Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

[warstar]

Hello all,

I'm in a bit of a problem I'm given a project making an online
shopping system for a professional barbershop. But I'm with a small
problem in witch language to make the system.
My choice would be PHP but I hear from many people that asp.net is
better and more stable.
So I ask you what your experience with asp.net and PHP is.

Thank you already,
Warnar

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

I noticed that Message-ID: <01entvcav6b5h9 luolh2rot5ci3tr mqped@4ax.com>
from warstar contained the following:
[color=blue]
>I'm in a bit of a problem I'm given a project making an online
>shopping system for a professional barbershop.[/color]

I think PHP is definitely a cut above the rest - use it and you will
shave hours off your development time. You could run a pole but a few
people might get stroppy. Be sure to trim your code right down then it
won't take long to comb through to find your mistakes. Pretty soon it
will be tight as a DA.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Nikolai Chuvakhin]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

warstar <warstar@NSA.ml > wrote in message
news:<01entvcav 6b5h9luolh2rot5 ci3trmqped@4ax. com>...[color=blue]
>
> I'm in a bit of a problem I'm given a project making an online
> shopping system for a professional barbershop. But I'm with a small
> problem in witch language to make the system.[/color]

The choice of scripting language is not done in a vacuum; it has
to be logically tied to the choice of operating system, HTTP server,
and database engine. And those choices, in turn, are heavily
influenced by performance requirements and cost considerations.
Since you are not telling us anything about performance requirements
and cost considerations, it's impossible to give you a rational
advice.
[color=blue]
> My choice would be PHP but I hear from many people that asp.net is
> better and more stable.[/color]

Even if this is true (and opinions vary), how is it relevant to you
if your deployment platform is, say, Linux or FreeBSD?
[color=blue]
> So I ask you what your experience with asp.net and PHP is.[/color]

Both (as well as JSP, Perl, or Python) can be used to develop and
deploy high-performance Web applications. ASP is best when you
deploy on costly, but robust Microsoft-only software stack
(Win2K/IIS/SQL2K); PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small
performance penalty for significant budget cuts and thus decide
to deploy on an open-source software stack.

Cheers,
NC

[Markku Nevalainen]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:[color=blue]
>
> ASP is best when you deploy on costly, but robust Microsoft-only
> software stack (Win2K/IIS/SQL2K);[/color]

I have not very often seen word "robust" used with any of the MS
products. So I'll have to ask what does the robustness specifically
mean here?

Does it mean that all these layers on this chain, W2k, IIS, SQL2k
and ASP are significantly more robust than the cheaper, mainly open
source counterparts?
I have thought that at least Apache should be a serious challenger
for IIS, when talking about robustness and security.
[color=blue]
> PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small performance penalty
> for significant budget cuts and thus decide to deploy on an
> open-source software stack.[/color]

Is there some benchmarks available, where one could easiy see the
speed difference between these two choices, and maybe still some
otheralternativ es.

I am *not* a PHP enthusiast myself. I'm just trying to find some
reliable facts for my near future own choices.

Markku Nevalainen

[warstar]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:26:57 +0000, Geoff Berrow
<blthecat@ckdog .co.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I noticed that Message-ID: <01entvcav6b5h9 luolh2rot5ci3tr mqped@4ax.com>
>from warstar contained the following:
>[color=green]
>>I'm in a bit of a problem I'm given a project making an online
>>shopping system for a professional barbershop.[/color]
>
>I think PHP is definitely a cut above the rest - use it and you will
>shave hours off your development time. You could run a pole but a few[/color]

But what about the error cheking and stuff asp.net dus that with like
3 clicks.
[color=blue]
>people might get stroppy. Be sure to trim your code right down then it
>won't take long to comb through to find your mistakes. Pretty soon it[/color]

Where are you basing this on?? the debuger in asp.net helps you debug
never geen a debuger in php
[color=blue]
>will be tight as a DA.[/color]

Thank you

[warstar]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

I agree ais there someone who has seen what is more robust win2k or
win2k3 or debian or redhat etc.
Same on the db part any test?
i was allways thinking apache was better then IIS but maybe i'm wrong?

Thanks for you repley

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:20:15 +0200, Markku Nevalainen
<mne.remthisple ase@iki.fi> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> ASP is best when you deploy on costly, but robust Microsoft-only
>> software stack (Win2K/IIS/SQL2K);[/color]
>
>I have not very often seen word "robust" used with any of the MS
>products. So I'll have to ask what does the robustness specifically
>mean here?
>
>Does it mean that all these layers on this chain, W2k, IIS, SQL2k
>and ASP are significantly more robust than the cheaper, mainly open
>source counterparts?
>I have thought that at least Apache should be a serious challenger
>for IIS, when talking about robustness and security.
>[color=green]
>> PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small performance penalty
>> for significant budget cuts and thus decide to deploy on an
>> open-source software stack.[/color]
>
>Is there some benchmarks available, where one could easiy see the
>speed difference between these two choices, and maybe still some
>otheralternati ves.
>
>I am *not* a PHP enthusiast myself. I'm just trying to find some
>reliable facts for my near future own choices.
>
>Markku Nevalainen[/color]

[Geoff Berrow]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

I noticed that Message-ID: <9ciotvscrg171p i74389lr95kpe71 ivlrj@4ax.com>
from warstar contained the following:
[color=blue]
>Where are you basing this on??[/color]

Very bad puns.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[warstar]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:42:59 +0000, Geoff Berrow
<blthecat@ckdog .co.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I noticed that Message-ID: <9ciotvscrg171p i74389lr95kpe71 ivlrj@4ax.com>
>from warstar contained the following:
>[color=green]
>>Where are you basing this on??[/color]
>
>Very bad puns.[/color]
Puns?? sorry my english isn't perfect

[Bob]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

I've been going through the arguement/thought process over and over,
it never seems to end.

I've done databases/website in both platforms.

Factors in my decision are decidedly less technical than business,
hence my decision to "contribute " to this thread. Technical stuff in
my opinon is splitting heads lengthwise. Both are powerful mature
platforms that are only getting better.

My factors:

1) Cost
2) Availability of tools, including database generation/manipulation
and html / asp/php generation.
3) How does this impact my career, will learning this platform hurt
and enhance my money making potential. After all it's all about
money.

Results:

1) Cost, PHP/MySql hands down. Included in cost is the ability to
find examples/tutorials and CODE! The php/mysql community is bar
none.

2) Edge to Php/mysql in number of tools, however MS has released Web
Matrix this is a real neat professional all in one tool that
integrates html/asp/database quite nicely. And yo, it is free. yup
free. Remember IE/Netscape? However it only supports MS SQL Sever
and Access. That's the hook. Tough to compete with the world's
richest guy.

I my self use, homesite/php/mysql and will soon use navicat. Four
tools vs one. I paid for homesite and will for navicat.

3) This is the hardest, in the corporate world right now, asp / aspx
will pay the most. ASPX will become dirt common. PHP has been
fighting the rebel image and in MY OPINON is making serious headway,
and is becoming accepted. The edge however to ASP/ASPX due to sheer
marketing might of MS.

Pesonally as someone who cut his teeth on the original K&R edition of
"C" I like php. To me aspx gets too wrapped up in framework.

But hey, I am a corporate guy and I do asp and aspx also.

Bottom line, if cash is short go with php. Otherwise go where your
heart leads php or aspx.


But I must say the one thing burns my *ss about MS is the constant
forced upgrading. The new technology never seems to be compatible
with the older technology. You must upgrade or die. I am tired of
having to go back and update my programs because they are no longer
compatible with the new OS.

Make no mistake the profit drive in MS is strong, as it should be, you
will pay. Web Matrix may be free but it locks you in to MSSQL Server,
and that is not free. Plus MS based websites cost more, they have to
pay licensing fees the php/mysql guys don't have to.

Do what you want and feel secure in your decision.

warstar <warstar@NSA.ml > wrote in message news:<3jiotvg3t c807jcrvuoo46ie 2g446teebq@4ax. com>...[color=blue]
> I agree ais there someone who has seen what is more robust win2k or
> win2k3 or debian or redhat etc.
> Same on the db part any test?
> i was allways thinking apache was better then IIS but maybe i'm wrong?
>
> Thanks for you repley
>
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:20:15 +0200, Markku Nevalainen
> <mne.remthisple ase@iki.fi> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> ASP is best when you deploy on costly, but robust Microsoft-only
> >> software stack (Win2K/IIS/SQL2K);[/color]
> >
> >I have not very often seen word "robust" used with any of the MS
> >products. So I'll have to ask what does the robustness specifically
> >mean here?
> >
> >Does it mean that all these layers on this chain, W2k, IIS, SQL2k
> >and ASP are significantly more robust than the cheaper, mainly open
> >source counterparts?
> >I have thought that at least Apache should be a serious challenger
> >for IIS, when talking about robustness and security.
> >[color=darkred]
> >> PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small performance penalty
> >> for significant budget cuts and thus decide to deploy on an
> >> open-source software stack.[/color]
> >
> >Is there some benchmarks available, where one could easiy see the
> >speed difference between these two choices, and maybe still some
> >otheralternati ves.
> >
> >I am *not* a PHP enthusiast myself. I'm just trying to find some
> >reliable facts for my near future own choices.
> >
> >Markku Nevalainen[/color][/color]

[Phil Roberts]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

With total disregard for any kind of safety measures warstar
<warstar@NSA.ml > leapt forth and uttered:
[color=blue]
> Where are you basing this on?? the debuger in asp.net helps you
> debug never geen a debuger in php[/color]

I thought the debugger was a function of the IDE software. And PHP
does have one, in fact it has two that I know of:

http://www.phpedit.com/

http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-studio.php

Personally I like PHP for it's flexibility. Languages such as C# or
Java may be very powerful but they're also very verbose and writing
a simple script is a pain as you're forced to adhere to both the OO
class structures and strong typing.

Hello world in PHP:
<?php echo 'Hello World'; ?>

Hello world in C#:

using System;
public class HelloWorld {
public static void Main() {
System.Console. WriteLine("Hell o World");
}
}

Not much different in Java:

public class Helloworld {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.prin tln("Hello World");
}
}

So if you're looking at web programming then go with PHP as it has
everything you could possibly want and is relatively simple to code
as well. If things such as form validation is a requirement then I
suggest you take a look at WACT (Web Application Component Toolkit)
which does a good job at matching the more useful features of
ASP.NET: http://wact.sourceforge.net/

--
There is no signature.....

[Ian.H]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:32:17 +0100, warstar wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>I think PHP is definitely a cut above the rest - use it and you will
>>shave hours off your development time. You could run a pole but a few[/color]
>
> But what about the error cheking and stuff asp.net dus that with like 3
> clicks.[/color]


LOL!

I love this... a server-side scripting situation and someone suggests
something is "a few clicks away".. hah! the defence rests m'lord ;)

You can see the problem here.. not everything in this world, is supposed
to be "click n drool".

PHP is definitely a better choice IMO.. why stick to some BS closed-source
language that can only (fully) be used on some mickey-mouse "server"? PHP
will run on many OSes (including windoze). Best of all, open-source too =)



Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H [Design & Development]
digiServ Network - Web solutions
www.digiserv.net | irc.digiserv.ne t | forum.digiserv. net
Programming, Web design, development & hosting.

[Jochen Buennagel]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

Markku Nevalainen wrote:
[color=blue]
> Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:[color=green]
>>PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small performance penalty
>>for significant budget cuts and thus decide to deploy on an
>>open-source software stack.[/color]
>
> Is there some benchmarks available, where one could easiy see the
> speed difference between these two choices, and maybe still some
> otheralternativ es.[/color]

I don't have benchmarks availlable, but the system I'm working on is
taking around 2 million hits per day, up to 60/s tops (not counting
images) on Apache w/mod_ssl, running the Zend performance suite.
(Figures are for a single server, but we have 30 of them load balanced,
for a total 60 million per day.)

Hope that helps.

Jochen

[warstar]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

Tahnk all of you i think the point is like bob.
For me it will be ASPX for this project altho i think php has it's
good use.
Thanks again.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:09:56 +0100, warstar <warstar@NSA.ml > wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hello all,
>
>I'm in a bit of a problem I'm given a project making an online
>shopping system for a professional barbershop. But I'm with a small
>problem in witch language to make the system.
>My choice would be PHP but I hear from many people that asp.net is
>better and more stable.
>So I ask you what your experience with asp.net and PHP is.
>
>Thank you already,
>Warnar[/color]

[Nikolai Chuvakhin]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

Markku Nevalainen <mne.remthisple ase@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:<3FDC395F. 28D2@iki.fi>...[color=blue]
> Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:
>[color=green]
> > ASP is best when you deploy on costly, but robust Microsoft-only
> > software stack (Win2K/IIS/SQL2K);[/color]
>
> I have not very often seen word "robust" used with any of the MS
> products.[/color]

Note that I was not referring to a particular product, but, rather,
to the entire server software stack (OS + HTTP server + database
server). Particular products may suck, but their tight integration
helps them work better together.
[color=blue]
> So I'll have to ask what does the robustness specifically
> mean here?[/color]

Just read the latest "Database Clash":

http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3048,a=23115,00.asp

http://www.eweek.com/slideshow/0,3018,sid=0&s=1590&a=23120,00.asp

On Win2K/IIS/SQL2K with 1,000 concurrent users, replacing JSP with
ASP quadrupled throughput and cut response time by a factor of five.
[color=blue]
> Does it mean that all these layers on this chain, W2k, IIS, SQL2k
> and ASP are significantly more robust than the cheaper, mainly open
> source counterparts?[/color]

No. But when deployed together, Microsoft software stack is pretty
hard to beat.
[color=blue]
> I have thought that at least Apache should be a serious challenger
> for IIS, when talking about robustness and security.[/color]

On Win2K, Apache may or may not be a viable alternative to IIS;
in particular, whatever the reason, mod_php causes problems on
some Windows machines, but not others.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > PHP shines when you are willing to pay a small performance penalty
> > for significant budget cuts and thus decide to deploy on an
> > open-source software stack.[/color]
>
> Is there some benchmarks available, where one could easiy see the
> speed difference between these two choices, and maybe still some
> otheralternativ es.[/color]

If you can read some very basic technical French, here you go:

http://www.devparadise.com/technoweb/sys/bench/d55a446.asp

http://www.devparadise.com/technoweb/sys/bench/d55a447.asp

Note, however, that those tests are almoost two years old.
In particular, MySQL developers added some pretty serious
query caching capabilities since then...

Cheers,
NC

[Markku Nevalainen]

Re: Witch language to choose? (PHP or asp.net)

Nikolai Chuvakhin wrote:[color=blue]
>
>
> If you can read some very basic technical French, here you go:
>
> http://www.devparadise.com/technoweb...ch/d55a446.asp[/color]

Thanks! Yet French is out of my scope. So I had to read even this
easy text through a translator:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.devparadise.com%2Ftechnoweb%2Fsys%2Fbench%2Fd55a446.asp&lp=fr_en&tt=url

If I understand the numbers right, Win2K/IIS/SQL2K combination
woul handle 36,45 requests/sec.
And Apache/PHP would do only 21.47 requests/sec with their best
combination.

These are interesting numbers. It would be interesting to see if
there are any other benchmarks where the Open Source camp would
win MS:)
Maybe some more fresh numbers, as you said these numbers would
be nearly 2 years old.

But no doubt, MS products do draw nice diagrams that go well
over the other competitors in this benchmark.

Markku Nevalainen