PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

[Tack]

OK, I admit it - I'm a FrontPage user ! :-}
Now learning PHP and I LIKE it!
but - anyone had problems or offer advice about integrating PHP with
FrontPage extensions? Specifically avoiding corrupting them?
It seems to be a standard disclaimer from Hosting services that "activation
of FrontPage extensions will limit functionality of the control panel" and
you risk corrupting the Extensions if you activate some of the options....
Nebulous I know.
Thoughts?
thanks
Tim

[CountScubula]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

"Tack" <gottabekiddin@ nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uFrIb.7106 6$aT.45601@news-server.bigpond. net.au...[color=blue]
> OK, I admit it - I'm a FrontPage user ! :-}
> Now learning PHP and I LIKE it!
> but - anyone had problems or offer advice about integrating PHP with
> FrontPage extensions? Specifically avoiding corrupting them?
> It seems to be a standard disclaimer from Hosting services that[/color]
"activation[color=blue]
> of FrontPage extensions will limit functionality of the control panel" and
> you risk corrupting the Extensions if you activate some of the options....
> Nebulous I know.
> Thoughts?
> thanks
> Tim
>
>[/color]
My 2Cents, dump front page, there is nothing (in my opinion) that PHP can't
do better than a front page extention. And I say this boldy, as I do not
know what all the front page wigets are.


--
Mike Bradley
http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools

[Tom Thackrey]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?


On 30-Dec-2003, "Tack" <gottabekiddin@ nospam.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> OK, I admit it - I'm a FrontPage user ! :-}
> Now learning PHP and I LIKE it!
> but - anyone had problems or offer advice about integrating PHP with
> FrontPage extensions? Specifically avoiding corrupting them?
> It seems to be a standard disclaimer from Hosting services that
> "activation
> of FrontPage extensions will limit functionality of the control panel" and
> you risk corrupting the Extensions if you activate some of the options....
> Nebulous I know.
> Thoughts?[/color]

I hate FrontPage and avoid it wherever possible. However, two clients
recently have requested it because they want to maintaing their own sites
after I'm done, so I did them in a mix of FP and PHP.

What I ended up doing is creating the static pages in FP. For the
interesting pages, I coded a PHP file that reads two FP created .html files.
One is the site navigation page with a hole for the content. The second is
the client editable content. Both are designed to be templates with markers
where variable data is inserted. The PHP code reads the second file and
substitutes in any variable data, then it merges that data with the first
file. The advantage to me is that client edits are confined to a file where
they can't screw up the look or navigation. I can use FP to maintain the
templates so they use the same includes for static stuff like headers and
footers as the other static pages. And, my display is separated from my
processing. I don't try to edit the PHP pages in FP, it's barely able to
handle HTML.


--
Tom Thackrey

https://www.creative-light.com

tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to jamesbutler@wil lglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)

[CountScubula]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

> What I ended up doing is creating the static pages in FP. For the[color=blue]
> interesting pages, I coded a PHP file that reads two FP created .html[/color]
files.[color=blue]
> One is the site navigation page with a hole for the content. The second is
> the client editable content. Both are designed to be templates with[/color]
markers[color=blue]
> where variable data is inserted. The PHP code reads the second file and
> substitutes in any variable data, then it merges that data with the first
> file. The advantage to me is that client edits are confined to a file[/color]
where[color=blue]
> they can't screw up the look or navigation. I can use FP to maintain the
> templates so they use the same includes for static stuff like headers and
> footers as the other static pages. And, my display is separated from my
> processing. I don't try to edit the PHP pages in FP, it's barely able to
> handle HTML.
>
>
> --
> Tom Thackrey
> www.creative-light.com[/color]


So, what your saying is, you still dont use FP, but your clients do. ;)

Kinda cool, this is a way of job security, after they f** it up a little,
they need you to fix it. *(Sorry, I am just playing around a little here,
havn't seen too much humor here lately)

Tom, I have read some of your posts, you seem very knowledgeable, kudos,
don't you just hate when a client has you design a site so they can
maintiain it? if they know how to maintain it they could build it themselfs.
(now for all you flamers, I know building a site that can be maintained by a
user is doable, but clients dont like to pay for it, and on a second note, I
know I am rambling, and this is off topic.)



--
Mike Bradley
http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools

[Peter Taurins]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

I use FP mainly for it publishing ability and my site runs on a LAMP server.
I have FP extensions enabled and I've never had a problem.
Mind you I don't use any of the FP bots either, I only the the extensions
enabled so I can publish via HTTP.
You do have to be a little careful with subdomains and FPE.
If you unistall the FPE, the passwords are reset on the subdomains.
Also, may (or may not) cause problems with your .htaccess files.
Have also had a problem once where after uploading FP had reset the
permission on a certain directory so one of my forms didn't allow uploads to
a 644, but this was only once (and it was probably my fault as I was dicking
around with the permissions anyway).

Peter,


"Tack" <gottabekiddin@ nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uFrIb.7106 6$aT.45601@news-server.bigpond. net.au...[color=blue]
> OK, I admit it - I'm a FrontPage user ! :-}
> Now learning PHP and I LIKE it!
> but - anyone had problems or offer advice about integrating PHP with
> FrontPage extensions? Specifically avoiding corrupting them?
> It seems to be a standard disclaimer from Hosting services that[/color]
"activation[color=blue]
> of FrontPage extensions will limit functionality of the control panel" and
> you risk corrupting the Extensions if you activate some of the options....
> Nebulous I know.
> Thoughts?
> thanks
> Tim
>
>[/color]

[Tack]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

Thanks for the response peter -
not as bad as some ASP devotees would have me believe perhaps :-)
Tim


"Peter Taurins" <DONOTEMAILMEOH SPAMMEISTERSpet er.taurins@bigp ond.com> wrote
in message news:DfvIb.7133 3$aT.46157@news-server.bigpond. net.au...[color=blue]
> I use FP mainly for it publishing ability and my site runs on a LAMP[/color]
server.[color=blue]
> I have FP extensions enabled and I've never had a problem.
> Mind you I don't use any of the FP bots either, I only the the extensions
> enabled so I can publish via HTTP.
> You do have to be a little careful with subdomains and FPE.
> If you unistall the FPE, the passwords are reset on the subdomains.
> Also, may (or may not) cause problems with your .htaccess files.
> Have also had a problem once where after uploading FP had reset the
> permission on a certain directory so one of my forms didn't allow uploads[/color]
to[color=blue]
> a 644, but this was only once (and it was probably my fault as I was[/color]
dicking[color=blue]
> around with the permissions anyway).
>
> Peter,
>
>
> "Tack" <gottabekiddin@ nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uFrIb.7106 6$aT.45601@news-server.bigpond. net.au...[color=green]
> > OK, I admit it - I'm a FrontPage user ! :-}
> > Now learning PHP and I LIKE it!
> > but - anyone had problems or offer advice about integrating PHP with
> > FrontPage extensions? Specifically avoiding corrupting them?
> > It seems to be a standard disclaimer from Hosting services that[/color]
> "activation[color=green]
> > of FrontPage extensions will limit functionality of the control panel"[/color][/color]
and[color=blue][color=green]
> > you risk corrupting the Extensions if you activate some of the[/color][/color]
options....[color=blue][color=green]
> > Nebulous I know.
> > Thoughts?
> > thanks
> > Tim
> >
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Tom Thackrey]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?


On 30-Dec-2003, "CountScubu la" <me@scantek.hot mail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> So, what your saying is, you still dont use FP, but your clients do. ;)
>
> Kinda cool, this is a way of job security, after they f** it up a little,
> they need you to fix it. *(Sorry, I am just playing around a little here,
> havn't seen too much humor here lately)
>
> Tom, I have read some of your posts, you seem very knowledgeable, kudos,
> don't you just hate when a client has you design a site so they can
> maintiain it? if they know how to maintain it they could build it
> themselfs.
> (now for all you flamers, I know building a site that can be maintained by
> a
> user is doable, but clients dont like to pay for it, and on a second note,
> I
> know I am rambling, and this is off topic.)[/color]

<blush>

What I like to do is give the client an admin page where they can update the
database to change stuff on the site. That way I can edit their input to
ensure they haven't done something that totally screws the site.

As I said, I only code with FP if the client insists and I can't talk them
out of it. Mostly, I have some really nice classes that I use to generate
the pages from PHP.

I had a client recently that insisted on FP, so I built the site with FP so
they could do some of their own updates. I really tried to talk them out of
FP. The person who was doing the updates quit and her replacement thought FP
was too difficult. So, I added admin pages and a database. Now I'm stuck
maintaining the site with FP and they aren't even using it.

--
Tom Thackrey

https://www.creative-light.com

tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to jamesbutler@wil lglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)

[CountScubula]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

> What I like to do is give the client an admin page where they can update
the[color=blue]
> database to change stuff on the site. That way I can edit their input to
> ensure they haven't done something that totally screws the site.
>........
> I had a client recently that insisted on FP, so I built the site with FP[/color]
so[color=blue]
> they could do some of their own updates. I really tried to talk them out[/color]
of[color=blue]
> FP. The person who was doing the updates quit and her replacement thought[/color]
FP[color=blue]
> was too difficult. So, I added admin pages and a database. Now I'm stuck
> maintaining the site with FP and they aren't even using it.
>
> --
> Tom Thackrey
> www.creative-light.com
> tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
> do NOT send email to jamesbutler@wil lglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)[/color]

That is generaly what I do, a simple couple admin pages, I use the same
layout as the site,
with a few nice data changing items.

I hate it when I get the question, "Can you set it up so we can add our own
pages, or change the way it looks, or we can change photos?", My first
response is, I can make anything you want, if you want to log in and check
the office coffemaker, it can happen, unfortunaltey the more features, the
more the project is going to cost.

I tend to let them run wild with what they want, then start pulling it down
to thier budget. All these things add up to why I do not take on projects
anymore, I rather write code to solve a problem, or enhance a site, rather
than site design anymore.

--
Mike Bradley
http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools

[Agelmar]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

CountScubula wrote:
<snip>[color=blue]
> That is generaly what I do, a simple couple admin pages, I use the
> same layout as the site,
> with a few nice data changing items.
>
> I hate it when I get the question, "Can you set it up so we can add
> our own pages, or change the way it looks, or we can change photos?",
> My first response is, I can make anything you want, if you want to
> log in and check the office coffemaker, it can happen, unfortunaltey
> the more features, the more the project is going to cost.
>
> I tend to let them run wild with what they want, then start pulling
> it down to thier budget. All these things add up to why I do not
> take on projects anymore, I rather write code to solve a problem, or
> enhance a site, rather than site design anymore.[/color]

I just got done doing a "self-maintained" project myself (actually, the
second client in a row that's requested such features...). Client was a
glass-blower, owner of a studio. The client wanted to be able to add new
artists, (artists defined as name, picture of artist, picture of work, bio),
and have pieces of that artists' work in an online gallery. Plus, there's a
links page, current events page, a "classes" page (e.g. classes offered at
the studio). All of this needed to be dynamic and user-updatable, from the
links to the classes to the artists to the gallery and more. The backend of
the site has taken me a great deal longer than the front end (front end is
actually very simplistic, just a title graphic and a small navbar, and
that's it. The artist likes it that way, which for me is great.)

To make a long story short, I've been doing more input parsing and error
checking than I've ever done before. The site validates to XHTML 1.1 (which
is very hard to do...), and I did my best to make sure that no matter what
user input gets thrown in, it will stay that way ^-^. But I certainly know
what you mean about the amount of work going into admin sections.
Unfortunately, there were no "nice data changing items" here, though I wish
it were that simple. I had a ton of tables, with foreign key constraints up
the wazoo. The admin section is in the thousands of lines of code area,
which is definitely larger than I thought it would be at the start of the
project. I've had to use the gd functions more than I had ever imagined in
my worst nightmare (thumnail generation, mainly). Oh well :-)

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

I noticed that Message-ID: <bt1p11$2c8fa$1 @ID-30799.news.uni-berlin.de>
from Agelmar contained the following:
[color=blue]
>Unfortunatel y, there were no "nice data changing items" here, though I wish
>it were that simple. I had a ton of tables, with foreign key constraints up
>the wazoo.[/color]

Maybe a little more thought in this area initially may have simplified
matters later?

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[CountScubula]

Re: PHP integration in a Frontpage website?

"Agelmar" <ifetteNOSPAM@c omcast.net> wrote in message
news:bt1p11$2c8 fa$1@ID-30799.news.uni-berlin.de...[color=blue]
>...........
>which is definitely larger than I thought it would be at the start of the
> project. I've had to use the gd functions more than I had ever imagined in
> my worst nightmare (thumnail generation, mainly). Oh well :-)
>[/color]

As a little tip, what I do when it comes to users/clients uploading their
own images, I keep them at thier original size, and store then in a ../out
of web area/photos/ folder

then use a script that sends out the image acroding to size on the url with
a GET

instead of the server generating pics over and over, I have it cache a copy
of the image
and save it to a /_cache/ folder
the next time the script is called it just a readfile() from the cache

I also do an md5() on the original file, just in case it changes, the script
will delete the cached file and rebuild.

here is an example at work:

http://photos.sportpals.com/mbradley

all the images, thumbs, small, normal, large, are all generaged on the
fly/cached. no intervention for me :)

--
Mike Bradley
http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools