News: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

[asj]

BIG news from the web services front. Amazon will use web services to
tie all its vendors together. The company implementing the system will
be using Java/C++ (migrating to all-java later).

Isn't it funny how Microsoft spent so much touting .NET for web
services, and J2EE is actually taking a bigger slice of the pie?

http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3077221

[Tim Tyler]

Re: News: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

In comp.lang.java. advocacy asj <kalim1999@yaho o.com> wrote:

: Isn't it funny how Microsoft spent so much touting .NET for web
: services, and J2EE is actually taking a bigger slice of the pie?

Web services were IBM's baby before Microsoft got involved.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org

[Rolf Enidsson]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

Actually it is very funny.

MS had to make their way into an market where java had 7 years start. As we
all know, on the desktop people have used the best product for years, but on
conservative markets like servers, SUN and others had convinced people that
they NEED a big expensive server to compensate for the lack of performance
in enviromnents like Java. Proving them wrong could take a long time and be
very hard since when you get yourself into the hands of SUN you expect to be
robbed. As a step on the way, until people get to fully understand their own
good, MS made it possible for the rest of the world to make some use of the
old and expensive tech in Java by forcing SUN to abandon their non standard
way of doing things. Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
is 3 times as fast, 10 times easier to build but has a significantly lower
price.

"asj" <kalim1999@yaho o.com> wrote in message
news:38ac73d5.0 309161136.436cf a54@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> BIG news from the web services front. Amazon will use web services to
> tie all its vendors together. The company implementing the system will
> be using Java/C++ (migrating to all-java later).
>
> Isn't it funny how Microsoft spent so much touting .NET for web
> services, and J2EE is actually taking a bigger slice of the pie?
>
> http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3077221[/color]

[Tom Welsh]

Re: News: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

In article <HLBp4x.538@bat h.ac.uk>, Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> writes[color=blue]
>In comp.lang.java. advocacy asj <kalim1999@yaho o.com> wrote:
>
>: Isn't it funny how Microsoft spent so much touting .NET for web
>: services, and J2EE is actually taking a bigger slice of the pie?
>
>Web services were IBM's baby before Microsoft got involved.[/color]

That turns out not to be the case.

Briefly, the XML specification became a W3C recommendation in February
1998, and very shortly after Dave Winer published his interesting
comment that the next big thing would be RPC using XML over HTTP. In
mid-1998 Winer and Don Box were talking to Microsoft about what became
SOAP, and Microsoft even attempted to offer an early version to IETF
(which pretty much ignored it).

IBM got involved at the beginning of 2000, only a few months before
Microsoft announced the .NET strategy and SOAP was submitted to W3C.

Microsoft was emphatically the first major player to become involved
with Web services (in the now accepted sense of RPC- or document-style
communication over SOAP or XML-RPC).
--
Tom Welsh

[Tim Tyler]

Re: News: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

In comp.lang.java. advocacy Tom Welsh <news@tom-welsh.co.uk> wrote:
: In article <HLBp4x.538@bat h.ac.uk>, Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> writes
:>In comp.lang.java. advocacy asj <kalim1999@yaho o.com> wrote:

:>: Isn't it funny how Microsoft spent so much touting .NET for web
:>: services, and J2EE is actually taking a bigger slice of the pie?
:>
:>Web services were IBM's baby before Microsoft got involved.

: That turns out not to be the case.

A fair cop.

http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20010928S0006

....has a more detailed history.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org

[Ixtlan]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++


"Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ msecf.com> skrev i melding
news:#eSBsGMfDH A.3616@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
[color=blue]
> Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
> is 3 times as fast,[/color]

How could .NET, which is designed according to an architecture almost
exactly like J2EE/Java, be able to crank out 3 times better performance? Of
course, this does not take into account the "secret protocolls", design that
performs fast but does not scale, unfair tweaks and other stuff that mostly
goes into a benchmark comparison.
[color=blue]
>10 times easier to build[/color]

You seem to be on crack.
[color=blue]
>but has a significantly lower price.[/color]

Lower than what? Lower than JBOSS ($0.0)?
Lower than many inexpensive but good J2EE implementations ?

Ixtlan

[Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

Re: News: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

Tom Welsh <news@tom-welsh.co.uk> writes:
[color=blue]
> Briefly, the XML specification became a W3C recommendation in February
> 1998, and very shortly after Dave Winer published his interesting
> comment that the next big thing would be RPC using XML over HTTP. In
> mid-1998 Winer and Don Box were talking to Microsoft about what became
> SOAP, and Microsoft even attempted to offer an early version to IETF
> (which pretty much ignored it).[/color]

XML-RPC, which only sends the request and response data is much more
useful for "normal" calls anyway, without SOAP's excessive baggage
which is mostly there to make it harder to write implementations .

[Dino Chiesa [MSFT]]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

please move this to
microsoft.publi c.dotnet.ceasel ess-arguments

-Dino

"Ixtlan" <ixtlan@freeroa ming.net> wrote in message
news:14%9b.2343 6$os2.325624@ne ws2.e.nsc.no...[color=blue]
>
> "Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ msecf.com> skrev i melding
> news:#eSBsGMfDH A.3616@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>[color=green]
> > Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
> > is 3 times as fast,[/color]
>
> How could .NET, which is designed according to an architecture almost
> exactly like J2EE/Java, be able to crank out 3 times better performance?[/color]
Of[color=blue]
> course, this does not take into account the "secret protocolls", design[/color]
that[color=blue]
> performs fast but does not scale, unfair tweaks and other stuff that[/color]
mostly[color=blue]
> goes into a benchmark comparison.
>[color=green]
> >10 times easier to build[/color]
>
> You seem to be on crack.
>[color=green]
> >but has a significantly lower price.[/color]
>
> Lower than what? Lower than JBOSS ($0.0)?
> Lower than many inexpensive but good J2EE implementations ?
>
> Ixtlan
>
>[/color]

[Frank Mulvenny]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

Ixtlan wrote:[color=blue]
> "Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ msecf.com> skrev i melding
> news:#eSBsGMfDH A.3616@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>[color=green]
>> Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
>> is 3 times as fast,[/color]
>
> How could .NET, which is designed according to an architecture almost
> exactly like J2EE/Java, be able to crank out 3 times better
> performance?
> Of course, this does not take into account the "secret
> protocolls", design that performs fast but does not scale, unfair
> tweaks and other stuff that mostly goes into a benchmark comparison.[/color]

That pesky HTTP protocol, it's M$'s proprietary secret weapon! Plus the
other magical secret protocols we arent allowed to talk about <scary woo
noise>. No wonder those fiends get better performance!*

Christ, is "this group" (comp.lang.java .advocacy) turning into another
c.o.l.a. mouth frother's paradise or something?!

*of course, this better performance myth - you shouldnt have given it weight
by accepting it - it's M$ FUD or whatever.

[Rolf Enidsson]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++


"Ixtlan" <ixtlan@freeroa ming.net> wrote in message
news:14%9b.2343 6$os2.325624@ne ws2.e.nsc.no...[color=blue]
>
> "Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ msecf.com> skrev i melding
> news:#eSBsGMfDH A.3616@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>[color=green]
> > Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
> > is 3 times as fast,[/color]
>
> How could .NET, which is designed according to an architecture almost
> exactly like J2EE/Java, be able to crank out 3 times better performance?[/color]
Of[color=blue]
> course, this does not take into account the "secret protocolls", design[/color]
that[color=blue]
> performs fast but does not scale, unfair tweaks and other stuff that[/color]
mostly[color=blue]
> goes into a benchmark comparison.[/color]

HEHE

The usual rant from poor losers when they can't grasp reality. Even SUN are
implementing the "secret" protocolls found in .NET and at last they are
improving on Java to support the featuers found in modern languages like C#.
It is realy fun to see SUN go from 7 years ahead to trying to "catch up".
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >10 times easier to build[/color]
>
> You seem to be on crack.[/color]

I leave the drugs to the people of the OpenSource community. After all, they
have used it from start and that might explain things like GPL.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >but has a significantly lower price.[/color]
>
> Lower than what? Lower than JBOSS ($0.0)?
> Lower than many inexpensive but good J2EE implementations ?[/color]

Ohh, so JBOSS has finally got a licence from SUN for J2EE??? Someone should
tell IBM so that they could trick their customers into another "it is free"
trap, forgetting to tell about their expensive support. In fact, if anyone
want to make money on OpenSource, they have to make sure that the product is
so hard to use that the customer is constantly forced to buy support. If
they ever actually manage to make it good, their income will go away.
[color=blue]
>
> Ixtlan
>
>[/color]

[Roy Culley]

Re: Amazon moves into web services using Java/C++

begin <esiFl2ffDHA.32 48@tk2msftngp13 .phx.gbl>,
"Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ r.e.m.o.v.e.mse cf.com> writes:[color=blue]
>
> "Ixtlan" <ixtlan@freeroa ming.net> wrote in message
> news:14%9b.2343 6$os2.325624@ne ws2.e.nsc.no...[color=green]
>>
>> "Rolf Enidsson" <rolf.enidsson@ msecf.com> skrev i melding
>> news:#eSBsGMfDH A.3616@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Now people can see that exaktly the same thing in .NET
>> > is 3 times as fast,[/color]
>>
>> How could .NET, which is designed according to an architecture almost
>> exactly like J2EE/Java, be able to crank out 3 times better performance?[/color]
> Of[color=green]
>> course, this does not take into account the "secret protocolls", design[/color]
> that[color=green]
>> performs fast but does not scale, unfair tweaks and other stuff that[/color]
> mostly[color=green]
>> goes into a benchmark comparison.[/color]
>
> HEHE[/color]

Grief, just look at the mangled quoting.
[color=blue]
> The usual rant from poor losers when they can't grasp reality. Even SUN are
> implementing the "secret" protocolls found in .NET[/color]

Can't be secret if Sun are implementing them now can they? Do you
wintrolls ever read what you have written before clicking the send
button? No need to read any further.