How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
called for?
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Re: When to minify?
Martin Rinehart schreef:Me? When it starts resembling JQuery or prototypejs.How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
Seriously, how can anybody answer such a general question?
Personally, I roll all my JavaScript myself (that way I understand what
I am doing) and never found myself in a situation where I needed to
minimize the code.
Are you having any specific problems with your current JavaScript?
If so, what kind of problems? Maintainance? Performance? Crossbrowser
compatibility?
Please elaborate a little.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 14, 5:32 pm, Martin Rinehart <MartinRineh... @gmail.comwrote :I always try to serve them minified, BUT, do not forget to keep theHow much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
non-minified sources in a safe place: usually a "sources" folder (a
"deploy" folder holds the minified versions).
..CSS and .html files can be "minified" too...
A 1000 lines .js with soft-tabs has several kilobytes of %20's...
Also, whenever/if the UA supports it (Accept-Encoding: gzip) serve it
gzipped as well.
--
Jorge.
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Re: When to minify?
Martin Rinehart wrote:There isn't enough "javascript " in the world to make minifying worthwhile.How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
Literally.
PointedEars
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee
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Re: When to minify?
Jorge wrote:Since no human beings (possible savants aside) can decipher minified code inOn Nov 14, 5:32 pm, Martin Rinehart <MartinRineh... @gmail.comwrote :>>How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
>called for?
I always try to serve them minified, BUT, do not forget to keep the
non-minified sources in a safe place: usually a "sources" folder (a
"deploy" folder holds the minified versions).
a reasonable amount of time so as to compare if the code they use is
equivalent to the code that is in the `deploy' "folder", what should it be
good for? That's the core problem with minifying: you test code but you use
completely different code; the tests, as thorough as they may have been, are
ultimately futile. Especially as most people don't even know how the
minifier works that they are using.
My recommendation: When serving, strip the documentation comments if you
must (and provide a version that includes them also), but do not minify.
To what end? Better support RFC 1149?.CSS and .html files can be "minified" too...
So what? Assuming "several" means 2 (KiB), that's about 0.293 secondsA 1000 lines .js with soft-tabs has several kilobytes of %20's...
download time on a 56k modem in the best case (56 kBit/s), about 0.341
seconds in the worst case that I have seen yet (48 kBit/s). Literally
in the blink of an eye already, and broadband Internet connections,
which are more than 26 times faster than that, tend to be more common nowadays.
That's the ticket instead.Also, whenever/if the UA supports it (Accept-Encoding: gzip) serve it
gzipped as well.
PointedEars
--
Use any version of Microsoft Frontpage to create your site.
(This won't prevent people from viewing your source, but no one
will want to steal it.)
-- from <http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm>
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Re: When to minify?
Martin Rinehart meinte:Never? I use JSMin to strip comments and trailing spaces occasionally.How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
Serving one larger file instead of several small ones, and delivering it
gzipped will yield *much* better results, than all this minifiying fuss.
Gregor
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Re: When to minify?
Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregork ofler.atwrites:
This. And also: nothing will reduce the size of a js file better thanMartin Rinehart meinte:>>How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
>called for?
Never? I use JSMin to strip comments and trailing spaces
occasionally. Serving one larger file instead of several small ones,
and delivering it gzipped will yield *much* better results, than all
this minifiying fuss.
gzip. See content-encoding.
--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 14, 10:18 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
wrote:I have had a problem of this kind just once, when using the>
Since no human beings (possible savants aside) can decipher minified code in
a reasonable amount of time so as to compare if the code they use is
equivalent to the code that is in the `deploy' "folder", what should it be
good for? That's the core problem with minifying: you test code but you use
completely different code; the tests, as thorough as they may have been, are
ultimately futile. Especially as most people don't even know how the
minifier works that they are using.
>
"agressive" setting (which I have never used again). But not with the
"conservati ve" setting. The "minimal" setting seems to just strip out
comments, empty lines and trailing spaces, if that makes you feel
better.
JSMin is the "final touch" that every (big) .js file deserves, IMO.
2 spaces per tab stop per line account for much more than that.>A 1000 lines .js with soft-tabs has several kilobytes of %20's...
So what? Assuming "several" means 2 (KiB)
....and there are millions of mobile users out there.that's about 0.293 seconds
download time on a 56k modem in the best case (56 kBit/s), about 0.341
seconds in the worst case that I have seen yet (48 kBit/s).
What's in your opinion the number of kiloBytes of junk that is ok toLiterally
in the blink of an eye already, and broadband Internet connections,
which are more than 26 times faster than that, tend to be more common nowadays.
>
send again and again and again ?
--
Jorge.
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 15, 12:02 am, Joost Diepenmaat <jo...@zeekat.n lwrote:Yes: minify + gzip.>
This. And also: nothing will reduce the size of a js file better than
gzip.
--
Jorge.
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Re: When to minify?
"Martin Rinehart" <MartinRinehart @gmail.comwrote in message
news:1063c6af-c5af-4c4e-9f99-8f6575ef6369@b3 8g2000prf.googl egroups.com...What everybody else said plus:How much javascript would you have when you decide that minifying is
called for?
Why minimize a Javascript file to save the odd K or two then the same page
probably has a dozen images that could be better compressed (at almost zero
loss of quality) saving hundreds of K.
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Re: When to minify?
rf wrote:Because most browsers block the loading of additional assets until theWhy minimize a Javascript file to save the odd K or two then the same page
probably has a dozen images that could be better compressed (at almost zero
loss of quality) saving hundreds of K?
JavaScript file has been completely loaded, compiled, and executing. The largest
component is the loading time, and minification and gzipping are very effective
optimizations.
I highly recommend that you get Steve Sourders's book on performance.
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Re: When to minify?
Jorge wrote:Even if its twice that amount it is still negligible as compared to the restThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:>>So what? Assuming "several" means 2 (KiB)>>A 1000 lines .js with soft-tabs has several kilobytes of %20's...
2 spaces per tab stop per line account for much more than that.
of the file.
You don't serve large script files to mobile devices.>>that's about 0.293 seconds download time on a 56k modem in the best
>case (56 kBit/s), about 0.341 seconds in the worst case that I have
>seen yet (48 kBit/s).
...and there are millions of mobile users out there.
Anyhow, for 2 KiB that is
13.0 kbit/s on GSM, ca. 1.260 s
14.4 kbit/s on CSD, ca. 1.138 s
115.2 kbit/s on HSCSD, ca. 0.142 s
171.2 kbit/s on GPRS, ca. 0.096 s
384.0 kbit/s on EDGE, ca. 0.043 s
384.0 kbit/s to 7.2 Mbit/s on UMTS, ca. 0.043 down to 0.002 s
And, as others have already noted, if you are worried about the script size
you really should be worried about the document and image file size first.
Wrong question. Whitespace is _not_ junk.>>Literally in the blink of an eye already, and broadband Internet
>connections, which are more than 26 times faster than that, tend to be
>more common nowadays.
What's in your opinion the number of kiloBytes of junk that is ok to send
again and again and again ?
PointedEars
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 15, 7:57 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
wrote:You don't know what you're talking about: The last iPhone webApp that>
You don't serve large script files to mobile devices.
>
I have written (not counting iui.js): 2256 lines of JavaScript, 64592
characters -43286 characters minified (conservative setting) ->
11561 bytes gzipped.
Minification alone shrinked it by 20k+.
Mobile users don't get that speeds, those are (in theory) maximumAnyhow, for 2 KiB that is
>
13.0 kbit/s on GSM, (...) etc etc
speeds, nothing to do with what you really get.
--
Jorge.
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 15, 7:57 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
wrote:Yeah, but not in this thread. This one is about minifying JS.>
And, as others have already noted, if you are worried about the script size
you really should be worried about the document and image file size first..
>
--
Jorge.
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Re: When to minify?
On Nov 15, 7:57 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
wrote:Huh ?>>What's in your opinion the number of kiloBytes of junk that is ok to send
again and again and again ?
Wrong question. Whitespace is _not_ junk.
>
--
Jorge.
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