Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

[lorlarz]

Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown JavaScript
applications:
real.comp.lang. js.apps (a new google group)

Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their code
shared and explained. The language used for browser programs should
be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other cgi may of
course be involved.

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 21, 8:43 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:

Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got
>
Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown JavaScript
applications:
real.comp.lang. js.apps  (a new google group)
>
Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their code
shared and explained.  The language used for browser programs should
be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other cgi may of
course be involved.

I am just learning how to do this "google groups" thing.
It looks like I need you to provide you with the web
address for posting to this open group:

http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

Those who know about google groups may email me and
tell me more.

[Mike Duffy]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

lorlarz <lorlarz@gmail. comwrote in news:a2b53289-abca-4b0c-9f91-
fbc1586d3b7f@k3 0g2000hse.googl egroups.com:

On Aug 21, 8:43 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:

>Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got
>>
>Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown JavaScript
>applications :
>real.comp.lang .js.apps  (a new google group)
>>
>Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
>A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
>JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their code
>shared and explained.  The language used for browser programs should
>be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other cgi may of
>course be involved.

I am curious about what constitutes a "large" or even "larger full-blown"
application. My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

So, out of idle curiosity, I went to the web site you mentioned, but I did
not see any javascript applications of any size. I even tried the link in
your "motivation " message that is supposed to showcase your work:

xttp://nottoolate.info

This simply re-directed me to:

xttp://mynichecomputin g.com/digitallearning/

Still no javascript. (Note: I have changed http to xttp in my post to
prevent anyone else from accidentally wasting his time.)

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:

lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote in news:a2b53289-abca-4b0c-9f91-
fbc1586d3...@k3 0g2000hse.googl egroups.com:
>

On Aug 21, 8:43 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:

Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

>

Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown JavaScript
applications:
real.comp.lang. js.apps  (a new google group)

>

Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their code
shared and explained.  The language used for browser programs should
be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other cgi may of
course be involved.

>
I am curious about what constitutes a "large" or even "larger full-blown"
application. My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.
>
So, out of idle curiosity, I went to the web site you mentioned, but I did
not see any javascript applications of any size. I even tried the link in
your "motivation " message that is supposed to showcase your work:
>
xttp://nottoolate.info
>
This simply re-directed me to:
>
xttp://mynichecomputin g.com/digitallearning/
>
Still no javascript. (Note: I have changed http to xttp in my post to
prevent anyone else from accidentally wasting his time.)

Did you expect the programs to be right on the
home page? What a jerK!! Look for links.

If you explore the links from that home page,
http://mynichecomputing.com/digitallearning/ ,
you will find many JS programs -- browser programs
that interact with the user through several steps and
made some product they want. That alone, suffices
as a program: Several steps interacting with a user
and creating a product which the program user wants.

I do not mean to over emphasize "large" at all, in
fact, I want to emphasize the words "program" aka
"applicatio n' (in JavaScript) . If you have
anything like that which you would like to share
I invite you to share it here:

http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:
[snip]

My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

The above understanding of JavaScript is precisely what I know is
wrong,
and several (including myself) have proven it wrong. There is the
capability for full programs (as you, me or anyone would understand
the word) IN JAVASCRIPT. The fact that there are those still who do
not even realize this is sad and is why the new google group has
been started.

http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 22, 9:18 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:
[snip]
>

My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

>
The above understanding of JavaScript is precisely what I know is
wrong,
and several (including myself) have proven it wrong.  There is the
capability for full programs (as you, me or anyone would understand
the word) IN JAVASCRIPT.  The fact that there are those still who do
not even realize this is sad and is why the new google group has
been started.http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

Let me describe one of the more elaborate and fun (and useful and
interactive and multifaceted) JavaScript programs I have seen,
just to give you a sense of how few limitations there really are on
JavaScript for program making.

I might as well say who did the program and where it can be found,
right
up front. The maze I will describe was built with functions via
programs
from the book, The Art and Science of JavaScript by Adams, Edwards,
Heilmann,
Mahemhoff, Pehlivanian, Webb, Willison (Sitepoint , 2008) Anyhow, this
PURELY
JavaScript program allows a user to walk through a very large maze,
and
at each step the user can look right and left (and sometimes straight
ahead)
and see a different jpeg or gif (or embed). Thus, the program can be
used,
for example, an art display vehicle OR a walk through history, etc.,
etc., etc.,
(The graphics are amazingly satisfactory (sky, clouds, grass, walls).)

Now that is not only many steps and much interactivity, producing the
"product" a user wants BUT the uses for it are amazing and highly
variable.

The story (and this is a true story) is not even over yet: The
author
of this program (and it is NOT me) also includes a maze builder to
automatically make different mazes. I have done nothing to improve
this
program, except make a small builder to automatically write the code
for
placement of the gifs, jpegs, or embeds on the maze walls plus I made
a mini-maze view, so the user can see the whole make at once from
above
and see where they are. The author of the program has given me
express
permission to share this program with teacher for fun learning
activities.

This is one of the most cool (and very universally useful) javascript
programs I have seen.

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:
[snip]

My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

Just out of curiosity, how many in this newsgroup actually
have this sort of limited understanding of JavaScript?

Let's get beyond this. Beyond the basic language and problems
of its use and get to somethings interesting:

http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

Some must be sick of the small problems with snippets
and explaining just the basics of the language.

[Lasse Reichstein Nielsen]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

lorlarz <lorlarz@gmail. comwrites:

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:
[snip]
>

>My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to
>create several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
>sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but given
>the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back to the
>same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

>
Just out of curiosity, how many in this newsgroup actually
have this sort of limited understanding of JavaScript?

Can't speak for others, but for me ... I agree with neither of you.

Javascript in itself is just a language.

It can be used in many places, currently including, but not limited
to, web-pages, PDF files, flash applications, web-servers, .net
applications in general, and the Windows scripting host.

The traditional usage in many of these cases are small scripts that
enhance the experience without being essential, but that is just
the norm, not the limit. Even just in web-pages, Javascript usage
spans from simple form-validations to, e.g., GMail and Google Docs.

The language does not define the use. The target platform of the
program does, to some extend, but with a wide span (e.g., I haven't
seen vector graphics in a PDF file yet).

For web-pages there are generally two approaches:

1. Improving the experience on a page, but with gracefull degredation
if scripting is allowed. This is the approach of high-volume sites
who wants all the customers they can get, even those with javascript
disabled. The page is not the end goal, but a means to an end (e.g.,
finding and buying a product).

2. Browser-applications, where the page depends on scripting to meet
its intended use. The page is not just presenting information, but
actively manipulating it and producing content.

Both are valid.

Let's get beyond this. Beyond the basic language and problems
of its use and get to somethings interesting:
http://groups.google.com/group/realcomplangjsapps

The title sounds somewhat pretentious. I'd guess, if all I know was
the name, that it's a vanity group with few (or just one) recurring
user, and not likely to be interesting in general.

Starting up a group is not easy unless it covers an existing need,
manages to become visible to the people with that need, and does
so in short enough time that it reaches critical mass. Too few users
at a time just means that those users go away, and new users sees
an even less populated group.

I don't generally use Google Groups, either, preferring to stay with
Usenet. Have they created a NNTP interface to their non-Usenet groups
yet?

Some must be sick of the small problems with snippets
and explaining just the basics of the language.

The problems in writing programs in a language can be separated into
the problems inherent to the problem domain (the inherent complexity
of the problem) and the problems deriving from the choice of platform,
language, or other tools (accidental complexity).

The problems that are Javascript related are therefore, to a large
extend, the accidental problems caused by language restrictions or
problems with the target platform (typically web-browsers). Those
problems can, generally, be explained by small snippets of code
that solve that particular problem.
There is a reason it's what we see :)

Also, many, many users of Javascript on web-pages are not programmers.
They rarely try big programs (and good for them, since it's almost
inevitable that they would fail), so again, their questions are
solved by small snippets of code.

More general problems are typically about algorithms or
data-structures, and would probably fit better in a more general group
than a language-specific one.

Also, at a certain level of complexity, it might be simpler to use
a framework to generate the pages and scripting, instead of writing
it manually, e.g., GWT. At that point, one will go to the framework's
community with questions instead of here.

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'

[Ivan Marsh]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:11:32 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen wrote:

lorlarz <lorlarz@gmail. comwrites:
>

>On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote: [snip]
>>

>>My understanding of javascript is that it is used more to create
>>several small programs that appear here and there on a website. For
>>sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but
>>given the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except
>>back to the same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

>>
>Just out of curiosity, how many in this newsgroup actually have this
>sort of limited understanding of JavaScript?

>
Can't speak for others, but for me ... I agree with neither of you.

Yeah... and the "I'm going to be a dick to anyone that disagrees with me
while inviting people to use my site" thing isn't a very good sales pitch.

--
I told you this was going to happen.

[Doug Gunnoe]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 22, 11:11 am, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen <l...@hotpop.co mwrote:

Also, many, many users of Javascript on web-pages are not programmers.
They rarely try big programs (and good for them, since it's almost
inevitable that they would fail), so again, their questions are
solved by small snippets of code.

Are you talking to me?

Seriously, this is true (although personally I have done some larger
stuff). And in fact, I believe JavaScript was created so that non-
professionals could get some benefit from it.

And this new guy is funny. The combination of not being very good at
English and not being the JavaScript expert he thinks he is has made
for much lolz the last few days.

[Peter Michaux]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 22, 9:11 am, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen <l...@hotpop.co mwrote:

 DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>

That is pretty neat. This one is even better:

http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rotatingStar.html

Peter

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 22, 2:33 pm, Peter Michaux <petermich...@g mail.comwrote:

On Aug 22, 9:11 am, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen <l...@hotpop.co mwrote:
>

 DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>

>
That is pretty neat. This one is even better:
>

http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rotatingStar.html

>
Peter

Indeed Lasse Reichstein Nielsen has some neat stuff, that
could be shared in the new group. The star does
not seem to be cross-platform, though.

[Mike Duffy]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

lorlarz <lorlarz@gmail. comwrote in
news:cd70e4a2-38b7-4d44-9f5b-965bc063791e@26 g2000hsk.google groups.com:

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:

>lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote in news:a2b53289-abca-4b0c-9f91-
>fbc1586d3...@k 30g2000hse.goog legroups.com:
>>

On Aug 21, 8:43 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:
>Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

>>

>Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown
>JavaScript applications:
>real.comp.lang .js.apps  (a new google group)

>>

>Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
>A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
>JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their
>code shared and explained.  The language used for browser programs
>should be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other
>cgi may of course be involved.

>>
>I am curious about what constitutes a "large" or even "larger
>full-blown" application. My understanding of javascript is that it is
>used more to create several small programs that appear here and there
>on a website. Fo

r

>sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but
>give

n

>the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back
>to th

e

>same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.
>>
>So, out of idle curiosity, I went to the web site you mentioned, but
>I di

d

>not see any javascript applications of any size. I even tried the
>link in your "motivation " message that is supposed to showcase your
>work:
>>
>xttp://nottoolate.info
>>
>This simply re-directed me to:
>>
>xttp://mynichecomputin g.com/digitallearning/
>>
>Still no javascript. (Note: I have changed http to xttp in my post to
>prevent anyone else from accidentally wasting his time.)

>
Did you expect the programs to be right on the
home page? What a jerK!! Look for links.

I did look for links but alas, could not find any.

Why not post a few showing a few of your glorious megalithic application?

[lorlarz]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

On Aug 22, 4:24 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:

lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote innews:cd70e4a2-38b7-4d44-9f5b-965bc063791e@26 g2000hsk.google groups.com:
>
>
>
>
>

On Aug 21, 10:07 pm, Mike Duffy <resp...@newsgr oup.onlywrote:

lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote in news:a2b53289-abca-4b0c-9f91-
fbc1586d3...@k3 0g2000hse.googl egroups.com:

>

On Aug 21, 8:43 am, lorlarz <lorl...@gmail. comwrote:
Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

>

Here is a place to share your large or larger full-blown
JavaScript applications:
real.comp.lang. js.apps  (a new google group)

>

Here is the description of this open public newsgroup:
A place where good full-length, full-featured, pure (or near-pure)
JavaScript large and larger applications are described and their
code shared and explained.  The language used for browser programs
should be all javascript. With some programs a little php or other
cgi may of course be involved.

>

I am curious about what constitutes a "large" or even "larger
full-blown" application. My understanding of javascript is that it is
used more to create several small programs that appear here and there
on a website. Fo

r

sure, they can be linked somewhat using cookies and form values, but
give

n

the limitations (i.e. no filesystem i/o, no network i/o except back
to th

e

same server, etc), the applications tend to be small.

>

So, out of idle curiosity, I went to the web site you mentioned, but
I di

d

not see any javascript applications of any size. I even tried the
link in your "motivation " message that is supposed to showcase your
work:

>

xttp://nottoolate.info

>

This simply re-directed me to:

>

xttp://mynichecomputin g.com/digitallearning/

>

Still no javascript. (Note: I have changed http to xttp in my post to
prevent anyone else from accidentally wasting his time.)

>

Did you expect the programs to be right on the
home page?  What a jerK!!  Look for links.

>
I did look for links but alas, could not find any.
>
Why not post a few showing a few of your glorious megalithic application?- Hide quoted text -
>
- Show quoted text -

I really don't know how you can't identify links (they
are BLUE, as they so often are)

One link in the _heading_ at the top of the main page is:

http://mynichecomputing.com/GuideInfoandPlanner/UniversalDD.htm

that program provides a link to

http://mynichecomputing.com/ReadIt/translateT.html

And, another major link on the digitallearning site's main
page is http://mynichecomputing.com/linkGuider/
which itself is direct link to a little application plus
there are links to many others from that page.

[Mike Duffy]

Re: Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

lorlarz <lorlarz@gmail. comwrote in
news:97bac227-0c68-4f76-bb76-34cd39b24efb@w7 g2000hsa.google groups.com:

>
The above understanding of JavaScript is precisely what I know
is wrong, and several (including myself) have proven it wrong.
There is the capability for full programs ... IN JAVASCRIPT.

The fact that there are those still who do not even realize
this is sad and is why the new google group has been started.

Check out my javascript phone poem generator. Go to:

http://pages.videotron.com/duffym/poetry.htm

and take the exam at the bottom of the page.