Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively (exist or non-exist)?

[Markus Mohr]

Hello,

tonight I'm looking for a javascript piece of code which enables me to
detect whether the user's internet browser has a favourites sidebar
open and thus limits the "display space" of the adjacent table to a
certain width.
Background: I have created a webpage based on a 2 vs. 4 table
structure:
table 01 table02
table 11 table12
table21 table22
table31 table32
Tables 01 - 31 contain the navigation layer, tables 02 - 32 contain
various contents. Tables 02 - 32 are open to the right side, i. e.
tables 01 - 31 have a defined width, tables 02 - 32 have the width of
"*".
Now, if a visitor to the website has his favourites sidebar open, the
width of tables 02 - 32 gets smaller ("* minus width of favourites
sidebar").
Is there any way to detect whether the favourites sidebar is open, and
of which width it is?

Sincerely


Markus Mohr

[Lasse Reichstein Nielsen]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressedselect ively (exist or non-exist)?

Markus Mohr <markus.mohr@ma zimoi.de> writes:
[color=blue]
> tonight I'm looking for a javascript piece of code which enables me to
> detect whether the user's internet browser has a favourites sidebar
> open[/color]

Mine doesn't. Mostly because it has no favorites sidebar, it's called
a Hotlist in Opera.
[color=blue]
> and thus limits the "display space" of the adjacent table to a
> certain width.[/color]

That depends more on the size of the browser than on whether a sidebar
is open or not.
[color=blue]
> Is there any way to detect whether the favourites sidebar is open, and
> of which width it is?[/color]

Not that I know of. But as I said, it doesn't really matter. What you
can look at is the size of the browser viewport itself:
<URL:http://jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_9>
(short summary:
var width = (typeof window.innerWid th == "number")?windo w.innerWidth:
(document.docum entElement||doc ument.body).cli entWidth;
)
/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lrn@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively(exi st or non-exist)?

Markus Mohr wrote:
[color=blue]
> tonight I'm looking for a javascript piece of code which enables me to
> detect whether the user's internet browser has a favourites sidebar
> open and thus limits the "display space" of the adjacent table to a
> certain width.[/color]

Don't ever restrict the display of a table to a specific width
which also means: Don't ever use tables for layout purposes.

People are different, systems are different, user agents are
different, display is different. The major advantage of HTML
is it to adjust the flow of content to the display area
automagically. So do not try to impose the opposite.


PointedEars

[Markus Mohr]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively (exist or non-exist)?

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:15:42 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars@we b.de> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Markus Mohr wrote:
>[color=green]
>> [....][/color]
>
>People are different, systems are different, user agents are
>different, display is different. The major advantage of HTML
>is it to adjust the flow of content to the display area
>automagicall y. So do not try to impose the opposite.[/color]

Fully agree, but the people had such a website based on tables, and
now I have to cope with the same layout and display due to CI reasons.

Furthermore, within the display per se (i. e. to table with the
information to be shown), it is demanded to adjust the text relative
to a background image wich must not interfere with the text (text on
the left and image on the right) because it is too rich of contrast,
thus the superimposed text would become illegible.

I'm sorry, but these are not the conditions I have chosen.

Sincerely


Markus Mohr

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively(exi st or non-exist)?

Markus Mohr wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:15:42 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> <PointedEars@we b.de> wrote:[/color]

Please shorten the attribution to one line, thanks.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Markus Mohr wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> [....][/color]
>>
>> People are different, systems are different, user agents are
>> different, display is different. The major advantage of HTML
>> is it to adjust the flow of content to the display area
>> automagically. So do not try to impose the opposite.[/color]
>
> Fully agree, but the people had such a website based on tables, and
> now I have to cope with the same layout and display due to CI reasons.[/color]

Your main problem is *not* the Favorites sidebar but anything that
forces the display area of the user to differ from that of the author.
So the only thing you have to make sure is that the table does not
extend the display width. Fortunately, CSS provides means for this
which are also both more reliable and more efficient than JavaScript
here (because the latter can be disabled in more UAs or not even being
supported and, as I understand it, it requires more computing time):

<table ... style="width:99 %; max-width:99%">
...
</table>

YMMV.
[color=blue]
> Furthermore, within the display per se (i. e. to table with the
> information to be shown), it is demanded to adjust the text relative
> to a background image wich must not interfere with the text (text on
> the left and image on the right) because it is too rich of contrast,
> thus the superimposed text would become illegible.[/color]

You cannot fix borken design neither with CSS nor with JavaScript. So if
you want a design that results in adequate display for resizable display
areas (which includes those restricted by sidebars) and/or different
display resolutions, the design needs to be changed.
[color=blue]
> I'm sorry, but these are not the conditions I have chosen.[/color]

Tough luck. Maybe you should venture to show your expert knowledge:
Tell them that what they have done ignores the reality of the used
medium (using other words, of course ;-)) and provide alternatives.
Or, OTOH, you should drop the assignment. Anything else only gets
you more in trouble.


HTH

PointedEars

[Markus Mohr]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively (exist or non-exist)?

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:10 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars@we b.de> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Markus Mohr wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:15:42 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>> <PointedEars@we b.de> wrote:[/color]
>
>Please shorten the attribution to one line, thanks.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Markus Mohr wrote:
>>>
>>>> [....]
>>>[/color]
>> I'm sorry, but these are not the conditions I have chosen.[/color]
>
>Tough luck. Maybe you should venture to show your expert knowledge:
>Tell them that what they have done ignores the reality of the used
>medium (using other words, of course ;-)) and provide alternatives.
>Or, OTOH, you should drop the assignment. Anything else only gets
>you more in trouble.[/color]

True, but they stick to the CI conform design, and I have no other
choice than to handle it this way. Unfortunetaly, the understanding of
both design and coding functionality is not widespread in this
company, so that I haven't got anyone to share my point of view.

But I have solved the problem in another way: letting the text flow
around the right-aligned image as simple HTML statement, and
apparently everybody seems to be happy with it (apart from myself).

Sincerely and thank you


Markus

[Markus Mohr]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively (exist or non-exist)?

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:02:57 +0100, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
<lrn@hotpop.com > wrote:
[color=blue]
>Markus Mohr <markus.mohr@ma zimoi.de> writes:
>[color=green]
>> tonight I'm looking for a javascript piece of code which enables me to
>> detect whether the user's internet browser has a favourites sidebar
>> open[/color]
>
>Mine doesn't. Mostly because it has no favorites sidebar, it's called
>a Hotlist in Opera.[/color]

Yes, you're right, mine as well, but the people who were disturbed by
what they saw, of course and obviously, only had the IE at hand ....
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Is there any way to detect whether the favourites sidebar is open, and
>> of which width it is?[/color]
>
>Not that I know of. But as I said, it doesn't really matter. What you
>can look at is the size of the browser viewport itself:
><URL:http://jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_9>
>(short summary:
> var width = (typeof window.innerWid th == "number")?windo w.innerWidth:
> (document.docum entElement||doc ument.body).cli entWidth;[/color]

Very good hint, thank you. But meanwhile I had to solve the problem in
a different way (simply letting the text flow around the image in a
HTML way), and all of a sudden even the most sceptical minds seem to
be satisfied.

Thank you very much for your help,


Markus Mohr

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Re: Can the Favourites Sidebar (IE, Opera, etc.) be addressed selectively(exi st or non-exist)?

Markus Mohr wrote:
[color=blue]
> But I have solved the problem in another way: letting the text flow
> around the right-aligned image as simple HTML statement, and
> apparently everybody seems to be happy with it (apart from myself).[/color]

Fine. One more thing: HTML is a markup language, not a programming
language. HTML has elements, composed of tags, having attributes
having values. It has no statements.
[color=blue]
> Sincerely and thank you[/color]

You are welcome.


PointedEars