PHP Programmers

[rik]

What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?

Would you look at someones knowledge of the PHP language and how it
works? What they know about planning large projects? Experience?
What sort of things would YOU be looking at if you were recruiting
someone with advanced PHP skills?

Rick

https://www.e-connected.com

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: PHP Programmers

rik wrote:[color=blue]
> What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
> PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?
>
> Would you look at someones knowledge of the PHP language and how it
> works? What they know about planning large projects? Experience?
> What sort of things would YOU be looking at if you were recruiting
> someone with advanced PHP skills?[/color]

It all depends. In short, a company requires Analyst and domain
experts (say for example banking) to study the system, Programmers to
write code, experienced programmers/testers to analyze/improve the
code.

--
<?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?>
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com

[Hannes Dorbath]

Re: PHP Programmers

Most 13 year old know PHP syntax as it dead simple. I wouldn't focus on
PHP at all. Look for people that have experience with serious database
design, people that know how to design good schemas / DDL, people that
can write high performant 200 line SQL Statements, know what triggers,
rules, transaction isolation levels etc are. Those people tend to be in
business for a while and have experience. You don't want someone with
pure academic background, you want someone that is able to think and has
experience in breaking down the business logic of customers. A good dev
is someone who is able to find efficent solutions for problems, knowing
several programming languages perfectly is just the basic requirment to
implement the solutions.

On 10.08.2005 15:38, rik wrote:[color=blue]
> What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
> PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?
>
> Would you look at someones knowledge of the PHP language and how it
> works? What they know about planning large projects? Experience?
> What sort of things would YOU be looking at if you were recruiting
> someone with advanced PHP skills?[/color]

[Tony]

Re: PHP Programmers

"Hannes Dorbath" <light@theendof thetunnel.de> wrote in message
news:42fa0d32$0 $16524$8fe63b2a @news.disputo.n et...[color=blue]
> Most 13 year old know PHP syntax as it dead simple. I wouldn't focus on
> PHP at all. Look for people that have experience with serious database
> design, people that know how to design good schemas / DDL, people that can
> write high performant 200 line SQL Statements, know what triggers, rules,
> transaction isolation levels etc are. Those people tend to be in business
> for a while and have experience. You don't want someone with pure academic
> background, you want someone that is able to think and has experience in
> breaking down the business logic of customers. A good dev is someone who
> is able to find efficent solutions for problems, knowing several
> programming languages perfectly is just the basic requirment to implement
> the solutions.[/color]

Adding to that - be willing to consider experience rather than education. A
degree doesn't mean you can handle serious coding in the real world, and
lack of a degree doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing. Frankly, a
lot of GOOD programmers never got their degree, because they were working.

Degree or not, real-world experience matters most. And find someone who can
understand your business needs and translate that into working code.

Finally - look for someone who doesn't necessarily KNOW all the answers, but
knows how to research and FIND the answers. That ability can be worth a
tremendous amount if things ever get difficult (which they will)

[NC]

Re: PHP Programmers

rik wrote:[color=blue]
>
> What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
> PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?[/color]

Domain expertise, in my opinion. Say, I need an option pricing
calculator and ask a programmer to write one. A decent programmer
replies, "What's option pricing?"; an excellent programmer asks a
clarifying question, "Do you want Black-Scholes or binomial?"

Obviously, this means that excellence is domain-specific; a
programmer who is excellent in finance applications may not
necessarily be excellent when it comes to, say, healthcare
applications...

Cheers,
NC

[thehuby]

Re: PHP Programmers

Hmmm, thats really good feeback guys.

I suppose like you say, PHP code is pretty simple and its probably
easier to get someone with general programming skills to learn PHP than
try and turn a PHP guru into a domain expert.

Thanks alot.

[Steve]

Re: PHP Programmers

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:19:39 -0700, NC wrote:
[color=blue]
> rik wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
>> PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?[/color]
>
> Domain expertise, in my opinion. Say, I need an option pricing
> calculator and ask a programmer to write one. A decent programmer
> replies, "What's option pricing?"; an excellent programmer asks a
> clarifying question, "Do you want Black-Scholes or binomial?"
>
> Obviously, this means that excellence is domain-specific; a
> programmer who is excellent in finance applications may not
> necessarily be excellent when it comes to, say, healthcare
> applications...
>
> Cheers,
> NC[/color]

B*llocks!

There's an analysis phase to every project. An excellent programmer need
know nothing about the application. They implement the design. No more, no
less. An excellent developer implements it quickly, succinctly, and in a
manner that's easy to modify when the analysis phase shows that it's
failed to understand the customers requirements - which always happens
because the customer doesn't actually know what they want.

Just 'cos Bill and his Visual suite offered the option to drop the
analysis phase and skip straight to a ( unmaintainable,
unstructured, uneverything ) solution doesn't mean he's right! Development
of a project of any size requires many different skillsets, which are
never found in a single person.

Unless it's me, of course (:

Steve

[thehuby]

Re: PHP Programmers

In a small company, people have many more roles and responsibilitie s -
so it is not always an option to have a UML designers, Business
Anaylst, Systems Analyst, db expert, coder.

Customers are not always easy to work with though - I would certainly
agree with that!

[David Boothe]

Re: PHP Programmers

In article <pan.2005.08.11 .10.52.39.98662 9@Aint.Valid>,
ThisOne@Aint.Va lid says...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:19:39 -0700, NC wrote:
>[color=green]
> > rik wrote:[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> What would people consider to be the difference between being a decent
> >> PHP programmer and being an excellent/advanced developer?[/color]
> >
> > Domain expertise, in my opinion. Say, I need an option pricing
> > calculator and ask a programmer to write one. A decent programmer
> > replies, "What's option pricing?"; an excellent programmer asks a
> > clarifying question, "Do you want Black-Scholes or binomial?"
> >
> > Obviously, this means that excellence is domain-specific; a
> > programmer who is excellent in finance applications may not
> > necessarily be excellent when it comes to, say, healthcare
> > applications...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > NC[/color]
>
> B*llocks!
>
> There's an analysis phase to every project. An excellent programmer need
> know nothing about the application. They implement the design. No more, no
> less. An excellent developer implements it quickly, succinctly, and in a
> manner that's easy to modify when the analysis phase shows that it's
> failed to understand the customers requirements - which always happens
> because the customer doesn't actually know what they want.
>
> Just 'cos Bill and his Visual suite offered the option to drop the
> analysis phase and skip straight to a ( unmaintainable,
> unstructured, uneverything ) solution doesn't mean he's right! Development
> of a project of any size requires many different skillsets, which are
> never found in a single person.
>
> Unless it's me, of course (:
>
> Steve
>
>[/color]


I'll NEVER hire someone with that mindset to program ANY project EVER.

[NC]

Re: PHP Programmers

Steve wrote:[color=blue]
>[/color]
NC> Say, I need an option pricing calculator and ask a programmer
NC> to write one. A decent programmer replies, "What's option
NC> pricing?"; an excellent programmer asks a clarifying question,
NC> "Do you want Black-Scholes or binomial?"
NC>
NC> Obviously, this means that excellence is domain-specific; a
NC> programmer who is excellent in finance applications may not
NC> necessarily be excellent when it comes to, say, healthcare
NC> applications...[color=blue]
>
> B*llocks![/color]

You are entitled to your opinion. :)
[color=blue]
> There's an analysis phase to every project. An excellent programmer
> need know nothing about the application. They implement the design.
> No more, no less.[/color]

Exactly. At the design phase it was decided that the application
must include an option pricing calculator; a new programmer
comes on board and gets the assignment of implementing it.
Now, if he is just a capable programmer with no prior knowledge
of financial markets in general and options in particular, he'll
hit the library and will be able to ask intelligent clarifying
questions in a few days' time (so there must be someone in the
organization who can answer those questions, otherwise the
implementation will be screwed up). A programmer with domain
expertise would not require library time, nor would domain-specific
mentoring be necessary. Chance of incorrect implementation
will be reduced drastically.
[color=blue]
> An excellent developer implements it quickly, succinctly, and in a
> manner that's easy to modify when the analysis phase shows that it's
> failed to understand the customers requirements - which always happens
> because the customer doesn't actually know what they want.[/color]

An equally likely possibility is that the designer simply
could not understand what the customer wanted due to lack of
domain expertise... Or the designer could, but the developer
couldn't... Or, better yet, the customer knows what he wants,
but counts on the designer/developer to figure out what it
entails in terms of requirements to software. The prime
example would be HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and
Accountability Act) compliance in the U.S. healthcare industry.

Cheers,
NC