Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

[yensao]

Hi,
I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
help me with this?


Thank you in advance.

Yensao

[Bob Badour]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

Which object-oriented model do you mean?

"yensao" <yensao20032000 @yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:91e71e71.0 312040939.2c90b 9e5@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Hi,
> I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
> Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
> help me with this?
>
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Yensao[/color]

[Anthony W. Youngman]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

In article <91e71e71.03120 40939.2c90b9e5@ posting.google. com>, yensao
<yensao20032000 @yahoo.com.au> writes[color=blue]
>Hi,
>I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
>Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
>help me with this?
>[/color]
So why send it to a group about a post-relational database?[color=blue]
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>Yensao[/color]

Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk
Witches are curious by definition and inquisitive by nature. She moved in. "Let
me through. I'm a nosey person.", she said, employing both elbows.
Maskerade : (c) 1995 Terry Pratchett

[Alfredo Novoa]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

yensao20032000@ yahoo.com.au (yensao) wrote in message news:<91e71e71. 0312040939.2c90 b9e5@posting.go ogle.com>...
[color=blue]
> I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
> Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
> help me with this?[/color]

There is not a thing called The Object-Oriented Model.


Regards
Alfredo

[Mark C. Stock]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

for oracle's take on it, you may want to review the their 'Application
Developer's Guide - Object-Relational Features' manual

-- mcs

"yensao" <yensao20032000 @yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:91e71e71.0 312040939.2c90b 9e5@posting.goo gle.com...
| Hi,
| I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
| Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
| help me with this?
|
|
| Thank you in advance.
|
| Yensao

[Nobody]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relationaldatab ase model and the Object-Oriented model

Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
pointer to physical storage location.

That's all.


yensao wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi,
> I have a hard time to understand difference and similarities between
> Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model. Can somebody
> help me with this?
>
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Yensao[/color]

[Alfredo Novoa]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

Nobody <nobody@nowhere .net> wrote in message news:<xzbBb.650 50$_M.317461@at tbi_s54>...[color=blue]
> Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> pointer to physical storage location.
>
> That's all.
>[/color]

Is this a nonsense competition?


Alfredo

[Corey Brown]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model


"Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
news:e4330f45.0 312090304.6a517 9b3@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Nobody <nobody@nowhere .net> wrote in message[/color]
news:<xzbBb.650 50$_M.317461@at tbi_s54>...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > pointer to physical storage location.
> >
> > That's all.
> >[/color]
>
> Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]

Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
nonsense.
Don't relational databases rely on foreign keys to relate data in one
table row
to another table row? I'm pretty sure they do and I am also pretty sure
that ODBM
systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.

Yes object databases are relatives of "Network Model" databases, but
so what! There are certain types of applications that can benefit from
the
use of object database systems. Personally I use all the tools at my
disposal
when architecting a solution for a particular problem. I don't try to
wedge
relational database solutions into problems that can benefit from
alternate
database technologies.

--Corey[color=blue]
>
>
> Alfredo[/color]

[Bob Badour]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

"Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message
news:8FlBb.6497 $Yt2.86@bignews 3.bellsouth.net ...[color=blue]
>
> "Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
> news:e4330f45.0 312090304.6a517 9b3@posting.goo gle.com...[color=green]
> > Nobody <nobody@nowhere .net> wrote in message[/color]
> news:<xzbBb.650 50$_M.317461@at tbi_s54>...[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > > pointer to physical storage location.
> > >
> > > That's all.
> > >[/color]
> >
> > Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]
>
> Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
> nonsense.
> Don't relational databases rely on foreign keys to relate data in one
> table row
> to another table row? I'm pretty sure they do and I am also pretty[/color]
sure[color=blue]
> that ODBM
> systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]

That's about as useful as observing the difference between cars and
airplanes is to note that airplanes use bulkheads and cars use airbags.

[Nobody]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relationaldatab ase model and the Object-Oriented model

No, it's more like difference between how smart you think you are and
how smart you really are. There's a *big* difference, but you'll never
see it.

Bob Badour wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message
> news:8FlBb.6497 $Yt2.86@bignews 3.bellsouth.net ...
>[color=green]
>>"Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
>>news:e4330f45 .0312090304.6a5 179b3@posting.g oogle.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Nobody <nobody@nowhere .net> wrote in message[/color]
>>
>>news:<xzbBb.6 5050$_M.317461@ attbi_s54>...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>Relationa l databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
>>>>pointer to physical storage location.
>>>>
>>>>That's all.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]
>>
>> Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
>>nonsense.
>> Don't relational databases rely on foreign keys to relate data in one
>>table row
>> to another table row? I'm pretty sure they do and I am also pretty[/color]
>
> sure
>[color=green]
>>that ODBM
>> systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]
>
>
> That's about as useful as observing the difference between cars and
> airplanes is to note that airplanes use bulkheads and cars use airbags.
>
>[/color]

[Alfredo Novoa]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

"Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message news:<8FlBb.649 7
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > > pointer to physical storage location.
> > >
> > > That's all.
> > >[/color]
> >
> > Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]
>
> Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
> nonsense.[/color]

Because it is evident for anybody with a grasp on data management.
[color=blue]
> I am also pretty sure
> that ODBM
> systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]

And I am pretty sure that SQL DBMSes use pointers internally.
[color=blue]
> Yes object databases are relatives of "Network Model" databases, but
> so what![/color]

So they are based in a primitive obsolete and discredited approach.
That's all.
[color=blue]
> There are certain types of applications that can benefit from
> the
> use of object database systems.[/color]

Perhaps in very special circumstances when the flaws of the current
SQL DBMSes are more important than the network model inherent flaws,
and the flaws of the concrete OODBMS implementations .

But you need a good knowledge on the fundamental to decide when to use
one tool or other appropiately, and the kind of nonsenses we can read
here don't help.
[color=blue]
> Personally I use all the tools at my
> disposal
> when architecting a solution for a particular problem.[/color]

Me too, but I try to base my decisions on accurate information.


Regards
Alfredo

[Corey Brown]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model


"Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
news:e4330f45.0 312100321.119aa 1c0@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> "Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message[/color]
news:<8FlBb.649 7[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > > > pointer to physical storage location.
> > > >
> > > > That's all.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]
> >
> > Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
> > nonsense.[/color]
>
> Because it is evident for anybody with a grasp on data management.[/color]

This is exactly the type of answer that I would expect from somebody
like Bob B. Why must you guys always answer direct questions with
inappropriate remarks like this. If you have the knowledge and the
ability to express that knowledge to others, why don't you take a
few minutes out to lay down some cold hard facts, instead of just
telling us to go educate ourselves? Why can't you step up to the
role of teacher and start explaining why you "think" one technology
is better than another?
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > I am also pretty sure
> > that ODBM
> > systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]
>
> And I am pretty sure that SQL DBMSes use pointers internally.[/color]

So your point about network databases being obsolete and discredited
doesn't count here? If using internal pointers is so foul, why doesn't
it
apply to your last statement? I know, I know go educate yourself.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > Yes object databases are relatives of "Network Model" databases,[/color][/color]
but[color=blue][color=green]
> > so what![/color]
>
> So they are based in a primitive obsolete and discredited approach.
> That's all.[/color]

So what! There are many many examples of technologies that have
been eclipsed by better designs. It doesn't mean that the
early designs are not practical or useful anymore.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > There are certain types of applications that can benefit from
> > the
> > use of object database systems.[/color]
>
> Perhaps in very special circumstances when the flaws of the current
> SQL DBMSes are more important than the network model inherent flaws,
> and the flaws of the concrete OODBMS implementations .[/color]

I don't think the circumstances are all that special. And I certainly
hope
that application architects are looking at more than just the flaws
associated
with specific db technologies, instead of looking at the overall picture
of how
and where a particular db technology is going to be used.
[color=blue]
>
> But you need a good knowledge on the fundamental to decide when to use
> one tool or other appropiately, and the kind of nonsenses we can read
> here don't help.[/color]

Please see my comment above. It doesn't do anybody any good if you're
just going to keep telling people how "misinforme d" they are. Step up to
the plate and start transfering your knowledge to the people in the
trenches.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > Personally I use all the tools at my
> > disposal
> > when architecting a solution for a particular problem.[/color]
>
> Me too, but I try to base my decisions on accurate information.[/color]

Ok, but certainly you're not basing your decisions purely on the
theoretical
disadvantages of an ODBMS over an RDBMS. The whole picture of
how the application will be used, how much data will be stored, how it
will be retrieved, the complexity of the data relationships and the
environment that
the application must work in must also be taken into account.

My own automobile is theoretically and practically inferior to a new
hybrid
vehicle, but does that mean I have to stop using my car today just
because
better technology is available?

I firmly believe that both ODBMS and RDBMS technologies have areas in
which
each may excel over the other. Choose the right tool for the job, don't
choose the tool
and then force fit it into a particular job. I worked for Bell
Laboratories for over 18
years, so believe me when I tell you that I have seen more than my fair
share of applications
where the technology was decided on before the requirements were
analyzed, with the
end result being a miserable failure.

Cheers
--Corey
[color=blue]
>
>
> Regards
> Alfredo[/color]

[Corey Brown]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model


"Bob Badour" <bbadour@golden .net> wrote in message
news:uJidnQfQhL mhzUuiRVn-ig@golden.net.. .[color=blue]
> "Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message
> news:8FlBb.6497 $Yt2.86@bignews 3.bellsouth.net ...[color=green]
> >
> > "Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
> > news:e4330f45.0 312090304.6a517 9b3@posting.goo gle.com...[color=darkred]
> > > Nobody <nobody@nowhere .net> wrote in message[/color]
> > news:<xzbBb.650 50$_M.317461@at tbi_s54>...[color=darkred]
> > > > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > > > pointer to physical storage location.
> > > >
> > > > That's all.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is this a nonsense competition?[/color]
> >
> > Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
> > nonsense.
> > Don't relational databases rely on foreign keys to relate data in[/color][/color]
one[color=blue][color=green]
> > table row
> > to another table row? I'm pretty sure they do and I am also pretty[/color]
> sure[color=green]
> > that ODBM
> > systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]
>
> That's about as useful as observing the difference between cars and
> airplanes is to note that airplanes use bulkheads and cars use airbags.[/color]

Let's not confuse safety features with structural features here Bob. I
think
my answer to Alfredo pretty much sums up what an end user (programmer)
encounters when using these two technologies. I think it is useful for a
programmer
or architect to know the limitations of either technology, but I don't
think that
they have to hold a PhD in database theory in order to make educated
decisions
about when to use one technology over the other.

Please, if you can't share you knowledge with others in a civilized
manner
then don't bother to post these kinds of snide remarks here. From
reading your
other posts I take it that you have a high level of understanding of the
theory behind database technology. Unfortunately you tend to stoop to
juvenile behavior when it comes to responding to the vast majority of
the posts in this forum. If I wanted to read that kind of crap, I could
just
as easily tune over to the Linux groups and take part in a flame fest
about
which editor I think is best. Let's leave that for the kiddies ok?

--Corey[color=blue]
>
>[/color]

[Bob Badour]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model

"Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message
news:i6KBb.1154 1$4t2.8346@bign ews4.bellsouth. net...[color=blue]
>
> "Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo@ncs.es > wrote in message
> news:e4330f45.0 312100321.119aa 1c0@posting.goo gle.com...[color=green]
> > "Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message[/color]
> news:<8FlBb.649 7[color=green]
> >[color=darkred]
> > > > > Relational databases use keys. Object databases use some sort of
> > > > > pointer to physical storage location.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's all.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is this a nonsense competition?
> > >
> > > Alfredo, why don't you explain to us why you think this answer is
> > > nonsense.[/color]
> >
> > Because it is evident for anybody with a grasp on data management.[/color]
>
> This is exactly the type of answer that I would expect from somebody
> like Bob B. Why must you guys always answer direct questions with
> inappropriate remarks like this. If you have the knowledge and the
> ability to express that knowledge to others, why don't you take a
> few minutes out to lay down some cold hard facts, instead of just
> telling us to go educate ourselves? Why can't you step up to the
> role of teacher and start explaining why you "think" one technology
> is better than another?[/color]

With all due respect, neither I nor Alfredo owe you or anyone else an
elementary education in the fundamentals of your practice. You, on the other
hand, have a responsibility to educate yourself in those fundamentals.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > I am also pretty sure
> > > that ODBM
> > > systems do use direct pointers to relate objects together.[/color]
> >
> > And I am pretty sure that SQL DBMSes use pointers internally.[/color]
>
> So your point about network databases being obsolete and discredited
> doesn't count here? If using internal pointers is so foul, why doesn't
> it
> apply to your last statement?[/color]

Your remarks betray ignorance of data management fundamentals and a profound
confusion between the logical and the physical. A physical pointer is
perfectly appropriate at the physical level provided no user ever interacts
with it directly at the logical level.


[color=blue]
> I know, I know go educate yourself.[/color]

In your case: Very sound advice.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Yes object databases are relatives of "Network Model" databases,[/color][/color]
> but[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > so what![/color]
> >
> > So they are based in a primitive obsolete and discredited approach.
> > That's all.[/color]
>
> So what! There are many many examples of technologies that have
> been eclipsed by better designs.[/color]

ODBMS is not a new design and has eclipsed nothing. Only an ignoramus such
as yourself could fail to recognize those facts.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > There are certain types of applications that can benefit from
> > > the
> > > use of object database systems.[/color]
> >
> > Perhaps in very special circumstances when the flaws of the current
> > SQL DBMSes are more important than the network model inherent flaws,
> > and the flaws of the concrete OODBMS implementations .[/color]
>
> I don't think the circumstances are all that special.[/color]

Since you base your conclusions on ignorance, I fail to see why anyone
should care what you think.

[color=blue][color=green]
> > But you need a good knowledge on the fundamental to decide when to use
> > one tool or other appropiately, and the kind of nonsenses we can read
> > here don't help.[/color]
>
> Please see my comment above. It doesn't do anybody any good if you're
> just going to keep telling people how "misinforme d" they are. Step up[/color]
to[color=blue]
> the plate and start transfering your knowledge to the people in the
> trenches.[/color]

Fuck you, you lazy, ignorant freeloader. I paid for my education. Go pay for
your own.

[remainder of demanding, ignorant nonsense snipped]

plonk

[Corey Brown]

Re: Need help to understand difference, and contrast between Relational database model and the Object-Oriented model


"Bob Badour" <bbadour@golden .net> wrote in message
news:SJCdndUg_b AeeUqi4p2dnA@go lden.net...[color=blue]
> "Corey Brown" <corey@spectrum software.net> wrote in message
> news:i6KBb.1154 1$4t2.8346@bign ews4.bellsouth. net...[color=green]
> >
> > Please see my comment above. It doesn't do anybody any good if[/color][/color]
you're[color=blue][color=green]
> > just going to keep telling people how "misinforme d" they are. Step[/color][/color]
up[color=blue]
> to[color=green]
> > the plate and start transfering your knowledge to the people in the
> > trenches.[/color]
>
> Fuck you, you lazy, ignorant freeloader. I paid for my education. Go pay[/color]
for[color=blue]
> your own.[/color]

Bob I am very well educated, thank you very little. I think your last
response
speaks volumes about your own educational background and personality
type.

If you can't respond to posts on this forum in a fair and professional
manner, please do us all a favor and don't respond at all.

--Corey
[color=blue]
>
> [remainder of demanding, ignorant nonsense snipped]
>
> plonk
>
>[/color]