invisible javascript

**Michael Winter** · Jul 20 '05, 11:51 AM

Re: invisible javascript

"Mr. x" wrote on 13/11/2003:
[color=blue]
> Hello,
> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who[/color]
enter into[color=blue]
> my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]

No-one can see your code, only its affects, just by entering your
web-site, so it's already invisible. You obviously mean something
else. Could you explain further?

Mike

--
Michael Winter
M.Winter@[no-spam]blueyonder.co.u k (remove [no-spam] to reply)

**Douglas Crockford** · Jul 20 '05, 11:51 AM

Re: invisible javascript

> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter into[color=blue]
> my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]

No, you can't. Anyone who tells you different is either misinformed or lying.

**Evertjan.** · Jul 20 '05, 11:52 AM

Re: invisible javascript

Douglas Crockford wrote on 14 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javas cript:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter
>> into my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]
>
> No, you can't. Anyone who tells you different is either misinformed or
> lying.[/color]

Yes, you can.

Use Serverside ASP javascript.

Sorry, that is not what you ment, I suppose. ;-}

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

**Mr. x** · Jul 20 '05, 11:52 AM

Re: invisible javascript

I see that if I do :
<html>
....
<script language = "javascript >
... here is my code
</script>
</html>

If I open the html source - I see the java-script code.
I want also to use the java-script on the client side,
but I don't know how.
Please, help.

Thanks :)

"Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoo rt@interxnl.net > wrote in message
news:Xns9433659 C26661eejj99@19 4.109.133.29...[color=blue]
> Douglas Crockford wrote on 14 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javas cript:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter
> >> into my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]
> >
> > No, you can't. Anyone who tells you different is either misinformed or
> > lying.[/color]
>
> Yes, you can.
>
> Use Serverside ASP javascript.
>
> Sorry, that is not what you ment, I suppose. ;-}
>
> --
> Evertjan.
> The Netherlands.
> (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)[/color]

**Markus Ernst** · Jul 20 '05, 11:52 AM

Re: invisible javascript

"Mr. x" <a@b.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3fb40ab7$1 @news.012.net.i l...[color=blue]
> Hello,
> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter into
> my site by IE browser ? - How ?
>
> Thanks :)
>
>[/color]

You ask the community to help you for free in this forum - and your scripts
are what you can give back to the community ;-)

I had a look at your site and played some of your games. If you coded that
all by yourself it's impressing. But some of these games are also available
for free download in script archives. So even if you re-invented them on
your own, if somebody wants to get them he/she will anyway.

As you have to deliver the code to the user agent for playing, there's no
way to hide it. You can disable the right click button but you can't disable
the view source command, and even if you could you would not be able to
prevent somebody from opening the file in a text editor.

Just go on writing nice stuff and have fun with it.

--
Markus

**kaeli** · Jul 20 '05, 11:52 AM

Re: invisible javascript

In article <3fb40ab7$1@new s.012.net.il>, a@b.com enlightened us with...[color=blue]
> Hello,
> Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter into
> my site by IE browser ? - How ?
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
>[/color]

You can use an obfuscator, but anyone who actually knows script enough
to know what that is will go find a deobfuscator.
It discourages idiots from copying, though.

Other than that, if the browser can see it, so can I.

--
~kaeli~
A lot of money is tainted - It taint yours and it taint mine.

http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart

http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

**Mr. x** · Jul 20 '05, 11:52 AM

Re: invisible javascript

Scripts are indeed not mine (only on the games ...),
I did some minor changes to translate them to Hebrew.
The other forums are all made by myself.

If I cannot hide my own java scripts, so I cannot - I'll live with that...

Thanks anyway :)

"Markus Ernst" <derernst@NO#SP #AMgmx.ch> wrote in message
news:3fb4dc1c$0 $3162$afc38c87@ news.easynet.ch ...[color=blue]
> "Mr. x" <a@b.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag[/color]
news:3fb40ab7$1 @news.012.net.i l...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Hello,
> > Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter[/color][/color]
into[color=blue][color=green]
> > my site by IE browser ? - How ?
> >
> > Thanks :)
> >
> >[/color]
>
> You ask the community to help you for free in this forum - and your[/color]
scripts[color=blue]
> are what you can give back to the community ;-)
>
> I had a look at your site and played some of your games. If you coded that
> all by yourself it's impressing. But some of these games are also[/color]
available[color=blue]
> for free download in script archives. So even if you re-invented them on
> your own, if somebody wants to get them he/she will anyway.
>
> As you have to deliver the code to the user agent for playing, there's no
> way to hide it. You can disable the right click button but you can't[/color]
disable[color=blue]
> the view source command, and even if you could you would not be able to
> prevent somebody from opening the file in a text editor.
>
> Just go on writing nice stuff and have fun with it.
>
> --
> Markus
>
>[/color]

**Ira Baxter** · Jul 20 '05, 11:53 AM

Re: invisible javascript

"kaeli" <tiny_one@NOSPA M.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1e9b 0b101eff0a98996 a@nntp.lucent.c om...[color=blue]
> In article <3fb40ab7$1@new s.012.net.il>, a@b.com enlightened us with...[color=green]
> > Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who enter[/color][/color]
into[color=blue][color=green]
> > my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]
>
> You can use an obfuscator, but anyone who actually knows script enough
> to know what that is will go find a deobfuscator.
>
> Other than that, if the browser can see it, so can I.[/color]

You mean, you could "encode" it with an encoder,
for which you can find a decoder.

If the script is actually obfuscated (e.g., names scrambled,
comments removed), yes, if the browser
can see it, so can you. But you can't find an automatic
program to deobfuscate it. It *is* possible to
"reverse engineer" such code by hand, but if
it is fair size, only idiots will try. It will still
run, and it will still be copyable, just darn
hard to understand or change.

See http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/O...bfuscator.html

--
Ira D. Baxter, Ph.D., CTO 512-250-1018
Semantic Designs, Inc. www.semdesigns.com

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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**HikksNotAtHome** · Jul 20 '05, 11:54 AM

Re: invisible javascript

In article <3fb67595$1@gig a.realtime.net> , "Ira Baxter"
<idbaxter@semde signs.com> writes:

<snip>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Other than that, if the browser can see it, so can I.[/color]
>
>You mean, you could "encode" it with an encoder,
>for which you can find a decoder.[/color]

No, he meant "obfuscate" it.
[color=blue]
>If the script is actually obfuscated (e.g., names scrambled,
>comments removed), yes, if the browser
>can see it, so can you. But you can't find an automatic
>program to deobfuscate it. It *is* possible to
>"reverse engineer" such code by hand, but if
>it is fair size, only idiots will try. It will still
>run, and it will still be copyable, just darn
>hard to understand or change.[/color]

Doesn't matter if its "obfuscated " or "encoded". The fact remains that for the
browser to execute it, it *must* send the code. And getting the original is
trivial from there. To sell an obfuscator and advertise it as "foolproof"
should be illegal in civilized countries as false advertising.
[color=blue]
>See http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/O...bfuscator.html
>[/color]

Why? Its a waste of time to try to stop it.
--
Randy

**Douglas Crockford** · Jul 20 '05, 11:54 AM

Re: invisible javascript

> >If the script is actually obfuscated (e.g., names scrambled,[color=blue][color=green]
> >comments removed), yes, if the browser
> >can see it, so can you. But you can't find an automatic
> >program to deobfuscate it. It *is* possible to
> >"reverse engineer" such code by hand, but if
> >it is fair size, only idiots will try. It will still
> >run, and it will still be copyable, just darn
> >hard to understand or change.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Doesn't matter if its "obfuscated " or "encoded". The fact remains that for the
> browser to execute it, it *must* send the code. And getting the original is
> trivial from there. To sell an obfuscator and advertise it as "foolproof"
> should be illegal in civilized countries as false advertising.[/color]

Randy is exactly right on this. Obfuscation does not protect secrets.

**Richard Cornford** · Jul 20 '05, 11:54 AM

Re: invisible javascript

"HikksNotAtHome " <hikksnotathome @aol.com> wrote in message
news:2003111516 4849.22081.0000 1879@mb-m17.aol.com...
<snip>[color=blue]
>... . To sell an obfuscator and advertise it as "foolproof"
>should be illegal in civilized countries as false advertising.[/color]
<snip>

It often seems to me that advertisers get away with making statements
that might reasonably be interpreted as untrue by using forms of words
that could be subject to alternative and contradictory interpretation.
In this case, for example, it could be argued that "foolproof" would be
intended to mean "proof against fools", a much lower standard that is
almost trivial to comply with.

I am reminded of ELF's UK petrol (gasoline) retailing outlets displaying
a large banner with the legend "hyper-low prices", which, as hyper is a
Greek prefix meaning "above", literally means "above low prices" or "not
cheap". Clearly that was not the interpretation that the readers of the
banner were expected to make, but ELF was complying with the UK
advertising laws by making no untrue claims (just demonstrating a
contempt for their customers).

I have to agree that obfuscating client-side scripts is a waste of time.
The only part of the process that cannot be reversed by freely available
software is the modification of the global and local variable
identifiers and, while meaningful identifier names make scripts easier
to understand, cryptic identifier names hardly hinder understanding.
Interpreting the behaviour of a client-side script is almost entirely
down to looking at the script's DOM interaction and the DOM property
names cannot be obfuscated or the script won't work.

Richard.

**Charlene Russ** · Jul 20 '05, 11:55 AM

Re: invisible javascript

I am confused... all anyone has to do is view source in a web browser
and wah-lah there's the JS code.

-Charlene

"Michael Winter" <M.Winter@[no-spam]blueyonder.co.u k> wrote in message
news:P9Usb.3436 $oa2.29119539@n ews-text.cableinet. net...[color=blue]
> "Mr. x" wrote on 13/11/2003:
>[color=green]
> > Hello,
> > Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who[/color]
> enter into[color=green]
> > my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]
>
> No-one can see your code, only its affects, just by entering your
> web-site, so it's already invisible. You obviously mean something
> else. Could you explain further?
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael Winter
> M.Winter@[no-spam]blueyonder.co.u k (remove [no-spam] to reply)
>
>[/color]

**Evertjan.** · Jul 20 '05, 11:55 AM

Re: invisible javascript

Charlene Russ wrote on 17 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javas cript:[color=blue]
> "Michael Winter" <M.Winter@[no-spam]blueyonder.co.u k> wrote in message
> news:P9Usb.3436 $oa2.29119539@n ews-text.cableinet. net...[color=green]
>> "Mr. x" wrote on 13/11/2003:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Hello,
>> > Can I make my java script code be invisible to other people who[/color]
>> enter into[color=darkred]
>> > my site by IE browser ? - How ?[/color]
>>
>> No-one can see your code, only its affects, just by entering your
>> web-site, so it's already invisible. You obviously mean something
>> else. Could you explain further?[/color]
> I am confused... all anyone has to do is view source in a web browser
> and wah-lah there's the JS code.[/color]

Don't be, all you have to do is put 35 returns on the top of your html page
and 50% of the view-sorcerers will think that they have an empty page.

Additional measures increase this percentage, but you cannot fool the very
experienced readers of this NG anytime.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

**Douglas Crockford** · Jul 20 '05, 11:55 AM

Re: invisible javascript

> Don't be, all you have to do is put 35 returns on the top of your html page[color=blue]
> and 50% of the view-sorcerers will think that they have an empty page.
>
> Additional measures increase this percentage, but you cannot fool the very
> experienced readers of this NG anytime.[/color]

That's just silly.

invisible javascript

invisible javascript

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