Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

[bvdb]

Hello,
my web-application uses two frames, one with a list of database
records, one with a record detail view. From the detail view there is
"mark" function that will mark the respective record in the list frame
(with a special color).
Now this mark function is meant to toggle the mark status in the list
frame, i.e. switch it on with the first click and off with the second.
Problem is, the marking works, but the second click will not have any
effect. Only when I click on another link in the list frame and _then_
click "mark" again will the marking be switched off.
I assume this is due to the browser caching the request, and when it
gets two times the same request (i.e. "list_records.p hp?marknode=42" ),
just ignores the second one. All no-cache parameters are already set in
the headers, like:
header("Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate");

(as described in the PHP manual), but this doesn't seem to work.
Or maybe the described behaviour is based on something else?
Thanks for hints!

[Erwin Moller]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Hello,
my web-application uses two frames, one with a list of database
records, one with a record detail view. From the detail view there is
"mark" function that will mark the respective record in the list frame
(with a special color).
Now this mark function is meant to toggle the mark status in the list
frame, i.e. switch it on with the first click and off with the second.
Problem is, the marking works, but the second click will not have any
effect. Only when I click on another link in the list frame and _then_
click "mark" again will the marking be switched off.
I assume this is due to the browser caching the request, and when it
gets two times the same request (i.e. "list_records.p hp?marknode=42" ),
just ignores the second one. All no-cache parameters are already set in
the headers, like:
header("Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate");
>
(as described in the PHP manual), but this doesn't seem to work.
Or maybe the described behaviour is based on something else?
Thanks for hints!

Hi,

[Why not post this is a Javascript newsgroup?]

Two things:
1) You didn't describe how you detect the click.
Try using the onClick-event handler in Javascript to test is your browser is
missing clicks. Just make a function that says hello.
<span onClick="alert( 'I am clicked');">som e record</span>

2) Caching. *IF* this is a caching-issue, just append some timestamp to the
url to prevent caching.
From php:
<a href="detailedv iew.php?recordi d=<?= $recordid ?>&t=<?= microtime() ?>">
recordlink here</a>

I just made up the recordid, I guess you managed that part already.
The addition t=5432897659834 75 makes sure every url is different each time.
That will prevent retrieving cached records.

Hope that helps.
If not, post some examplecode.

Regards,
Erwin

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Hello,
Erwin Moller wrote:
....

[Why not post this is a Javascript newsgroup?]

Because there is no Javascript involved in my code, just HTML and PHP.

Two things:
1) You didn't describe how you detect the click.
Try using the onClick-event handler in Javascript ...

My code works fine:
If I load the list frame in a separate window and reload it the marking
gets toggled on and off each time.

2) Caching. *IF* this is a caching-issue, just append some timestamp to the
url to prevent caching.

This only works if the whole page would be regenerated - but the record
frame remains the same, so the timestamp would also stay the same which
makes it senseless.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Hello,
Erwin Moller wrote:
...
>

>>[Why not post this is a Javascript newsgroup?]

>
>
Because there is no Javascript involved in my code, just HTML and PHP.
>
>

>>Two things:
>>1) You didn't describe how you detect the click.
>>Try using the onClick-event handler in Javascript ...

>
>
My code works fine:
If I load the list frame in a separate window and reload it the marking
gets toggled on and off each time.
>
>

>>2) Caching. *IF* this is a caching-issue, just append some timestamp to the
>>url to prevent caching.

>
>
This only works if the whole page would be regenerated - but the record
frame remains the same, so the timestamp would also stay the same which
makes it senseless.
>

The problem is each frame pretty much acts like a separate window from
the server's POV. That is, you can't force a frame to load from the
server end. You can update your data in one frame and send it to the
server. But only that frame will get updated - PHP can't force another
frame to get updated.

For that you'll have to use Javascript to request the second frame be
reloaded.

--
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jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

The problem is each frame pretty much acts like a separate window from
the server's POV. That is, you can't force a frame to load from the
server end.

Of course not. That's why I'm calling it from the record-frame with a
target='listfra me' clause.
It works once and then again after I do something else in the list
frame. So my code works, the frame structure is okay, only the browser
ignores the second (same) call.

For that you'll have to use Javascript to request the second frame be
reloaded.

No, sorry, Javascript really is not a question nor a solution here.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>

>>The problem is each frame pretty much acts like a separate window from
>>the server's POV. That is, you can't force a frame to load from the
>>server end.

>
>
Of course not. That's why I'm calling it from the record-frame with a
target='listfra me' clause.
It works once and then again after I do something else in the list
frame. So my code works, the frame structure is okay, only the browser
ignores the second (same) call.
>
>

>>For that you'll have to use Javascript to request the second frame be
>>reloaded.

>
>
No, sorry, Javascript really is not a question nor a solution here.
>

In that case I'm not sure why it would fail. But it does not look like
a PHP problem - probably something in the HTML. You might try alt.html
for more help.

--
=============== ===
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Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Jerry, it is not a downright "PHP problem", more a general "web server
programming problem" - but as the web server programming language of my
choice happens to be PHP, and I assume(d) many PHP programmers face
the same problem with frames, I posted the question here.
Maybe there is someone out there with a practical solution.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Jerry, it is not a downright "PHP problem", more a general "web server
programming problem" - but as the web server programming language of my
choice happens to be PHP, and I assume(d) many PHP programmers face
the same problem with frames, I posted the question here.
Maybe there is someone out there with a practical solution.
>

No, it isn't. And it isn't a PHP problem at all.

Don't you think you would get a better response on a group which would
handle this type of problem - and has cross-language support? Such as
alt.html?

Just because you're using PHP doesn't necessarily make this the "best"
group. And just because you're having a particular (non-php) problem
doesn't mean others have.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

bvdb wrote:

....

Maybe there is someone out there with a practical solution.

>
No, it isn't.

How can you know who is reading and posting in this newsgroup?
Do you have a list of people who is willing to post here?
Seems like you're a very arrogant person.

And it isn't a PHP problem at all.

It's tighly connected to PHP.
PHP offers the header() function and describes in the manual how to use
it to avoid this browser behaviour. So it fits very well into PHP
questions, better than HTML.

Just because you're using PHP doesn't necessarily make this the "best"
group.

But a very good choice. Until you stepped in.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>

>>bvdb wrote:

>
...
>

>>>Maybe there is someone out there with a practical solution.

>>
>>No, it isn't.

>
>
How can you know who is reading and posting in this newsgroup?
Do you have a list of people who is willing to post here?
Seems like you're a very arrogant person.
>

No, I'm trying to direct you to the best possible resource for your
question. But you are too thick-skulled to understand it.

>

>>And it isn't a PHP problem at all.

>
>
It's tighly connected to PHP.
PHP offers the header() function and describes in the manual how to use
it to avoid this browser behaviour. So it fits very well into PHP
questions, better than HTML.
>

No, it's not "tightly connected to PHP". This is strictly HTML and
browser behavior. All the header() function does is send a header to
the browser. This would be exactly the same if the header were
generated in PHP, Perl, VBScript or even HTML itself. PHP has nothing
to do with it other than sending the header (just like the other
languages would have nothing to do with it).

>

>>Just because you're using PHP doesn't necessarily make this the "best"
>>group.

>
>
But a very good choice. Until you stepped in.
>

No, it was not a good choice. Look how many answers you've gotten.

--
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Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

No, I'm trying to direct you to the best possible resource for your
question. But you are too thick-skulled to understand it.

It's not yours or anybodys job to "direct" anybody else to something.
The idea of a newsgroup is: If you have something to say to answer the
question, say it, if not, stay quiet.

No, it's not "tightly connected to PHP". This is strictly HTML and
browser behavior.

Nonsense, obviously you have not read my description.
If it was pure HTML, the same link would fetch the same content and
thus render the same page.
The whole question only makes sense with a server application.

This would be exactly the same if the header were
generated in PHP, Perl, VBScript

Okay. So now it's PHP.

.. or even HTML itself.

HTML cannot generate HTTP-headers like the header()-function does.
You don't know what you're talking about.

No, it was not a good choice. Look how many answers you've gotten.

The thread was poisoned by an arrogant wannabe.
So, sad enough, we can merely expect people with a constructive
attitude to join in (any more).

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Hello,
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>

>>No, I'm trying to direct you to the best possible resource for your
>>question. But you are too thick-skulled to understand it.

>
>
It's not yours or anybodys job to "direct" anybody else to something.
The idea of a newsgroup is: If you have something to say to answer the
question, say it, if not, stay quiet.
>

No, it's not my "job". However, I do try to help people. If it's
something pertinent to this group and I can handle it, I do. If it's
pertinent to this group and I can't, I let someone else. And if there
is a better group to ask the question in, I try to steer the person that
way, even if he being an arrogant asshole.

>

>>No, it's not "tightly connected to PHP". This is strictly HTML and
>>browser behavior.

>
>
Nonsense, obviously you have not read my description.
If it was pure HTML, the same link would fetch the same content and
thus render the same page.
The whole question only makes sense with a server application.
>

Not at all. Something on the server that is completely independent
(i.e. a cron job that runs every 10 seconds) can replace the HTML pages
between requests from the browser. The same link would retrieve
different content every 10 seconds. But it would be static HTML.

>

>>This would be exactly the same if the header were
>>generated in PHP, Perl, VBScript

>
>
Okay. So now it's PHP.
>

Right. It's generated by PHP. But the problem is not a PHP problem.

>

>>.. or even HTML itself.

>
>
HTML cannot generate HTTP-headers like the header()-function does.
You don't know what you're talking about.
>

Actually, I do. Apache/IIS can and does generate EXACTLY the same type
of headers as PHP does. To an IP trace sometime and figure it out. The
only difference is that these headers are preset in the httpd.conf file.
But I doubt you know anything about that.

Unlike you, I've been dealing with webserver intimately for around 15
years - including internals. I know *exactly* what I'm talking about.

>

>>No, it was not a good choice. Look how many answers you've gotten.

>
>
The thread was poisoned by an arrogant wannabe.
So, sad enough, we can merely expect people with a constructive
attitude to join in (any more).
>

Not at all. It was someone who didn't know what newsgroup to ask it in.
There is nothing stopping anyone else from responding.

I'll expect the apology when you get your answer and find it's not a PHP
problem at all. But I know I won't get it. Guys like you never do.

Go ahead - spin your wheels. I don't need to put up with your asinine
abuse. So much for trying to help a complete idiot.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[bvdb]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Jerry Stuckle schrieb:
....

No, it's not my "job". However, I do try to help people.

"Help", hmm. Go out and do some real help.

The whole question only makes sense with a server application.

>
Not at all. Something on the server that is completely independent
(i.e. a cron job that runs every 10 seconds) can replace the HTML pages
between requests from the browser.

:-))

HTML cannot generate HTTP-headers like the header()-function does.
You don't know what you're talking about.

>
Actually, I do. Apache/IIS can and does generate EXACTLY the same type
of headers as PHP does.

Yes, of course, but it is not directed by the HTML code.
And HTML code is what a HTML newsgroup is about.

So much for trying to help a complete idiot.

So you learned something in the end. Fine.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

bvdb wrote:

Jerry Stuckle schrieb:
...
>

>>No, it's not my "job". However, I do try to help people.

>
>
"Help", hmm. Go out and do some real help.
>

I do. Every day. But some people are just too think skulled to accept it.

>

>>>The whole question only makes sense with a server application.

>>
>>Not at all. Something on the server that is completely independent
>>(i.e. a cron job that runs every 10 seconds) can replace the HTML pages
>>between requests from the browser.

>
>
:-))
>
>

>>>HTML cannot generate HTTP-headers like the header()-function does.
>>>You don't know what you're talking about.

>>
>>Actually, I do. Apache/IIS can and does generate EXACTLY the same type
>>of headers as PHP does.

>
>
Yes, of course, but it is not directed by the HTML code.
And HTML code is what a HTML newsgroup is about.
>

Actually, it is. But you wouldn't understand that.

>

>>So much for trying to help a complete idiot.

>
>
So you learned something in the end. Fine.
>

Yea, I learned to dump you in the bozo bin. So long, bozo.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[ctiggerf]

Re: Preventing Browser-caching between Frames

Hmm .. I don't think your problem is the caching at all. But you
didn't supply any code to us so we could actually see it for ourselves.
But curious as I was, I put together a simple example that would show
how someone might accomplish this. Granted there may be much better
ways to accomplish this ... but:


frames.html
---
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>PH P Frame Example</TITLE></HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAME src="links.html " name="links_fra me">
<FRAME src="detail.php " name="details_f rame">
</FRAMESET>
</HTML>
---


links.html:
---
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<body>

- <a href="detail.ph p?id=1" target="details _frame">Row 1</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=2" target="details _frame">Row 2</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=3" target="details _frame">Row 3</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=4" target="details _frame">Row 4</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=5" target="details _frame">Row 5</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=11" target="details _frame">Row 11</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=12" target="details _frame">Row 12</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=13" target="details _frame">Row 13</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=14" target="details _frame">Row 14</a><br>
- <a href="detail.ph p?id=15" target="details _frame">Row 15</a>

</body>
</html>
---


detail.php:
---
<?php
//need a session to store which ones are already highlighted
session_start() ;
$set=$_SESSION['set'];

//see if anything was given to highlight/de-highlight
if(isset($_GET['id'])) {
//see if the id is already set
$pos = strpos($set, ':'.$_GET['id'].':');
if($pos === false) {
//not in the string so put it there
$set .= ':'.$_GET['id'].':';
} else {
//in the string so remove it
$set = str_replace(':' .$_GET['id'].':',"",$set);
}

//now update the session
$_SESSION['set']=$set;
}
?>

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<body>

<style type="text/css">
.h { background-color:#CCCCFF; }
</style>

<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" >
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':1:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row1</td><td>value1</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':2:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row2</td><td>value2</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':3:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row3</td><td>value3</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':4:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row4</td><td>value4</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':5:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row5</td><td>value5</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':11:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row11</td><td>value11</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':12:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row12</td><td>value12</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':13:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row13</td><td>value13</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':14:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row14</td><td>value14</td></tr>
<tr<?php echo strpos($set, ':15:') !== false ? " class='h'" : '';
?>><td>Row15</td><td>value15</td></tr>
</table>

</body>
</html>
---


(This can be viewed at
http://www.eadexchange.com/test/frames/frames.html)

Seems to work fine for me and I don't see any caching issues at all.

So perhaps if you post some code, we can see what you have going on,
and then we may be able to help you. Generally you should always come
up with a simple example that highlights your problem. Because from
just reading your post, (I hate to say it) it doesn't look like a php
problem. Unless your script is jacked, in which case we would need to
see the code.

Another reason that making a simple example is a good idea: I can't
remember how many times in making a simple example, I've solved my
problem. Also people don't have to try and guess what's going on.

One problem you might want to look at is where you are starting your
session (if you're using one, which we wouldn't have to guess if you
supplied example code). It needs to be the first line of code you
execute and come before any html is printed out. In other words you
can't to this:


<html><head>
<?php session_start() ; ?>
.....