New to MySQL and I'm confused!

[Jeff]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

"Andrew DeFaria" <Andrew@DeFaria .com> wrote[color=blue]
> But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB? Why then would you be
> linking it to an SQL or other backend?!?[/color]
..
Access has a front end and a back end. They can be used entirely separate
from each other.

Example 1
Access front end
One Access application can easily utilize many different data sources. In
the past, I had a single Access app which used Access, text files, Excel
files, MS SQL and MS Exchange for data sources. I could read and send mail,
plus read and write to text, Excel and SQL.

Example 2
Access back end
I have built ASP pages which use an Access *.mdb file for data storage. It
allows using small portable files behind your web pages, no database server
is required. I think (I haven't used PHP/MySql) this is very similar to PHP
and MySQL. The connection points to a file instead of a server.

These days I rely mostly on ASP and MS SQL. Access does not fit my needs.

But for many situations it works great. And heavy use of Access taught me
all about data manipulation, SQL syntax, ODBC, ADO and Visual Basic.

[Andrew DeFaria]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

mcnewsxp wrote:
[color=blue]
> most developers who have never used access have many misconceptions
> about and kind accept heresay as judgement. truth is you can do tons
> of *real* stuff with it and it is heavily relied on in many
> businesses. it is even somewhat scalable whn you link to a SQL or
> other ODBC backend.[/color]

But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB? Why then would you be
linking it to an SQL or other backend?!? Or are you just saying that it
doesn't scale well (IOW it's more a toy than a tool).
[color=blue]
> i din't know this either until i was in an environment where it is
> used by people who are not programmers but must maintain lots of data.
> they invariably develop themselves into a corner and need a pro to fix
> things, but it is pretty interesting to see what bright people can do
> with access without proper training.[/color]

A small business can also probably do the same with paper and pencil.
[color=blue]
> however, i would not choose it and i would not reckomend it to anyone
> for anything accept maybe a modeling tool for someone who doesn't
> program. once a spec is prototyped i'd use a true DB and dev tools.[/color]


--
A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking.

[Andrew DeFaria]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

Ed Seedhouse wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:39:25 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Actually Access can create dynamic web pages from an Access database[/color]
>>
>> Just goes to show you how much I know about Access (i.e. nothing).
>> However, realistically, if you are going to develop web pages that
>> access databases for real you're gonna have to learn at at least
>> those languages (if not more or different sets).[/color]
>
> Not really. IF you combine Access with Microsoft SQL Server[/color]

If Access is a DB then why are you combining it with a DB?!?
[color=blue]
> you can do all of that with VBA and ADO using Access as a front end
> and SQL Server on the back end.[/color]

Which means you need to learn SQL, VBA (instead of Perl/Php) and HTML
anyway (that is if you are doing anything right and not simply accepting
all the default generations of the web page and/or DB which are ugly and
rarely acceptable in anything worth while).
[color=blue]
> Of course you have to pay out lots and lots of money for all those
> licences, but lots of big companies with
> big databases to manage have don it.[/color]

Yes and you get to pay a lot to boot! Many companies to fall for this
but any company concern about performance/portability and scalability
doesn't.
[color=blue]
> If you want to do it *cheap*, however, Linux or FreeBSD along with
> MySQL or PosgreSQL, Apache as a server and php, perl, python or the
> like, is the way to go and it can compete quite nicely with the big
> boys. Indeed some of the big boys use it. More and more all the time.[/color]

Because they are figuring out that the cost effectiveness, scalability
and additional complexity of MS solution quite simply is not worth it.
[color=blue]
> But let's not call Access a "toy" because, however you might feel
> about Microsoft it is most definitely not a "toy" or anything like a
> toy. Give the devil his due.[/color]

It's a toy that some people take too seriously. It's good for
prototyping and perhaps small jobs.
--
Just what part of "NO" didn't you understand?

[Jeff]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

"Andrew DeFaria" <Andrew@DeFaria .com> wrote[color=blue]
> But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB? Why then would you be
> linking it to an SQL or other backend?!?[/color]
..
Access has a front end and a back end. They can be used entirely separate
from each other.

Example 1
Access front end
One Access application can easily utilize many different data sources. In
the past, I had a single Access app which used Access, text files, Excel
files, MS SQL and MS Exchange for data sources. I could read and send mail,
plus read and write to text, Excel and SQL.

Example 2
Access back end
I have built ASP pages which use an Access *.mdb file for data storage. It
allows using small portable files behind your web pages, no database server
is required. I think (I haven't used PHP/MySql) this is very similar to PHP
and MySQL. The connection points to a file instead of a server.

These days I rely mostly on ASP and MS SQL. Access does not fit my needs.

But for many situations it works great. And heavy use of Access taught me
all about data manipulation, SQL syntax, ODBC, ADO and Visual Basic.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:54:02 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> mcnewsxp wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> most developers who have never used access have many
>> misconceptions about and kind accept heresay as judgement.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB?[/color]

Talk about accepting hearsay as evidence!! "Supposed to be"?
Supposed to be by who?

Not my Microsoft, which as a matter of observable fact provides
ways to bypass "jet" altogether and hook directly into MS SQL Server,
for example.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Why then would you be linking it to an SQL or other backend?!?[/color][/color]

Because the producers of the program actually designed it to be
able to do that perhaps? What do you think ADO is all about,
anyway? Or have you even heard of that?
[color=blue]
> A small business can also probably do the same with paper and
> pencil. however, i would not choose it and i would not reckomend
> it to anyone[/color]

But, since you quite obviously know virtually nothing about it, and
rely on your predjudices instead of mere facts, why do you think
you're advice would be any good to anyone?

Access is, to my mind, actually one of the nicer aspects of their
whole "office" product. That doesn't mean I would use it over other
better or more appropriate tools. But calling it a "toy" is just
silly and shows mere predjudice, not reasoning ability.


Ed

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:54:02 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> mcnewsxp wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> most developers who have never used access have many
>> misconceptions about and kind accept heresay as judgement.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB?[/color]

Talk about accepting hearsay as evidence!! "Supposed to be"?
Supposed to be by who?

Not my Microsoft, which as a matter of observable fact provides
ways to bypass "jet" altogether and hook directly into MS SQL Server,
for example.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Why then would you be linking it to an SQL or other backend?!?[/color][/color]

Because the producers of the program actually designed it to be
able to do that perhaps? What do you think ADO is all about,
anyway? Or have you even heard of that?
[color=blue]
> A small business can also probably do the same with paper and
> pencil. however, i would not choose it and i would not reckomend
> it to anyone[/color]

But, since you quite obviously know virtually nothing about it, and
rely on your predjudices instead of mere facts, why do you think
you're advice would be any good to anyone?

Access is, to my mind, actually one of the nicer aspects of their
whole "office" product. That doesn't mean I would use it over other
better or more appropriate tools. But calling it a "toy" is just
silly and shows mere predjudice, not reasoning ability.


Ed

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:59:22 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:39:25 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually Access can create dynamic web pages from an Access database
>>>
>>> Just goes to show you how much I know about Access (i.e. nothing).
>>> However, realistically, if you are going to develop web pages that
>>> access databases for real you're gonna have to learn at at least
>>> those languages (if not more or different sets).[/color]
>>
>> Not really. IF you combine Access with Microsoft SQL Server[/color]
>
> If Access is a DB then why are you combining it with a DB?!?[/color]

I give up. You are not interested in reasonable discussion, you
are just a name caller, and probably a troll to boot. Goodbye.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:59:22 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:39:25 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually Access can create dynamic web pages from an Access database
>>>
>>> Just goes to show you how much I know about Access (i.e. nothing).
>>> However, realistically, if you are going to develop web pages that
>>> access databases for real you're gonna have to learn at at least
>>> those languages (if not more or different sets).[/color]
>>
>> Not really. IF you combine Access with Microsoft SQL Server[/color]
>
> If Access is a DB then why are you combining it with a DB?!?[/color]

I give up. You are not interested in reasonable discussion, you
are just a name caller, and probably a troll to boot. Goodbye.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:54:02 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> mcnewsxp wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> most developers who have never used access have many
>> misconceptions about and kind accept heresay as judgement.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> But isn't Access supposed to be it's own DB?[/color]

Talk about accepting hearsay as evidence!! "Supposed to be"?
Supposed to be by who?

Not my Microsoft, which as a matter of observable fact provides
ways to bypass "jet" altogether and hook directly into MS SQL Server,
for example.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Why then would you be linking it to an SQL or other backend?!?[/color][/color]

Because the producers of the program actually designed it to be
able to do that perhaps? What do you think ADO is all about,
anyway? Or have you even heard of that?
[color=blue]
> A small business can also probably do the same with paper and
> pencil. however, i would not choose it and i would not reckomend
> it to anyone[/color]

But, since you quite obviously know virtually nothing about it, and
rely on your predjudices instead of mere facts, why do you think
you're advice would be any good to anyone?

Access is, to my mind, actually one of the nicer aspects of their
whole "office" product. That doesn't mean I would use it over other
better or more appropriate tools. But calling it a "toy" is just
silly and shows mere predjudice, not reasoning ability.


Ed

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:59:22 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:39:25 -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Ed Seedhouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually Access can create dynamic web pages from an Access database
>>>
>>> Just goes to show you how much I know about Access (i.e. nothing).
>>> However, realistically, if you are going to develop web pages that
>>> access databases for real you're gonna have to learn at at least
>>> those languages (if not more or different sets).[/color]
>>
>> Not really. IF you combine Access with Microsoft SQL Server[/color]
>
> If Access is a DB then why are you combining it with a DB?!?[/color]

I give up. You are not interested in reasonable discussion, you
are just a name caller, and probably a troll to boot. Goodbye.

[w_curtis]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

Thanks all. Since we don't have too many records (maybe 500 a year), Access
has served us really well, even if it isn't a "real" database. I'm trying
out some GUI's for MySQL, and reading some more tutorials to see if I can
take it slow and get the hang of it.

Thanks again.
"w_curtis" <anon@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:u41Pb.2002 7$zj7.19822@new sread1.news.pas .earthlink.net. ..[color=blue]
> I'm an Access user, and I'm trying to learn MySQL and then PHP so I can[/color]
make[color=blue]
> some web databases. But it just isn't clicking.
>
> I've followed some tutorials, and picked up a book, but just getting to
> square one has been a pain. I can follow the tutorials and get to the[/color]
point[color=blue]
> where I can make tables and stuff, but I don't know how I got there, or[/color]
what[color=blue]
> to do if something changes that makes it different than the tutorial.
>
> MySQL doesn't seem to be like any other program I've used. Usually, I[/color]
can[color=blue]
> install a program, and then there's a little icon on my desktop, I click[/color]
on[color=blue]
> it, and there is the program.
>
> But with MySQL, I install it, and it starts running as a service, but I
> still can't see it. So I have to use a command prompt to talk to it. But
> the commands to do this are anything but intuitive, and the tutorials I've
> seen (from DevShed, the official site, and a few others) gloss over this
> part like I'm already supposed to know how it works. Sometimes, I can get
> it to work, and sometimes I can't. Users, passwords, ports, And this is
> on my own computer. I don't even want to think of what this is like on a
> network, or the internet. Or trying to get a program to talk to it
> automatically.
>
> Is there a good primer on the mechanics of how I'm supposed to actually
> interface with this program? Can I skip the whole command-line thing and
> just get a GUI? I imagine I'll still need to know about connecting and
> stuff with a GUI.
>
>[/color]

[w_curtis]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

Thanks all. Since we don't have too many records (maybe 500 a year), Access
has served us really well, even if it isn't a "real" database. I'm trying
out some GUI's for MySQL, and reading some more tutorials to see if I can
take it slow and get the hang of it.

Thanks again.
"w_curtis" <anon@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:u41Pb.2002 7$zj7.19822@new sread1.news.pas .earthlink.net. ..[color=blue]
> I'm an Access user, and I'm trying to learn MySQL and then PHP so I can[/color]
make[color=blue]
> some web databases. But it just isn't clicking.
>
> I've followed some tutorials, and picked up a book, but just getting to
> square one has been a pain. I can follow the tutorials and get to the[/color]
point[color=blue]
> where I can make tables and stuff, but I don't know how I got there, or[/color]
what[color=blue]
> to do if something changes that makes it different than the tutorial.
>
> MySQL doesn't seem to be like any other program I've used. Usually, I[/color]
can[color=blue]
> install a program, and then there's a little icon on my desktop, I click[/color]
on[color=blue]
> it, and there is the program.
>
> But with MySQL, I install it, and it starts running as a service, but I
> still can't see it. So I have to use a command prompt to talk to it. But
> the commands to do this are anything but intuitive, and the tutorials I've
> seen (from DevShed, the official site, and a few others) gloss over this
> part like I'm already supposed to know how it works. Sometimes, I can get
> it to work, and sometimes I can't. Users, passwords, ports, And this is
> on my own computer. I don't even want to think of what this is like on a
> network, or the internet. Or trying to get a program to talk to it
> automatically.
>
> Is there a good primer on the mechanics of how I'm supposed to actually
> interface with this program? Can I skip the whole command-line thing and
> just get a GUI? I imagine I'll still need to know about connecting and
> stuff with a GUI.
>
>[/color]

[w_curtis]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

Thanks all. Since we don't have too many records (maybe 500 a year), Access
has served us really well, even if it isn't a "real" database. I'm trying
out some GUI's for MySQL, and reading some more tutorials to see if I can
take it slow and get the hang of it.

Thanks again.
"w_curtis" <anon@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:u41Pb.2002 7$zj7.19822@new sread1.news.pas .earthlink.net. ..[color=blue]
> I'm an Access user, and I'm trying to learn MySQL and then PHP so I can[/color]
make[color=blue]
> some web databases. But it just isn't clicking.
>
> I've followed some tutorials, and picked up a book, but just getting to
> square one has been a pain. I can follow the tutorials and get to the[/color]
point[color=blue]
> where I can make tables and stuff, but I don't know how I got there, or[/color]
what[color=blue]
> to do if something changes that makes it different than the tutorial.
>
> MySQL doesn't seem to be like any other program I've used. Usually, I[/color]
can[color=blue]
> install a program, and then there's a little icon on my desktop, I click[/color]
on[color=blue]
> it, and there is the program.
>
> But with MySQL, I install it, and it starts running as a service, but I
> still can't see it. So I have to use a command prompt to talk to it. But
> the commands to do this are anything but intuitive, and the tutorials I've
> seen (from DevShed, the official site, and a few others) gloss over this
> part like I'm already supposed to know how it works. Sometimes, I can get
> it to work, and sometimes I can't. Users, passwords, ports, And this is
> on my own computer. I don't even want to think of what this is like on a
> network, or the internet. Or trying to get a program to talk to it
> automatically.
>
> Is there a good primer on the mechanics of how I'm supposed to actually
> interface with this program? Can I skip the whole command-line thing and
> just get a GUI? I imagine I'll still need to know about connecting and
> stuff with a GUI.
>
>[/color]

[Kvag]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

> Is there a good primer on the mechanics of how I'm supposed to actually[color=blue]
> interface with this program? Can I skip the whole command-line thing and
> just get a GUI? I imagine I'll still need to know about connecting and
> stuff with a GUI.[/color]

You should try MySQLCC (MySQL Control Center) which is GUI
administration client for the MySQL database server. Download it from
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysqlcc.html . Since you have the
experience from Access, you will be able to do a kick-start. Actually
it resambles more to MS SQL Server's GUI, a combination of "Enterprise
Manager" and "SQL Query Analyser". It is still in developement, the
latest version must be 0.9.something. It is really nice!
[color=blue]
>I'm an Access user, and I'm trying to learn MySQL and then PHP so I[/color]
can make[color=blue]
>some web databases. But it just isn't clicking.[/color]

The web-base thing is another story. You have to use PHP to access the
MySQL database and tables. See the PHP manual :"Function
Reference"->"LXIII. MySQL Functions" to check out the PHP commands, to
make things work the way you want it. Download the manual from

http://www.php.net

[Kvag]

Re: New to MySQL and I'm confused!

> Is there a good primer on the mechanics of how I'm supposed to actually[color=blue]
> interface with this program? Can I skip the whole command-line thing and
> just get a GUI? I imagine I'll still need to know about connecting and
> stuff with a GUI.[/color]

You should try MySQLCC (MySQL Control Center) which is GUI
administration client for the MySQL database server. Download it from
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysqlcc.html . Since you have the
experience from Access, you will be able to do a kick-start. Actually
it resambles more to MS SQL Server's GUI, a combination of "Enterprise
Manager" and "SQL Query Analyser". It is still in developement, the
latest version must be 0.9.something. It is really nice!
[color=blue]
>I'm an Access user, and I'm trying to learn MySQL and then PHP so I[/color]
can make[color=blue]
>some web databases. But it just isn't clicking.[/color]

The web-base thing is another story. You have to use PHP to access the
MySQL database and tables. See the PHP manual :"Function
Reference"->"LXIII. MySQL Functions" to check out the PHP commands, to
make things work the way you want it. Download the manual from

http://www.php.net