Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

[Dr J R Stockton]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

In comp.lang.javas cript message <c9f7e60d-91a8-4890-82ed-3710c3563a12@x4
1g2000hsb.googl egroups.com>, Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:23:47, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_wa r@yahoo.compost ed:

>
>I really appreciate your help, but I have a philosophical disagreement
>with the notion that a public forum requires its own "law library" and
>"legal procedures"....

Arriving and arguing with accepted convention is juvenile, and leads to
the probability of your actual questions being ignored by the more
sensible experts, and yourself ranted at by the All-Höchster.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. ???@merlyn.demo n.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/- FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Check boilerplate spelling -- error is a public sign of incompetence.
Never fully trust an article from a poster who gives no full real name.

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 18, 4:25 pm, Dr J R Stockton <j...@merlyn.de mon.co.ukwrote:

>
>
Arriving and arguing with accepted convention is juvenile, and leads to
the probability of your actual questions being ignored by the more
sensible experts, and yourself ranted at by the All-Höchster.

I don't know why expressing oneself should be "arguing" to others --
nor, I maintain, why a *public* place belonging to no one should have
rules against things which harms no one -- but wer ist der All-
Höchster when he's at home???

>
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. ?...@merlyn.dem on.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/- FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Check boilerplate spelling -- error is a public sign of incompetence.
Never fully trust an article from a poster who gives no full real name..

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 18, 2:58 pm, Kevin Scholl <ksch...@comcas t.netwrote:

>
>
That may be in and of itself true. However, if bottom posting is the
clearly-defined preference of THIS group and as you say "doesn't harm
anyone", then why not exercise some common courtesy and adhere to that
methodology?

Sure thing; I often bottom-post, too, because it really is all the
same to me and I do one or the other without thinking about it,
actually...but this "tyranny of the majority" over what is a non-issue
is something which I find more harmful than bottom-posting. I'd be
against such "rules" even if it were the other way around, if somehow
the majority decided that top-posting is what *should* be the case.

Again, toilet paper over or under...I really can't see "legislatin g"
such a thing, whether by law or mere public opinion!

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 18, 3:39 pm, Gregor Kofler <use...@gregork ofler.atwrote:

>
>
It does. Anyway, if you want people to help you with your problem, you
should follow their suggestions and advices, do them the asked favour.

I really hope we as a species will one day get beyond "political
pandering"...it makes for a lot of dishonesty and cynicism in society.

The way you act, won't help you with your problem, and make you look
like a moron. But you probably don't care about that either.

Why do people spend so much time worrying about not looking like a
moron? Honestly, rules are for children. But okay, if we must treat
each other like little JavaScript codes and little JavaScript
interpreters that get thrown off-course by top-posting, all right,
I'll adopt your usenet "semantics" ....

Gregor
>
--http://photo.gregorkof ler.at::: Landschafts- und Reisefotografie http://web.gregorkofle r.com ::: meine JS-Spielwiesehttp://www.image2d.com ::: Bildagentur für den alpinen Raum

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 18, 3:04 pm, Michael Wojcik <mwoj...@newsgu y.comwrote:

>
>
Many people use inline quoting in email, so that statement often isn't
true. Nor is it relevant.
>
Usenet existed long before blogs, and may well predate the first MUA
that used top-quoting by default. mailx used an external editor, so it
didn't define a quoting behavior per se, but the ~m command formatted
quoted text for inline quotation (ie, indented with a configurable
prefix). VMS Mail's "reply/extract" just copied the original text into
the new message unchanged; quoting style was left to the user. VM/CMS
MAIL favored inline quoting with REPLY TEXT - it copied the message
text into the editor, and suggested you insert lines for you reply
into the quoted text using PF2.
>
There seems to be a widespread belief that Microsoft Outhouse
popularized top-quoting. It's a very late arrival to this party.
>
Certainly, top-quoting was rare on Usenet prior to AOL and Eternal
September.
>
You're free to go elsewhere.
>
Gosh, that's insightful. No one has ever made *that* particular
sweeping generalization before. Spoken conversation is usually
informal, too. When you quote someone while you're speaking, do you
say your piece first, and then quote them at the end?
>
(And calling "world wide web" an "instance of 'informal conversation'"
is not just wildly reductive but a category error. The Web is an
information access method, not a mode of expression.)
>
You're not. There's no shortage of newbies who refuse to learn good
manners.
>
That's debatable. Truscott and Ellis were graduate students when they
created Usenet, and most of the initial users were either academics or
researchers, but it quickly grew outside that community. Cleveland
Freenet made it generally accessible in 1986, for example. And even
among the early users, few were stereotypical academics in the sense
you mean.
>
OK, cite *anything* from the _MLA Handbook_ that applies to this
discussion. Pick an edition - I think I have most of them.
>
Yes. And the people whom you're asking to read your notes have
conventions that they follow, so it would behoove you to follow them.
>
Once upon a time, students were required to study a modicum of
rhetoric, including how to appeal to their audience. Would that it
were still so.
>
Fine. No one here needs to read or respond to your postings, either.
I'll be happy to ignore anything else you post that's not properly quoted.
>
We can. We don't want to. See the difference?

What are y'all, women?? This is how women act -- and then they
complain how guys are always lying to them just to get into their
skirts!

I'm not here to argue about this non-issue, though I've never
discussed this with programmer-types and that's why I've asked you all
your opinions...well , this is my last post in this thread on this,
'cause like everything else about human beings, it's got nothing to do
with logic and reason and everything to do with one's ego (see
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/op...17kristof.html for some
proof of what research studies have found time and time again: people
do not arrive at beliefs through a process of logical deduction).

To me, it seems like a short little response just looks and "feels"
better on top of a big long post, which is why I'd usually be inclined
to put it on top. But since you are so touchy about it, sure, Happy
Birthday, here's my reply on the bottom. And it's so short because I
can see that this is an emotional issue for you all and I don't want
to further offend anyone over this non-issue.

--
Michael Wojcik

[Joost Diepenmaat]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_wa r@yahoo.comwrit es:

But okay; I see I'm among some serious hard-core "Dungeon Masters"
here who are very strict about rules! I still don't really get the
psychology of insisting on only one way of doing things when it comes
to what seems to be a non-issue, but I can certainly respect that most
people want bottom and interleaved posting.

Note that the rules (conventions, realy) are just technicalities about
the format of debates / threads. They say nothing about how to behave or
what to say (besides staying more or less on topic). This is just to
make sure that the debates themselves are easy to follow. In other
words, it's just about not needlessly wasting people's time; they're
already spending their time reading the post at all.

Also, some of the people here *are* strict nit-pickers, but they also
tend to have a fairly high grasp of the topic, so don't piss them off
needlessly if you want to have useful answers to your questions :-)

Anyway, thanks for bending to peer-pressure, I guess :-)

Joost.

--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

Joost Diepenmaat wrote:

Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_wa r@yahoo.comwrit es:

>But okay; I see I'm among some serious hard-core "Dungeon Masters"
>here who are very strict about rules! I still don't really get the
>psychology of insisting on only one way of doing things when it comes
>to what seems to be a non-issue, but I can certainly respect that most
>people want bottom and interleaved posting.

>
Note that the rules (conventions, realy) are just technicalities about
the format of debates / threads. They say nothing about how to behave or
what to say (besides staying more or less on topic). [...]
Anyway, thanks for bending to peer-pressure, I guess :-)

+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
=============== =============== =============== =============== ======

[Dr J R Stockton]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

In comp.lang.javas cript message <f730a795-68d9-4ef2-ac39-55710e95d186@c6
5g2000hsa.googl egroups.com>, Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:49:26, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_wa r@yahoo.compost ed:

>On Apr 18, 4:25 pm, Dr J R Stockton <j...@merlyn.de mon.co.ukwrote:

>>
>>
>Arriving and arguing with accepted convention is juvenile, and leads to
>the probability of your actual questions being ignored by the more
>sensible experts, and yourself ranted at by the All-Höchster.

>
>I don't know why expressing oneself should be "arguing" to others --
>nor, I maintain, why a *public* place belonging to no one should have
>rules against things which harms no one -- but wer ist der All-
>Höchster when he's at home???
>

>>
>--
>(c)

Good manners calls for reading for a while before writing. Had you done
so effectively, you would not have needed to ask about Grumpy. Had you
done so, you would have seen and read the newsgroup FAQ, in which the
desire for compliance with accepted convention is indicated. And you
would have known not to quote signatures.

And if you were to use properly-designed newsreader software, you would
have the opportunity of seeing why top-posting is bad.

Grow up, use your own name, get some respectable software, let your
present reputation be forgotten, and you may then reasonably hope for
favourable attention.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. replyYYWW merlyn demon co uk Turnpike 6.05.
Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html-Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/news-use.htm: about usage of News.
No Encoding. Quotes precede replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Mail no News.

[Munged]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

Hi

This is my first post on this news group and it's a shame it should be
on this off topic subject. No doubt it will earn me Elvish wrath.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_wa r@yahoo.comwrot e:

>On Apr 18, 3:39 pm, Gregor Kofler <use...@gregork ofler.atwrote:

>I really hope we as a species will one day get beyond "political
>pandering"...i t makes for a lot of dishonesty and cynicism in society.

With respect, it's not anything of the sort. If you join any group of
people from the outside (extending a real world analogy) it is
sensible and minimally polite to take the time to learn the way the
group functions and conform to that. Telling a group of people in
effect "you're a load of stuck up bullies" may be true, but it isn't
going to get you well received, and if you're after help, it's a
matter of enlightened self interest to listen to advice you've been
given. When you're an accepted part of the group you could well
suggest that the virtues of top, bottom and interspersed answering be
debated.

>Why do people spend so much time worrying about not looking like a
>moron? Honestly, rules are for children.

Tsk. No they aren't. Polite behaviour is the oil in the machinery of
social interraction. Even Heinlein knew that. If you behaved exactly
as you wished face to face with other people, without regard to their
likes and dislikes or the mores of the group, you would stand a very
good chance of getting a poke in the nose. Here, you'll be spared
that, but I guess you'll also be spared the help you might have got.

That said, I've rarely seen a group of more stuck up self satisfied
arrogant prigs in one place. I first subscribed a fortnight ago to
this newsgroup in the hope of getting help. Having read the level of
"help" I might get, I decided to abandon any attempt. I don't want to
be insulted, condescended to or treated like all kinds of a moron,
simply because I don't HAPPEN to understand Javascript as well as they
do. It doesn't make me dumb, lazy or stupid, merely ignorant, and
being treated as some retarded imbecile doesn't cure my ignorance.

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 19, 7:41 pm, Munged <spuri...@hotma il.comwrote:

>
>
<SNIP b/c I'd said I won't comment on "top-posting" anymore in this thread (would look like I'm "arguing" even though I'm not!>
>
That said, I've rarely seen a group of more stuck up self satisfied
arrogant prigs in one place. I first subscribed a fortnight ago to
this newsgroup in the hope of getting help. Having read the level of
"help" I might get, I decided to abandon any attempt. I don't want to
be insulted, condescended to or treated like all kinds of a moron,
simply because I don't HAPPEN to understand Javascript as well as they
do. It doesn't make me dumb, lazy or stupid, merely ignorant, and
being treated as some retarded imbecile doesn't cure my ignorance.

I must say, I actually did get help with my JavaScript questions,
right from the start, so I'm very surprised by your experience! I was
actually afraid of the treatment you actually had, since it seems de
rigeur for usenet to give newbies or even just newcomers to a group
the "hazing" treatment -- but people have been totally helpful right
from the start.

That's so weird...people are so strange, I think when we finally have
a thinking machine it will be built by other machines, not by a
human....

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness

On Apr 19, 3:16 pm, Dr J R Stockton <j...@merlyn.de mon.co.ukwrote:

>
>
<SNIP>
>
Grow up, use your own name, get some respectable software, let your
present reputation be forgotten, and you may then reasonably hope for
favourable attention.

I think part of being a grown-up is not worrying about "names" and
"brands" ("respectabl e software") and "reputation " and "favorable
attention"...se riously, it's amazing how many "grown-ups" act like
children, only with more elaborate outward forms to display.
Honestly, just look at the world, and how it's **all** about show and
outward appearance -- AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT!

As long as you care about conventions, your mind remains conventional,
no matter what new conventions you might come up with.

So not only top-posting, but a "real name" and "respectabl e software"
and a "good reputation"...a ch, how does anyone expect society to
change if people keep living by the same rules??

I think the whole promise of the internet is precisely its potentially
"anarchical " nature...in life, people might not ever bother helping
each other because of appearances...h ere, physical appearances are set
aside but the "programmin g class" of "appearance s" still have their
old effects, only on other "variables" now....

Tsk, tsk!

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. replyYYWW merlyn demon co uk Turnpike 6.05.
Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html-Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/news-use.htm: about usage of News.
No Encoding. Quotes precede replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Mail no News.

[Prisoner at War]

Re: Internet Explorer JavaScript Weirdness


Me, troll?

You're the one with pointed ears, after all!

You what's really sad?

Bad enough you have such a small mind...but you spend your time trying
to turn others against me, too.


Wow, just how insecure can you be??



On Apr 19, 2:46 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
wrote:

>
>
+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
=============== =============== =============== =============== ======