PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

[jm]

Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from
(still using really) ASP and ASP.NET. PHP is more like ASP and not a
whole lot like .net, but I wanted to know how Dreamweaver will help me
with PHP. Is it easier to make a website "prettier" with Dreamweaver?
Just need guidance on why to use Dreamweaver with PHP. I am using
HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages
and objects for hitting databases.

I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
combo might just be the ticket.

Thanks.

[Jeffrey Silverman]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:33:58 -0800, jm wrote:
[color=blue]
> Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from
> (still using really) ASP and ASP.NET. PHP is more like ASP and not a
> whole lot like .net, but I wanted to know how Dreamweaver will help me
> with PHP. Is it easier to make a website "prettier" with Dreamweaver?
> Just need guidance on why to use Dreamweaver with PHP. I am using
> HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages and
> objects for hitting databases.
>
> I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
> combo might just be the ticket.
>
> Thanks.[/color]

Dreamweaver is a tool like any other. It will not add talent. If we take
the artist aspect here, consider dreamweaver to be a fancy paintbrush. If
you can't paint, it ain't gonna help.

OTOH, there are probably some pre-built HTML templates out there that may
be a good start. Or even better, find a design of a page you really like
and steal it. That's what all great artists do, anyways. (Well, great
artists are able to steal stuff and make everyone *think* they came up
with it themselves. Its the last bit that separates the great artisit
from the merely good artist. But I digress)

I personally will *never* ever ever use dreamweaver because it fucks with
my code too much. I use Vi. Gvim, actually. But there are a gajillion
macros and whatnot available to speed up coding.

I'd say, stick with HTML Kit et.al. and steal some designs.

later...

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Larry Jaques]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:06:37 -0500, Jeffrey Silverman
<jeffrey@jhu.ed u> brought forth from the murky depths:
[color=blue]
>On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:33:58 -0800, jm wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from[/color][/color]
-snip-[color=blue]
>
>I personally will *never* ever ever use dreamweaver because it fucks with
>my code too much. I use Vi. Gvim, actually. But there are a gajillion
>macros and whatnot available to speed up coding.
>
>I'd say, stick with HTML Kit et.al. and steal some designs.[/color]

Ditto that. My rollovers take a dozen lines, dreamweeper's take
over one hundred for the same page. Not to mention the 9-week
(if you're good) learning curve. I use NoteTabPro and have never
seen what others like in DW.


------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development

[JimC]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed


"Jeffrey Silverman" <jeffrey@jhu.ed u> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.0 2.03.15.06.36.5 11761@jhu.edu.. .[color=blue]
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:33:58 -0800, jm wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from
> > (still using really) ASP and ASP.NET. PHP is more like ASP and not a
> > whole lot like .net, but I wanted to know how Dreamweaver will help me
> > with PHP. Is it easier to make a website "prettier" with Dreamweaver?[/color][/color]

Yes.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Just need guidance on why to use Dreamweaver with PHP.[/color][/color]

Instant verification of results. If you have PHP installed, you have a
Web server installed. To see the results of your PHP, select
the file you want to serve, and press F12 (the 12th Function
key). It'll upload to the browser you specified in the Dreamweaver
setup. You can change the browser if you wish. Version 7
lets you use two browsers which for many users will be
IE and Netscape.

(For what it's worth, I keep statistics on visitors' browsers. Internet
Explorer constitutes about over 90% of my visitors' browsers...
even for subjects and certain non-public pages that are of
interest only to Linux and UNIX users.)

I am using[color=blue][color=green]
> > HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages and
> > objects for hitting databases.
> >
> > I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
> > combo might just be the ticket.
> >
> > Thanks.[/color]
>
> Dreamweaver is a tool like any other. It will not add talent. If we take
> the artist aspect here, consider dreamweaver to be a fancy paintbrush. If
> you can't paint, it ain't gonna help.
>
> OTOH, there are probably some pre-built HTML templates out there that may
> be a good start. Or even better, find a design of a page you really like
> and steal it. That's what all great artists do, anyways. (Well, great
> artists are able to steal stuff and make everyone *think* they came up
> with it themselves. Its the last bit that separates the great artisit
> from the merely good artist. But I digress)[/color]

Dreamweaver lets you add HTML features, styles and integrate with
so-called dynamic pages (that is, server pages such as PHP, Java, and Perl,
or ASP) so effortlessly that I wouldn't consider using anything else. Most
automatic
editing can be turned on and off with Edit->Preferences. But you should
still learn to edit your HTML code which Dreamweaver like any
decent Web authoring tool lets you do easily. One reason for using
a Web authoring tool -- and here Dreamweaver performs with the
best -- is that you're assured of winding up with balanced
<tags>...</tags> and with fairly easy to read indented HTML
code when you enter and delete features in Design View. But
to delete <br> tags (which are usually imbalanced) and <p> tags (which
*must* be balanced to perform correctly in all browsers), you'll
have to resort to editing your HTML files.

And you get a valid validation in the bargain... except in one area. If you
use Flash's own HTML generator to integrate a Flash movie into an HTML
file, the Dreamweaver validation marks it as an error. Whoa, horsey!
Dreamweaver and Flash of course come out of the same software stable.

I do have some criticisms of the Layer feature in Dreamweaver which
doesn't permit you switch easily between absolute and relative positioning
in Design View. There, you may have to edit your HTML code. But
there we're only talking about changing one word in the code.

--

Completely unrelated to all this, I am presently adding about one
software project per week at my own site. There are some PHP
goodies which may be of interest to Web authors. And then, maybe
not. You can view at

http://www.cross-comp.com/pages/software

My main interest is in "computatio nal" software, things like
list-searching, queueing, expert systems, and FFTs, but
I've got so much graphical stuff lying around that I thought
I'd start posting it and it's likely to wind up on this page.

If you like, send me an e-mail, and if you don't like,
send me one, too.


Jim

[Jeffrey Silverman]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:19:20 +0000, JimC wrote:
[color=blue]
> View. But to delete <br> tags (which are usually imbalanced) and <p> tags
> (which *must* be balanced to perform correctly in all browsers), you'll
> have to resort to editing your HTML files.[/color]

How can you have an imbalance of <br> tags? They are a singular tag.

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Dan Tripp]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

/snip
[color=blue]
> Instant verification of results. If you have PHP installed, you have a
> Web server installed. To see the results of your PHP, select
> the file you want to serve, and press F12 (the 12th Function
> key). It'll upload to the browser you specified in the Dreamweaver
> setup. You can change the browser if you wish. Version 7
> lets you use two browsers which for many users will be
> IE and Netscape.[/color]

I'm going to have to fire it back up and check this out. I'm lame about
reading tutorials, so sometimes I miss obviously cool stuff like that.
Thanks! =)

[color=blue]
> (For what it's worth, I keep statistics on visitors' browsers. Internet
> Explorer constitutes about over 90% of my visitors' browsers...
> even for subjects and certain non-public pages that are of
> interest only to Linux and UNIX users.)[/color]

I don't think that proves that 90% of your visitors are actually using
IE, just that that's what 90% of the browsers that visit your site send
as a User Agent string. For example, Opera (I think) sends an IE User
Agent string so that it's not automatically rejected from using sites
that detect for versions of IE/Mozilla. In Mozilla, there's a utility
that lets you change the UA string on the fly.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages and
>>>objects for hitting databases.
>>>
>>>I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
>>>combo might just be the ticket.[/color][/color][/color]

Instead of looking for a tool to improve your design, you should learn
about design. It's not rocket science, the same way that coding isn't
rocket science.

All art works the same way... you start out, and your early stuff sucks.
If you keep at it, and keep trying, it will gradually improve. If you
do it long enough, you'll probably get good at it. To me, coding is art
just as much as painting is art. Just in a different medium.

[color=blue][color=green]
>>Dreamweaver is a tool like any other. It will not add talent. If we take
>>the artist aspect here, consider dreamweaver to be a fancy paintbrush. If
>>you can't paint, it ain't gonna help.[/color][/color]

Same concept as buying a super-expensive camera and thinking your
pictures will automatically be artistically superior. Current low-end
cameras are technologically superior to the cameras Walker Evans used,
but I'm not a better photographer than he is by virtue of the fact that
my camera is technologically superior. (I'm just plain ole not a better
photographer than his is! ;) )

[color=blue][color=green]
>>OTOH, there are probably some pre-built HTML templates out there that may
>>be a good start. Or even better, find a design of a page you really like
>>and steal it. That's what all great artists do, anyways. (Well, great[/color][/color]

Um, not exactly. There's a difference between stealing something and
using something as a source of instruction/inspiration. For example, I
regularly look at source code to figure out how somebody
solved/accomplished something, but I don't outright take what they've
done and claim it was my own work. Just like I don't save HTML source
and replace the content, then say "here's my web site" (and I've got the
ugly web site to prove it, damn it! ;) ). There's a big difference
there, and it's not purely semantic.

The statement that "all great artists STEAL" is thoroughly appalling to
me. While it's true that "there's nothing new under the sun," the
creative process includes taking what you're given and what you know and
turning it into something you've done. I took a picture of the Golden
Gate Bridge. Is my photograph any less valid as a piece of art because
someone else thought of doing that first? No. If my photograph was
very similar to someone else's, have I stolen it? No. If I find
inspiration in someone else's photograph of the Golden Gate Bridge and
try to apply that style to my own pictures of the same subject, I'm
*still* not stealing. If I copy their work and try to pass it off as
mine... that's stealing.

[color=blue]
> Dreamweaver lets you add HTML features, styles and integrate with
> so-called dynamic pages (that is, server pages such as PHP, Java, and Perl,
> or ASP) so effortlessly that I wouldn't consider using anything else. Most[/color]

This is the thing that I saw in Dreamweaver that kinda interested me.
You can create little snippet libraries and whatnot and just drop them
in. I'm still addicted to Homesite though... and while Dreamweaver HTML
has improved somewhat, I'm still not a fan of editing with it.

Original poster: you should download the eval. version of Dreamweaver
and give it a try. If you don't like it, try something else. =)

Regards,

- Dan

http://blog.dantripp.com/

[Jeffrey Silverman]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 01:30:12 +0000, Dan Tripp wrote:
[color=blue]
> The statement that "all great artists STEAL" is thoroughly appalling to
> me. While it's true that "there's nothing new under the sun," the
> creative process includes taking what you're given and what you know and
> turning it into something you've done.[/color]

You say tomato, I say... um, stealing.

I knew some semanitcs-focused anal-retentives would latch onto the use of
the word steal. So try this, change "steal" to "imitate" or "pattern
after" or "copy" or "paraphrase " or "simulate".

later...!

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

john_20_28_2000 @yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message news:<c67e4bdd. 0402021933.36a1 0482@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue]
> Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from
> (still using really) ASP and ASP.NET. PHP is more like ASP and not a
> whole lot like .net, but I wanted to know how Dreamweaver will help me
> with PHP. Is it easier to make a website "prettier" with Dreamweaver?
> Just need guidance on why to use Dreamweaver with PHP. I am using
> HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages
> and objects for hitting databases.
>
> I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
> combo might just be the ticket.[/color]

I use both DW and PHPEdit
(<http://www.phpedit.net/products/PHPEdit>). DW for HTML templating
and design. DW has PHP support too, but it is not good as in PHPEdit.
DW is memory hungry, most of the times it mess up/un-indent PHP codes
esp my favourite short-tags. In DW it is easy to figure out HTML
syntax errors like mark up validation, link checking etc and can
easily preview. But, for hard PHP coding like coding with objects, it
is better to use PHPEdit.

--
"Success = 10% sweat + 90% tears"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[JimC]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed


"R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng4rrjanbiah@r ediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:abc4d8b8.0 402041153.464e7 932@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> john_20_28_2000 @yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message[/color]
news:<c67e4bdd. 0402021933.36a1 0482@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Somebody on here recommended Dreamweaver with PHP. I am coming from
> > (still using really) ASP and ASP.NET. PHP is more like ASP and not a
> > whole lot like .net, but I wanted to know how Dreamweaver will help me
> > with PHP. Is it easier to make a website "prettier" with Dreamweaver?
> > Just need guidance on why to use Dreamweaver with PHP. I am using
> > HTML kit or notepad and, of course, Google. Usually use the languages
> > and objects for hitting databases.
> >
> > I am a good coder, but horrible artist and was hoping the Dreamweaver
> > combo might just be the ticket.[/color]
>
> I use both DW and PHPEdit
> (<http://www.phpedit.net/products/PHPEdit>). DW for HTML templating
> and design. DW has PHP support too, but it is not good as in PHPEdit.
> DW is memory hungry, most of the times it mess up/un-indent PHP codes
> esp my favourite short-tags. In DW it is easy to figure out HTML
> syntax errors like mark up validation, link checking etc and can
> easily preview. But, for hard PHP coding like coding with objects, it
> is better to use PHPEdit.[/color]

For my PHP, I get by with Dreamweaver, and yes it is a RAM hog.

Is there a version of PHPEdit that runs in X on Linux/UNIX? Or do you
know of an IDE for PHP that does run in X? It's so easy to write a half
decent IDE using Tcl/Tk widgets that I just might try my hand. (The
Wind River Tornado IDE for VxWorks is written in Tcl/Tk, or I should
say its guts are.) The hard part is supplying the grammar that enables
prompting, for which the open source PHP interpreter should prove handy.
Of course such a gizmo would also run on Windows! Hmm.


Jim

https://www.cross-comp.com

https://www.cross-comp.com/software

for software goodies.

[JimC]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed


I wrote:
[color=blue]
> Jim
> www.cross-comp.com
> www.cross-comp.com/software
> for software goodies.[/color]


I had just added the bad URL above as a signature. Apologies. The
second line should be

http://www.cross-comp.com/pages/software

Jim

https://www.cross-comp.com

https://www.cross-comp.com/pages/software

for software goodies.

[Dan Tripp]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

Jeffrey Silverman wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 01:30:12 +0000, Dan Tripp wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>The statement that "all great artists STEAL" is thoroughly appalling to
>>me. While it's true that "there's nothing new under the sun," the
>>creative process includes taking what you're given and what you know and
>>turning it into something you've done.[/color]
>
>
> You say tomato, I say... um, stealing.
>
> I knew some semanitcs-focused anal-retentives would latch onto the use of
> the word steal. So try this, change "steal" to "imitate" or "pattern
> after" or "copy" or "paraphrase " or "simulate".
>
> later...!
>[/color]


...|.

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: PHP and Dreamweaver recommendations needed

"JimC" <jimc@cross-comp.com> wrote in message news:<GxgUb.961 4$VW3.5354@news svr29.news.prod igy.com>...[color=blue]
> "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng4rrjanbiah@r ediffmail.com> wrote in message
> news:abc4d8b8.0 402041153.464e7 932@posting.goo gle.com...[color=green]
> > I use both DW and PHPEdit
> > (<http://www.phpedit.net/products/PHPEdit>). DW for HTML templating
> > and design. DW has PHP support too, but it is not good as in PHPEdit.
> > DW is memory hungry, most of the times it mess up/un-indent PHP codes
> > esp my favourite short-tags. In DW it is easy to figure out HTML
> > syntax errors like mark up validation, link checking etc and can
> > easily preview. But, for hard PHP coding like coding with objects, it
> > is better to use PHPEdit.[/color]
>
> For my PHP, I get by with Dreamweaver, and yes it is a RAM hog.
>
> Is there a version of PHPEdit that runs in X on Linux/UNIX?[/color]

No (AFAIK).
[color=blue]
> Or do you
> know of an IDE for PHP that does run in X?[/color]

Zend Studio <http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-studio.php>
But, I haven't tried it in *nix.
[color=blue]
> It's so easy to write a half
> decent IDE using Tcl/Tk widgets that I just might try my hand. (The
> Wind River Tornado IDE for VxWorks is written in Tcl/Tk, or I should
> say its guts are.) The hard part is supplying the grammar that enables
> prompting, for which the open source PHP interpreter should prove handy.
> Of course such a gizmo would also run on Windows! Hmm.[/color]

--
"Success = 10% sweat + 90% tears"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com