Predominant PHP Websites?

[Google Mike]

Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
me to get something accomplished.

[Cameron]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

Google Mike wrote:[color=blue]
> Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
> me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> me to get something accomplished.[/color]

Only website I can name off hand is Tripod (www.tripod.com) and who told
you PHP is insecure and not scalable? that's laughable, prolly ASP
fantatics.

~Cameron

[Justin Koivisto]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

Google Mike wrote:
[color=blue]
> Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
> me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> me to get something accomplished.[/color]

Here's a snippet of something I pulled up in a Google search:

www.sourceforge.net (30 millions pv/month)

www.audiogalaxy.com (Napster follow-up, dozens of millions per/month)

http://livebid.amazon.com (a part of Amazon.com, bet has a good traffic)

http://mp3.lycos.com (One of the largest MP3 search engines in the world
by Lycos. Their traffic but must be measured in several dozens of
millions pv/mon)

http://xoom.com (a huge online multi-service site. the #1 competitor to
GeoCities)

www.capitalone.com (well known credit card company)

www.ecrush.com (14 million hits a month on avg)

www.bangable.com (4 million page views a month. All PHP/mySQL)

www.amdmb.com (uses MySQL and PHP for everything. 5 million pages/mon)

www.insight.com (is a publicly traded fortune 1000 company. The site is
90% PHP)

www.ig.com.br (the 3rd largest Brazilian portal)

www.goeureka.com.au/super.php (AltaVista in Australia)

www.kinderstart.com (Major children's portal. PHP and mySQL and some Perl.)

www.marketplayer.com (provides the real-time stock market simulations
for sites like etrade.com and smartmoney.com that have these games)

www.dc.com (Deloitte Consulting)

www.dialpad.com (user registration and member backend is PHP driven)

www.thewb.com (uses PHP for the interactive areas such as message
boards, polls, etc.)

also:

https://www.nbci.com

https://www.sprint.ca

https://www.ElectronicArts.com

https://www.f2s.com

https://www.indy500.com

https://www.planetsourceocde.com

https://www.easydns.com

https://www.admworld.com

https://www.communityconnect.com

https://www.viant.com

https://www.chek.com

https://www.yahoo.com

Also, IIRC, Google uses PHP as well. Don't take my word for it though.

--
Justin Koivisto - spam@koivi.com
PHP POSTERS: Please use comp.lang.php for PHP related questions,
alt.php* groups are not recommended.
Official Google SERPs SEO Competition: http://www.koivi.com/serps.php

[CountScubula]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

"Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...[color=blue]
> Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
> me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> me to get something accomplished.[/color]


Any scripting language can be used in a scaled system, scalling architecture
is up to your developer and his skill level. I personaly use PHP/HTTP to
scale large systems, with intercomunicati ons over http. When scaling a large
system, the sytem sits on the back channel on its own private network. Only
the web servers are front line, and you can use anything you want on those,
even ASP (I would not however).

So for security, a page is only as secure as the carelessness of the
developer.

So I have a question, when you say PHP can't scale, are you comparing this
to something you think can scale?

--
Mike Bradley
http://www.gzentools.com -- free online php tools

[Joshua Beall]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

"Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...[color=blue]
> Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
> me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> me to get something accomplished.[/color]

Here's a nice list:

http://zend.com/customers.php

Now, just because they are customers of Zend does not necessarily mean they
use PHP... but I am not sure why you would be a customer of Zend unless you
are using PHP. KnowhutImeanVer n?

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

Justin Koivisto <spam@koivi.com > wrote in message news:<F1RUb.40$ sS3.1491@news7. onvoy.net>...[color=blue]
> Google Mike wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> > trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> > setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> > Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> > hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure.[/color][/color]

I couldn't understand why most of the people say so. One of my good
friends who is working in one of topnotch companies (which means 20-50
times pay and less work) here in India often used to tell: "we choose
the technologies which is more complex so that we may spend 1 year for
training, another years to develop and maintain!!!". Another guy I met
told me that PHP has high readability (which he referred as a flaw for
security!! I suggested him to go for Assembly)

Yet, I haven't found any risks that is possible only in PHP. Chung
Leong's thread on security risk says security holes in usual web
development process; and I don't think, they're only for PHP.

Probably, we should ask Yahoo! Engineers about the scalability. It
seems Yahoo! dropped PHP (but not sure).
[color=blue][color=green]
> > It bothers
> > me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> > RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> > me to get something accomplished.[/color]
>
> Here's a snippet of something I pulled up in a Google search:
>
> www.sourceforge.net (30 millions pv/month)
>
> www.audiogalaxy.com (Napster follow-up, dozens of millions per/month)
>
> http://livebid.amazon.com (a part of Amazon.com, bet has a good traffic)
>
> http://mp3.lycos.com (One of the largest MP3 search engines in the world
> by Lycos. Their traffic but must be measured in several dozens of
> millions pv/mon)
>
> http://xoom.com (a huge online multi-service site. the #1 competitor to
> GeoCities)
>
> www.capitalone.com (well known credit card company)
>
> www.ecrush.com (14 million hits a month on avg)
>
> www.bangable.com (4 million page views a month. All PHP/mySQL)
>
> www.amdmb.com (uses MySQL and PHP for everything. 5 million pages/mon)
>
> www.insight.com (is a publicly traded fortune 1000 company. The site is
> 90% PHP)
>
> www.ig.com.br (the 3rd largest Brazilian portal)
>
> www.goeureka.com.au/super.php (AltaVista in Australia)
>
> www.kinderstart.com (Major children's portal. PHP and mySQL and some Perl.)
>
> www.marketplayer.com (provides the real-time stock market simulations
> for sites like etrade.com and smartmoney.com that have these games)
>
> www.dc.com (Deloitte Consulting)
>
> www.dialpad.com (user registration and member backend is PHP driven)
>
> www.thewb.com (uses PHP for the interactive areas such as message
> boards, polls, etc.)
>
> also:
> www.nbci.com
> www.sprint.ca
> www.ElectronicArts.com
> www.f2s.com
> www.indy500.com
> www.planetsourceocde.com
> www.easydns.com
> www.admworld.com
> www.communityconnect.com
> www.viant.com
> www.chek.com
> www.yahoo.com[/color]

Great!!
[color=blue]
> Also, IIRC, Google uses PHP as well. Don't take my word for it though.[/color]

Yes, Google uses PHP at least in few pages.
<http://toolbar.google. com/whatsnew.php3>
<http://toolbar.google. com/failed.php>

Previously I have seen lot of PHP pages in
<http://hotjobs.yahoo.c om/>. Even, when I sniffed, I found Apache
server signature. But, right now, I couldn't see any PHP extensions on
their pages (may be they've changed their filenaming conventions??).
And, a HTTP sniffing returns "Netscape Enterprise" as server string.
So, what happened to Yahoo!? PHP/Apache didn't scale?? :-/

--
"Success = 10% sweat + 90% tears"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Tony Marston]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

Here is an article on the "PHP doesn't scale" myth:

http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/10/15/php_scalability.html

Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net/

"Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...[color=blue]
> Can anyone list any Fortune 1000 companies using PHP websites? I'm
> trying to convince management that PHP can scale and be secure if it's
> setup and coded properly, and that if you go the next mile with
> Zend.com, you can take it even further. This is a consistent thing I
> hear, unfortunately, that PHP can't scale and isn't secure. It bothers
> me because I'm now getting extremely adept at 4.2.2 (which comes with
> RH9) and have loved the speed of the web pages and how fast it is for
> me to get something accomplished.[/color]

[Chung Leong]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

PHP doesn't scale well in terms of complexity. Doesn't really cut it when
you're building an application that needs a lot of unnecessary structure and
abstraction. There aren't enough interfacing elements between parts of the
system. The API is not hierarchical enough. And the fact that so many
functionalities are built-in leaves you with little--if any--third-party
components to integrate into the application.

Uzytkownik "CountScubu la" <me@scantek.hot mail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:_WRUb.2098 4$Wp4.4357@news svr27.news.prod igy.com...[color=blue]
> "Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
> news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...
> Any scripting language can be used in a scaled system, scalling[/color]
architecture[color=blue]
> is up to your developer and his skill level. I personaly use PHP/HTTP to
> scale large systems, with intercomunicati ons over http. When scaling a[/color]
large[color=blue]
> system, the sytem sits on the back channel on its own private network.[/color]
Only[color=blue]
> the web servers are front line, and you can use anything you want on[/color]
those,[color=blue]
> even ASP (I would not however).
>
> So for security, a page is only as secure as the carelessness of the
> developer.
>
> So I have a question, when you say PHP can't scale, are you comparing this
> to something you think can scale?
>
> --
> Mike Bradley
> http://www.gzentools.com -- free online php tools
>
>[/color]

[Tony Marston]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?


"Chung Leong" <chernyshevsky@ hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3tednZ9M_p fp3rjdRVn-jg@comcast.com. ..[color=blue]
> PHP doesn't scale well in terms of complexity.[/color]

Only if you make your application more complex than it need be.
[color=blue]
> Doesn't really cut it when
> you're building an application that needs a lot of unnecessary structure[/color]
and[color=blue]
> abstraction.[/color]

If this structure is "unnecessar y" then how can you build an application
that "neds" it? The two terms are contradictory and therefore mutually
exclusive.
[color=blue]
> There aren't enough interfacing elements between parts of the
> system.[/color]

Then build your own interfaces.
[color=blue]
> The API is not hierarchical enough.[/color]

Why should the API be hierarchical?
[color=blue]
> And the fact that so many
> functionalities are built-in leaves you with little--if any--third-party
> components to integrate into the application.[/color]

Other people do not seem to have a problem with creating or using
third-party components.

You arguments are not very persuasive, are they?

Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net/

[color=blue]
> Uzytkownik "CountScubu la" <me@scantek.hot mail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> news:_WRUb.2098 4$Wp4.4357@news svr27.news.prod igy.com...[color=green]
> > "Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
> > news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...
> > Any scripting language can be used in a scaled system, scalling[/color]
> architecture[color=green]
> > is up to your developer and his skill level. I personaly use PHP/HTTP to
> > scale large systems, with intercomunicati ons over http. When scaling a[/color]
> large[color=green]
> > system, the sytem sits on the back channel on its own private network.[/color]
> Only[color=green]
> > the web servers are front line, and you can use anything you want on[/color]
> those,[color=green]
> > even ASP (I would not however).
> >
> > So for security, a page is only as secure as the carelessness of the
> > developer.
> >
> > So I have a question, when you say PHP can't scale, are you comparing[/color][/color]
this[color=blue][color=green]
> > to something you think can scale?
> >
> > --
> > Mike Bradley
> > http://www.gzentools.com -- free online php tools
> >
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Eric Bohlman]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

"Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.de mon.co.uk> wrote in
news:c07qin$39b $1$8302bc10@new s.demon.co.uk:
[color=blue]
> "Chung Leong" <chernyshevsky@ hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3tednZ9M_p fp3rjdRVn-jg@comcast.com. ..[color=green]
>> PHP doesn't scale well in terms of complexity.[/color]
>
> Only if you make your application more complex than it need be.
>[color=green]
>> Doesn't really cut it when
>> you're building an application that needs a lot of unnecessary
>> structure[/color]
> and[color=green]
>> abstraction.[/color]
>
> If this structure is "unnecessar y" then how can you build an
> application that "neds" it? The two terms are contradictory and
> therefore mutually exclusive.[/color]

I've got a modest proposal for you: replace the batteries in your irony
detector.

[Tony Marston]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?


"Eric Bohlman" <ebohlman@earth link.net> wrote in message
news:Xns948A3FE 855DABebohlmano msdevcom@130.13 3.1.17...[color=blue]
> "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.de mon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:c07qin$39b $1$8302bc10@new s.demon.co.uk:
>[color=green]
> > "Chung Leong" <chernyshevsky@ hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3tednZ9M_p fp3rjdRVn-jg@comcast.com. ..[color=darkred]
> >> PHP doesn't scale well in terms of complexity.[/color]
> >
> > Only if you make your application more complex than it need be.
> >[color=darkred]
> >> Doesn't really cut it when
> >> you're building an application that needs a lot of unnecessary
> >> structure[/color]
> > and[color=darkred]
> >> abstraction.[/color]
> >
> > If this structure is "unnecessar y" then how can you build an
> > application that "neds" it? The two terms are contradictory and
> > therefore mutually exclusive.[/color]
>
> I've got a modest proposal for you: replace the batteries in your irony
> detector.[/color]

I don't use batteries. Being ultra-modern I use solar cells.

That explains why it doesn't work when the sun isn't shining. :)

Tony Marston

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

[Top-post fixed]

"Chung Leong" <chernyshevsky@ hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3tednZ9M_ pfp3rjdRVn-jg@comcast.com> ...[color=blue]
> Uzytkownik "CountScubu la" <me@scantek.hot mail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> news:_WRUb.2098 4$Wp4.4357@news svr27.news.prod igy.com...[color=green]
> > "Google Mike" <googlemike@hot pop.com> wrote in message
> > news:25d8d6a8.0 402060956.896b9 ca@posting.goog le.com...
> > Any scripting language can be used in a scaled system, scalling[/color]
> architecture[color=green]
> > is up to your developer and his skill level. I personaly use PHP/HTTP to
> > scale large systems, with intercomunicati ons over http. When scaling a[/color]
> large[color=green]
> > system, the sytem sits on the back channel on its own private network.[/color]
> Only[color=green]
> > the web servers are front line, and you can use anything you want on[/color]
> those,[color=green]
> > even ASP (I would not however).
> >
> > So for security, a page is only as secure as the carelessness of the
> > developer.
> >
> > So I have a question, when you say PHP can't scale, are you comparing this
> > to something you think can scale?[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> PHP doesn't scale well in terms of complexity. Doesn't really cut it when
> you're building an application that needs a lot of unnecessary structure and
> abstraction. There aren't enough interfacing elements between parts of the
> system. The API is not hierarchical enough. And the fact that so many
> functionalities are built-in leaves you with little--if any--third-party
> components to integrate into the application.[/color]

Could you please substantiate your views? I hear, few people say
as you. But, I'm interested to know, in what kind of "complex"
projects it is true.

BTW, *please please please* don't top-post. Top-posting makes your
valuable comments less/poor readable.

--
"Success = 10% sweat + 90% tears"
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

[just a follow up to my own message]

ng4rrjanbiah@re diffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah) wrote in message news:<abc4d8b8. 0402070022.36ef 9b1a@posting.go ogle.com>...
<snip>[color=blue]
> Previously I have seen lot of PHP pages in
> <http://hotjobs.yahoo.c om/>. Even, when I sniffed, I found Apache
> server signature. But, right now, I couldn't see any PHP extensions on
> their pages (may be they've changed their filenaming conventions??).
> And, a HTTP sniffing returns "Netscape Enterprise" as server string.
> So, what happened to Yahoo!? PHP/Apache didn't scale?? :-/[/color]

Just stopped by Rasmus's resume <http://lerdorf.com/resume/> which
says he is training Yahoo! Engineers. So, it seems Yahoo! is using
PHP.

--
"Success = 10% sweat + 90% tears"
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Google Mike]

Re: Predominant PHP Websites?

This is excellent news. I'm passing it on now to my supervisor's
supervisor, who was grossly misinformed on this issue. Likewise, I
found out that Zend has performance and security enhancement add-ons
that can be purchased and applied.