htmlentities & charencoding

[Taras_96]

Hi all,

I was hoping to get some clarification on a couple of questions I have:

1) When should htmlspecial characters be used? As a general rule should
it be used for text that may contain special characters that is going
to be rendered in the browser (ie: text that isn't in tags)? I've got a
javascript onclick handler whose code includes an ampersand and the
HTML validator complains. I don't know if I should escape the
ampersand, or even if its possible (seeing that the text is inside a
HTML attribute).

Why would you ever use htmlentities as opposed to htmlspecialchar s? The
only reason I can think of is if you're page's charset doesn't support
the special character you're trying to render (for example, the euro
using Latin1), but then why wouldn't you just change the pages charset
to UTF-8 (unless you're editor can't save in UTF-8, which might
indicate its time to get another editor). The comment on the PHP manual
entry for html entities, 'Please, don't use htmlentities to avoid XSS!
Htmlspecialchar s is enough!' seems to suggest that the uses for
htmlentities is limited, since it needn't be used to avoid XSS.

2) A comment in the PHP manual entry for htmlentities states that their
function can be used to 'replace any characters in a string that could
be 'dangerous' to put in an HTML/XML file with their numeric entities
(e.g. &#233 for [e acute])'. Why would it be dangerous!?

3) What are some typical uses of specifying HTTP input/output character
encoding? If it is used to convert output, why wouldn't you just change
the output page's char encoding? If its used to convert input from say
UTF-8 to Latin1, couldn't you just use a function to do this?

That's about it!

Thanks in advance

Taras

[flamer die.spam@hotmail.com]

Re: htmlentities & charencoding


Taras_96 wrote:

Hi all,
>
I was hoping to get some clarification on a couple of questions I have:
>
1) When should htmlspecial characters be used? As a general rule should
it be used for text that may contain special characters that is going
to be rendered in the browser (ie: text that isn't in tags)? I've got a
javascript onclick handler whose code includes an ampersand and the
HTML validator complains. I don't know if I should escape the
ampersand, or even if its possible (seeing that the text is inside a
HTML attribute).
>

Well.. bascially your either saying show this image to the user
"copyrightsymbo l" OR giving an instruction to the browser to display a
copyright symbol. I think the "dangerous" comment comes from the fact
that often MS will simply blank sometimes when they will display
correctly in *nix or when an undefined notation is used in a page is it
not known what the effect will be on some platforms or how it will be
displayed.

Flamer.

Why would you ever use htmlentities as opposed to htmlspecialchar s? The
only reason I can think of is if you're page's charset doesn't support
the special character you're trying to render (for example, the euro
using Latin1), but then why wouldn't you just change the pages charset
to UTF-8 (unless you're editor can't save in UTF-8, which might
indicate its time to get another editor). The comment on the PHP manual
entry for html entities, 'Please, don't use htmlentities to avoid XSS!
Htmlspecialchar s is enough!' seems to suggest that the uses for
htmlentities is limited, since it needn't be used to avoid XSS.
>
2) A comment in the PHP manual entry for htmlentities states that their
function can be used to 'replace any characters in a string that could
be 'dangerous' to put in an HTML/XML file with their numeric entities
(e.g. &#233 for [e acute])'. Why would it be dangerous!?
>
3) What are some typical uses of specifying HTTP input/output character
encoding? If it is used to convert output, why wouldn't you just change
the output page's char encoding? If its used to convert input from say
UTF-8 to Latin1, couldn't you just use a function to do this?
>
That's about it!
>
Thanks in advance
>
Taras

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: htmlentities & charencoding

Message-ID: <1152576115.197 347.115450@35g2 000cwc.googlegr oups.comfrom
Taras_96 contained the following:

>1) When should htmlspecial characters be used? As a general rule should
>it be used for text that may contain special characters that is going
>to be rendered in the browser (ie: text that isn't in tags)? I've got a
>javascript onclick handler whose code includes an ampersand and the
>HTML validator complains.

The people without javascript will complain too, when they can't
navigate your site.

Just change the ampersand for &amp;
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: htmlentities &amp; charencoding

Taras_96 wrote:

Hi all,
>
I was hoping to get some clarification on a couple of questions I have:
>
1) When should htmlspecial characters be used? As a general rule should
it be used for text that may contain special characters that is going
to be rendered in the browser (ie: text that isn't in tags)? I've got a
javascript onclick handler whose code includes an ampersand and the
HTML validator complains. I don't know if I should escape the
ampersand, or even if its possible (seeing that the text is inside a
HTML attribute).
>

Well, I haven't looked at the code, but I suspect htmlspecialchar s(),
since it converts fewer characters and has fewer options, it would be
faster.

The HTML validator on w3.org is decent, but it doesn't handle javascript
very well. I just ignore the errors in javascript; for instance,
something like:

j=4&i;

The "&i" is not a valid html entity - but it's valid javascript code.
And this javascript wouldn't work:

j = 4%amp;i;

Why would you ever use htmlentities as opposed to htmlspecialchar s? The
only reason I can think of is if you're page's charset doesn't support
the special character you're trying to render (for example, the euro
using Latin1), but then why wouldn't you just change the pages charset
to UTF-8 (unless you're editor can't save in UTF-8, which might
indicate its time to get another editor). The comment on the PHP manual
entry for html entities, 'Please, don't use htmlentities to avoid XSS!
Htmlspecialchar s is enough!' seems to suggest that the uses for
htmlentities is limited, since it needn't be used to avoid XSS.
>

Just changing the page charset doesn't change what PHP uses. You can
pass a charset to either function, but if you need more than the five
chars handled by htmlspecialchar s() you need to use htmlentities().

And the notes are comments - from users, not the PHP developers. I give
it some credence, but not as much as the "official" word from the PHP
developers. And if you look through them enough, you'll find errors and
other people who get in and correct the errors. Not that much different
than what you find here on usenet.

2) A comment in the PHP manual entry for htmlentities states that their
function can be used to 'replace any characters in a string that could
be 'dangerous' to put in an HTML/XML file with their numeric entities
(e.g. &#233 for [e acute])'. Why would it be dangerous!?
>

Don't know here, but I suspect browsers may act differently in different
languages. But I have enough trouble with my native language, so I
really haven't worried about it. But again that's a user comment.

3) What are some typical uses of specifying HTTP input/output character
encoding? If it is used to convert output, why wouldn't you just change
the output page's char encoding? If its used to convert input from say
UTF-8 to Latin1, couldn't you just use a function to do this?
>

I use it anytime I'm displaying data input by the user, read from a
database, etc. You never know when the data might contain a '<', a '"',
etc.

Changing the char encoding for the page doesn't convert any characters.
All it does is tell the browser how to handle the characters. It's up
to you, the programmer, to ensure the character encoding you use matches
that of the page.

That's about it!
>
Thanks in advance
>
Taras
>

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mel]

Re: htmlentities &amp; charencoding

On 2006-07-11 21:52:53 +1000, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.netsaid:

Taras_96 wrote:

>Hi all,
>>
>I was hoping to get some clarification on a couple of questions I have:
>>
>1) When should htmlspecial characters be used? As a general rule should
>it be used for text that may contain special characters that is going
>to be rendered in the browser (ie: text that isn't in tags)? I've got a
>javascript onclick handler whose code includes an ampersand and the
>HTML validator complains. I don't know if I should escape the
>ampersand, or even if its possible (seeing that the text is inside a
>HTML attribute).
>>

>
Well, I haven't looked at the code, but I suspect htmlspecialchar s(),
since it converts fewer characters and has fewer options, it would be
faster.
>
The HTML validator on w3.org is decent, but it doesn't handle
javascript very well. I just ignore the errors in javascript; for
instance, something like:
>
j=4&i;
>
The "&i" is not a valid html entity - but it's valid javascript code.
And this javascript wouldn't work:
>
j = 4%amp;i;

No, it wouldn't, but valid XHTML _requires_ you to preclude the
embedded JavaScript with the appropriate CDATA marker. The character
'&' is reserved by the markup just like '>' and '<'. Not adhering to
the outlined standards simply encourages bad markup and makes
cross-browser compatibility more difficult. It's a big stretch to
equate cross-browser issues with unencoded ampersands, but it's not
that difficult to deal with. Javascript has some functional string
methods for encoding HTML entities.

>
>

>Why would you ever use htmlentities as opposed to htmlspecialchar s? The
>only reason I can think of is if you're page's charset doesn't support
>the special character you're trying to render (for example, the euro
>using Latin1), but then why wouldn't you just change the pages charset
>to UTF-8 (unless you're editor can't save in UTF-8, which might
>indicate its time to get another editor). The comment on the PHP manual
>entry for html entities, 'Please, don't use htmlentities to avoid XSS!
>Htmlspecialcha rs is enough!' seems to suggest that the uses for
>htmlentities is limited, since it needn't be used to avoid XSS.
>>

>
Just changing the page charset doesn't change what PHP uses. You can
pass a charset to either function, but if you need more than the five
chars handled by htmlspecialchar s() you need to use htmlentities().
>
And the notes are comments - from users, not the PHP developers. I
give it some credence, but not as much as the "official" word from the
PHP developers. And if you look through them enough, you'll find
errors and other people who get in and correct the errors. Not that
much different than what you find here on usenet.
>

>2) A comment in the PHP manual entry for htmlentities states that their
>function can be used to 'replace any characters in a string that could
>be 'dangerous' to put in an HTML/XML file with their numeric entities
>(e.g. &#233 for [e acute])'. Why would it be dangerous!?
>>

>
Don't know here, but I suspect browsers may act differently in
different languages. But I have enough trouble with my native
language, so I really haven't worried about it. But again that's a
user comment.
>

>3) What are some typical uses of specifying HTTP input/output character
>encoding? If it is used to convert output, why wouldn't you just change
>the output page's char encoding? If its used to convert input from say
>UTF-8 to Latin1, couldn't you just use a function to do this?
>>

>
I use it anytime I'm displaying data input by the user, read from a
database, etc. You never know when the data might contain a '<', a
'"', etc.
>
Changing the char encoding for the page doesn't convert any characters.
All it does is tell the browser how to handle the characters. It's
up to you, the programmer, to ensure the character encoding you use
matches that of the page.
>
>

>That's about it!
>>
>Thanks in advance
>>
>Taras

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: htmlentities &amp; charencoding

Mel wrote:

On 2006-07-11 21:52:53 +1000, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.netsaid:
>

>>
>Well, I haven't looked at the code, but I suspect htmlspecialchar s(),
>since it converts fewer characters and has fewer options, it would be
>faster.
>>
>The HTML validator on w3.org is decent, but it doesn't handle
>javascript very well. I just ignore the errors in javascript; for
>instance, something like:
>>
> j=4&i;
>>
>The "&i" is not a valid html entity - but it's valid javascript code.
>And this javascript wouldn't work:
>>
> j = 4%amp;i;

>
>
No, it wouldn't, but valid XHTML _requires_ you to preclude the embedded
JavaScript with the appropriate CDATA marker. The character '&' is
reserved by the markup just like '>' and '<'. Not adhering to the
outlined standards simply encourages bad markup and makes cross-browser
compatibility more difficult. It's a big stretch to equate cross-browser
issues with unencoded ampersands, but it's not that difficult to deal
with. Javascript has some functional string methods for encoding HTML
entities.
>

Who said anything about XHTML? This is straight html.

And the point is - this is valid javascript, but the validator on w3.org
doesn't recognize it as such. Therefore it spits out errors where there
are none.



--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Andy Hassall]

Re: htmlentities &amp; charencoding

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:36:20 -0400, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.net>
wrote:

>Mel wrote:

>On 2006-07-11 21:52:53 +1000, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.netsaid:
>>

>>The HTML validator on w3.org is decent, but it doesn't handle
>>javascript very well. I just ignore the errors in javascript; for
>>instance, something like:
>>>
>> j=4&i;
>>>
>>The "&i" is not a valid html entity - but it's valid javascript code.
>>And this javascript wouldn't work:
>>>
>> j = 4%amp;i;

>>
>No, it wouldn't, but valid XHTML _requires_ you to preclude the embedded
>JavaScript with the appropriate CDATA marker. The character '&' is
>reserved by the markup just like '>' and '<'. Not adhering to the
>outlined standards simply encourages bad markup and makes cross-browser
>compatibilit y more difficult. It's a big stretch to equate cross-browser
>issues with unencoded ampersands, but it's not that difficult to deal
>with. Javascript has some functional string methods for encoding HTML
>entities.

>
>Who said anything about XHTML? This is straight html.
>
>And the point is - this is valid javascript, but the validator on w3.org
>doesn't recognize it as such. Therefore it spits out errors where there
>are none.

Yes, this seems to be backed up by HTML 4.01 appendix B.3.2, which even has an
example of the contents of a <scriptelemen t in VBScript using & as a string
concatenation operator.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#notes-specifying-data

It discusses how to avoid accidentally closing the <scriptelemen t, but seems
to indicate that & doesn't start a character reference inside <script>, as
that's automatically CDATA. So validators producing errors in this case would
appear to be wrong.

However, validator.w3.or g currently handles the example given without error. I
uploaded the following:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Strict //EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-15">
<title>Page</title>
</head>
<body>

<script type="text/javascript">
j=4&i;
</script>

</body>
</html>

It responded:

This Page Is Valid -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Strict //EN!

(it also validates as Transitional, unsurprisingly) Has its behaviour changed
recently? Did it used to produce errors in this case?

The "HTML Tidy" validator as used in the HTML Validator Firefox extension also
accepts & within <scriptwithou t complaint, and correctly complains about "</"
appearing in the script source.

--
Andy Hassall :: andy@andyh.co.u k :: http://www.andyh.co.uk
http://www.andyhsoftware.co.uk/space :: disk and FTP usage analysis tool

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: htmlentities &amp; charencoding

Andy Hassall wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:36:20 -0400, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.net>
wrote:
>
>

>>Mel wrote:
>>

>>>On 2006-07-11 21:52:53 +1000, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attg lobal.netsaid:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The HTML validator on w3.org is decent, but it doesn't handle
>>>>javascrip t very well. I just ignore the errors in javascript; for
>>>>instance, something like:
>>>>
>>> j=4&i;
>>>>
>>>>The "&i" is not a valid html entity - but it's valid javascript code.
>>>>And this javascript wouldn't work:
>>>>
>>> j = 4%amp;i;
>>>
>>>No, it wouldn't, but valid XHTML _requires_ you to preclude the embedded
>>>JavaScript with the appropriate CDATA marker. The character '&' is
>>>reserved by the markup just like '>' and '<'. Not adhering to the
>>>outlined standards simply encourages bad markup and makes cross-browser
>>>compatibilit y more difficult. It's a big stretch to equate cross-browser
>>>issues with unencoded ampersands, but it's not that difficult to deal
>>>with. Javascript has some functional string methods for encoding HTML
>>>entities.

>>
>>Who said anything about XHTML? This is straight html.
>>
>>And the point is - this is valid javascript, but the validator on w3.org
>>doesn't recognize it as such. Therefore it spits out errors where there
>>are none.

>
>
Yes, this seems to be backed up by HTML 4.01 appendix B.3.2, which even has an
example of the contents of a <scriptelemen t in VBScript using & as a string
concatenation operator.
>

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#notes-specifying-data

>
It discusses how to avoid accidentally closing the <scriptelemen t, but seems
to indicate that & doesn't start a character reference inside <script>, as
that's automatically CDATA. So validators producing errors in this case would
appear to be wrong.
>
However, validator.w3.or g currently handles the example given without error. I
uploaded the following:
>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Strict //EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-15">
<title>Page</title>
</head>
<body>
>
<script type="text/javascript">
j=4&i;
</script>
>
</body>
</html>
>
It responded:
>
This Page Is Valid -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Strict //EN!
>
(it also validates as Transitional, unsurprisingly) Has its behaviour changed
recently? Did it used to produce errors in this case?
>
The "HTML Tidy" validator as used in the HTML Validator Firefox extension also
accepts & within <scriptwithou t complaint, and correctly complains about "</"
appearing in the script source.
>

Andy,

They might have fixed it. I hope so. I've had problems with it before.
I just ignore any errors within <scriptelements .


--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===