

round(10.045,2) - 10.04
round(20.045,2) - 20.05

where the rounding changes. I'm going to guess that 15.045 is one way and
16.045 is the other.

Dav.e

**Jerry Stuckle** · Dec 27 '06, 09:05 PM

Re: ROUND

kkmigas@gmail.c om wrote:

On Dec 27, 12:54 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>

>>kkmi...@gmail .com wrote:
>>

>>>PHP code
>>>echo "round(10.045,2 ) - ".round(10.045, 2)." ";
>>>echo "round(20.045,2 ) - ".round(20.045, 2)." ";
>>>echo "round(30.045,2 ) - ".round(30.045, 2)." ";
>>>echo "round(40.045,2 ) - ".round(40.045, 2)." ";

>>

>>>This is very strange:

>>

>>>round(10.045 ,2) - 10.04
>>>round(20.045 ,2) - 20.05
>>>round(30.045 ,2) - 30.05
>>>round(40.045 ,2) - 40.05

>>

>>>On Dec 26, 11:57 am, "kkmi...@gmail. com" <kkmi...@gmail. comwrote:

>>

>>>>I've tested the same function in the same hardware configuration and
>>>>the only difference is the OS, so it must be the libraries the big
>>>>problem is that i don't know witch ones to replace in order to get the
>>>>system to solve the way i want.

>>

>>>>On Dec 22, 4:42 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.comw rote:

>>

>>>>><kkmi...@g mail.comwrote in messagenews:116 6719766.801640. 296050@42g2000c wt.googlegroups .com...

>>

>>>>>>Can some one explain if this can be fixed using php.ini settings ?

>>

>>>>>>echo "round 20.545 -".round(20.545, 2)." ";
>>>>>>echo "round 20.555 -".round(20.555, 2)." ";
>>>>>>echo "number_for mat 20.545 -".number_format (20.545, 2, ',',
>>>>>>'.')." ";
>>>>>>echo "number_for mat 20.555 -".number_format (20.555, 2, ',',
>>>>>>'.')." ";

>>

>>>>>>PHP Version 4.3.0 / FreeBSD
>>>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.545 -20,55
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.555 -20,55

>>

>>>>>>PHP Version 4.4.4 / CENTOS
>>>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>>>round 20.555 -20.55
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.545 -20,55
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.555 -20,55

>>

>>>>>>PHP Version 5.1.4 / Windows NT
>>>>>>round 20.545 -20.55
>>>>>>round 20.555 -20.56
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.545 -20,55
>>>>>>number_fo rmat 20.555 -20,56My only observation about the examples you chose is that the fractional

>>

>>>>>parts are infinitely repeating "radiximals " in binary.

>>

>>>>>0.545 = 545/1000 = 109/200 (irreducible)
>>>>>0.555 = 555/1000 = 111/200 (irreducible)

>>

>>>>>Both of the numbers above can't be expressed as precise binary floating
>>>>>point numbers because the denominator after reduction has prime factors that
>>>>>are not "2".

>>

>>>>>PHP.INI may be a factor, but it may also be that something at a lower level
>>>>>is occurring (i.e. machine arithmetic, how certain rounding settings on
>>>>>floating-point processors or libraries are set).

>>

>>>>>In other words, you've chosen antagonistic examples.

>>

>>>>>Why don't you try 7/8 (0.875), 15/16 (0.9275), or 31/32 (0.96875) as the
>>>>>fraction al part of the numbers and see if you can get the same behavior.
>>>>>I'm guessing that you may not.

>>

>>>>>Any fraction with a reasonable denomiator (< 2^16) that is a power of 2
>>>>>would be a reasonable test case.

>>

>>>>>Note that these are all exactly representable by a typical machine.

>>

>>>>>Just a guess.This is the exact same problem you reported in comp.databases. mysql, and

>>
>>the solution is exactly the same.
>>
>>--
>>============= =====
>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>Jerry Stuckle
>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>jstuck...@att global.net
>>============= =====

>
>

Has i told you on the other newsgroup
>
This 2 servers have the same hardware configuration
>
On Windows 2003

http://efeito.org/info.php

>
On Linux

http://efeito.net/info.php

>

(Top posting fixed)

And as I and others have told you - when using floating point, results
when using expressions like these are unpredictable.

It's just like when using base 10:

round((1.0/3.0) + (1.0/6.0))

can equal zero, because neither 1.0/3.0 nor 1.0/1.6 can be expressed as
an exact value in base 10. They are repeating decimals.

Sure, they *should* come out to 0.5. But their actual value will be
0.499999999 to however many decimal places could be handled.

*Some* libraries will "fix" this by adding a small value (i.e.
0.000000001) to the results to "fudge" the value. But no such fudge
factor is required, nor is it always good.

You are always best to use integers if you need exact values, or add
your own fudge factor to the results.

It's been that way for the almost 40 years I've been programming, and
it's not going to change now. That's why many processors now have a
"packed decimal" or a "binary coded decimal" type internally to give
exact results.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

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