standard to metric converter program

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  • Richard Cornford

    #16
    Re: standard to metric converter program

    "Dr John Stockton" <spam@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:e3oLRIOWMt n$EwtY@merlyn.d emon.co.uk...
    <snip>[color=blue]
    >Outside the USA, it is widely realised that most Americans
    >know or care little for the ways of the rest of the world.
    >This is, in fact, why shooting, etc., at Americans is such
    >a popular pastime in the more excitable countries.[/color]
    <snip>

    I am disappointed on purely logical grounds that you should propose this
    as a cause and effect relationship, and especially that you would state
    it as factual.

    My experience of the population of the UK is that the majority know and
    care little for the ways of the rest of the world. And my impression of
    the world population as a whole is that a significant proportion are too
    busy trying to survive to spare much thought for the peoples of distant
    lands.

    But the generalisations are irrelevant. Ignorance (of one thing or
    another) is widespread, inevitable and ultimately curable. The
    individual, upon being exposed to the notion that there are more ways of
    looking at any situation than just their own personal perspective, may
    prove to be too arrogant, self important and xenophobic to react with
    anything but hostility, then again they may recognise the reality of the
    situation, slap themselves on the forehead and never make the same
    mistake again.

    There is a danger in making generalisations about populations, nations,
    races, cultures, groups, etc. Individuals deserve to be judged by (and
    responsible for) their own actions.

    Richard.


    Comment

    • HikksNotAtHome

      #17
      Re: standard to metric converter program

      In article <bnmb1r0llh@drn .newsguy.com>, Lee <REM0VElbspamtr ap@cox.net> writes:
      [color=blue][color=green]
      >>As "they" was me, you could have seen my jokingly staged confusion was
      >>followed by a correct help link, more to the OP's point but forgotten in
      >>the follow up.[/color]
      >
      >No, actually, I don't think I ever read your original response,
      >and wouldn't have objected to some good-natured teasing about it.
      >My objection is to the characterizatio n of the use of the term
      >"standard" as:
      >
      > "... indicative of a lack of understanding of the fact that
      > the web is world wide, ..."[/color]

      Which would make me the "they". And if I weren't American, I probably wouldn't
      find this whole conversation hilariously funny.
      [color=blue]
      >when, in fact, the term "standard" in this case has become an
      >idiomatic name for the measurement system, which has lost most
      >of the original meaning of being used universally.[/color]

      And if you go to just about any non-American country and ask "Whats the
      standard measurement of length", you will get "Meters" 99% of the time.
      [color=blue]
      >At one time it was common to call it the "English" system of
      >measurement, but that became confusing when the UK dropped it.[/color]

      And now that the rest of the world has dropped it, it causes confusion when the
      term is used in an international medium.

      And even being American, I still believe that Americans - for the most part -
      are obnoxiously ignorant of what goes on outside the borders of this country.
      "Thats not how we do it, so it must be wrong".
      --
      Randy

      Comment

      • Lee

        #18
        Re: standard to metric converter program

        Fabian said:[color=blue]
        >
        >Lee hu kiteb:
        >[/color]
        [color=blue][color=green]
        >> The point is to demonstrate that "standard" is a correct way
        >> to refer to the "English" measurement system in US English,
        >> and is not, as the previous poster suggested, meant to suggest
        >> that it is the international standard system of measurement.[/color]
        >
        >
        >Unless you are writing for a specific national audience, it is bad style
        >to use words for a specific meaning that is used only in that country.[/color]

        No it isn't, if the meaning is clear in context.
        [color=blue][color=green]
        >> Nonsense. Any English-speaker who can't figure out what
        >> "standard" means when contrasted with "metric" shouldn't
        >> be trying to use a keyboard without supervision.[/color]
        >
        >I do believe there are many people on the Internet, including this
        >particular newsgroup, whose first language is NOT English.[/color]

        Of course. But if their vocabularly includes words like "inch",
        "mile", and "gallon", it should not be confusing to them to find
        "standard" contrasted with "metric".

        [color=blue][color=green]
        >> I refuse to believe that anybody who responded to the OP was
        >> confused by the meaning. They were simply looking for a
        >> chance to tweak an American nose.[/color]
        >
        >In my country, "standard" (yes, its even an English-speaking country!
        >English is an official language!) refers to units such as the xiber and
        >the pulzier. Are these maybe what you had in mind?[/color]

        I would hope that in your English-speaking country, it is normal
        to consider the context when interpretting a word.

        Comment

        • Lee

          #19
          Re: standard to metric converter program

          HikksNotAtHome said:[color=blue]
          >
          >In article <bnmb1r0llh@drn .newsguy.com>, Lee <REM0VElbspamtr ap@cox.net> writes:
          >[color=green][color=darkred]
          >>>As "they" was me, you could have seen my jokingly staged confusion was
          >>>followed by a correct help link, more to the OP's point but forgotten in
          >>>the follow up.[/color]
          >>
          >>No, actually, I don't think I ever read your original response,
          >>and wouldn't have objected to some good-natured teasing about it.
          >>My objection is to the characterizatio n of the use of the term
          >>"standard" as:
          >>
          >> "... indicative of a lack of understanding of the fact that
          >> the web is world wide, ..."[/color]
          >
          >Which would make me the "they". And if I weren't American, I probably wouldn't
          >find this whole conversation hilariously funny.[/color]

          I don't see the humor. Apparently you are bigotted against
          your own people. That happens.
          [color=blue][color=green]
          >>when, in fact, the term "standard" in this case has become an
          >>idiomatic name for the measurement system, which has lost most
          >>of the original meaning of being used universally.[/color]
          >
          >And if you go to just about any non-American country and ask "Whats the
          >standard measurement of length", you will get "Meters" 99% of the time.[/color]

          Of course. Why don't you see that that is not relevant?
          [color=blue][color=green]
          >>At one time it was common to call it the "English" system of
          >>measurement , but that became confusing when the UK dropped it.[/color]
          >
          >And now that the rest of the world has dropped it, it causes confusion when the
          >term is used in an international medium.[/color]

          Not when used in the context of "standard" vs "metric".

          Comment

          • Lee

            #20
            Re: standard to metric converter program

            Pat Norton said:[color=blue]
            >
            >Lee wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
            >>>Even that lack of understanding inside the U.S. has[/color]
            >>led to a multimillion dollar crash on Mars.
            >>
            >>That crash was caused by the complete failure to
            >>specify the measurement system, not by
            >>misunderstand ing "standard" vs "metric".[/color]
            >
            >The specification mandated metric units. The subcontractor, Lockheed
            >Martin, failed use metric units.[/color]

            Ok, thanks.
            I heard wrong or mis-remembered. The point stands that it was
            not confusing of the terms "standard" vs "metric".

            Comment

            • Dr John Stockton

              #21
              Re: standard to metric converter program

              JRS: In article <3f9ed665$0$223 9$afc38c87@news .optusnet.com.a u>, seen
              in news:comp.lang. javascript, RIck Measham <rickm@spam-site.net.au>
              posted at Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:50:21 :-[color=blue]
              >piaseckiac wrote:
              >[color=green]
              >> I am producing a website on air and need a link to change the entire
              >> website from standard to metric for temperature, pressure,
              >> miles-kilometers, and volume. Thank you.[/color]
              >
              >If you're just looking for a way to convert static imperial values to static
              >metric values, then Google is your friend.[/color]


              Provided that one remembers that the units used in America, which they
              tend to call English units, are not necessarily the same size as the
              units of the same name which have in the past been used in England, the
              rest of the UK, and in the Dominions and the other Colonies.

              The only safe name for the quaint units still used in America is
              probably "American units"; that way, the Rest of the World will realise
              that they (tRotW) cannot be sure what the Americans are talking about.

              In the above, I disregard Canada, since others can never be sure how
              much they are American and how much they are French; and also any other
              odd countries still using antiquated units (which are they?).

              --
              © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk / ??.Stockton@phy sics.org ©
              Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
              Correct <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line precisely "-- " (SoRFC1036)
              Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SoRFC1036)

              Comment

              • Fabian

                #22
                Re: standard to metric converter program

                Lee hu kiteb:
                [color=blue]
                > Fabian said:[color=green]
                >>
                >> Lee hu kiteb:[/color][/color]
                [color=blue][color=green]
                >> Unless you are writing for a specific national audience, it is bad
                >> style to use words for a specific meaning that is used only in that
                >> country.[/color]
                >
                > No it isn't, if the meaning is clear in context.[/color]

                Read again - the OP gave no context.
                [color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
                >>> Nonsense. Any English-speaker who can't figure out what
                >>> "standard" means when contrasted with "metric" shouldn't
                >>> be trying to use a keyboard without supervision.[/color]
                >>
                >> I do believe there are many people on the Internet, including this
                >> particular newsgroup, whose first language is NOT English.[/color]
                >
                > Of course. But if their vocabularly includes words like "inch",
                > "mile", and "gallon", it should not be confusing to them to find
                > "standard" contrasted with "metric".[/color]


                It would if standard had a specific meaning in that person's country
                which had a different specific meaning in the country of the OP.
                [color=blue][color=green]
                >> In my country, "standard" (yes, its even an English-speaking country!
                >> English is an official language!) refers to units such as the xiber
                >> and the pulzier. Are these maybe what you had in mind?[/color]
                >
                > I would hope that in your English-speaking country, it is normal
                > to consider the context when interpretting a word.[/color]

                Let's see, the OP wanted a "standard to metric" converter. No mention of
                country was involved. Given teh context, any person from my country
                would assume standard *was* referring to the xiber et alii.

                Comment

                • Fabian

                  #23
                  Re: standard to metric converter program

                  Dr John Stockton hu kiteb:
                  [color=blue]
                  > In the above, I disregard Canada, since others can never be sure how
                  > much they are American and how much they are French; and also any
                  > other odd countries still using antiquated units (which are they?).[/color]

                  I maintain a list on my web page. I don't keep track of their current
                  usage, merely their existence.

                  fwiw, furlongs are in current usage in the British train industry, and
                  Japanese house floor area is currently measured in jou (tatami mats).


                  --
                  --
                  Fabian
                  Visit my website often and for long periods!


                  Comment

                  • John G Harris

                    #24
                    Re: standard to metric converter program

                    In article <20031028215231 .06226.00001221 @mb-m19.aol.com>,
                    HikksNotAtHome <hikksnotathome @aol.com> writes
                    <snip>[color=blue]
                    >And if you go to just about any non-American country and ask "Whats the
                    >standard measurement of length", you will get "Meters" 99% of the time.[/color]
                    <snip> ^^^^^^

                    Unlikely : "metres" hasn't got a capital letter and most countries spell
                    it the ISO way :-)

                    John
                    --
                    John Harris

                    Comment

                    • John G Harris

                      #25
                      Re: standard to metric converter program

                      In article <4xGiwPPv77n$Ew o5@merlyn.demon .co.uk>, Dr John Stockton
                      <spam@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> writes
                      <snip>[color=blue]
                      >Provided that one remembers that the units used in America, which they
                      >tend to call English units, are not necessarily the same size as the
                      >units of the same name which have in the past been used in England, the
                      >rest of the UK, and in the Dominions and the other Colonies.[/color]
                      <snip>

                      It's worse than that. When the USA changed the definition of the yard so
                      that 1 inch = 2.54 cm exactly, US industry changed but the US Survey
                      didn't change (or couldn't afford to). There are now two official US
                      miles : the 'survey mile' and the 'international mile'.

                      John
                      --
                      John Harris

                      Comment

                      • Lee

                        #26
                        Re: standard to metric converter program

                        Fabian said:[color=blue]
                        >
                        >Lee hu kiteb:
                        >[color=green]
                        >> Fabian said:[color=darkred]
                        >>>
                        >>> Lee hu kiteb:[/color][/color]
                        >[color=green][color=darkred]
                        >>> Unless you are writing for a specific national audience, it is bad
                        >>> style to use words for a specific meaning that is used only in that
                        >>> country.[/color]
                        >>
                        >> No it isn't, if the meaning is clear in context.[/color]
                        >
                        >Read again - the OP gave no context.[/color]

                        Yes he did. He said he was converting from standard to metric.
                        That's all the context any English-speaker should require.

                        [color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
                        >>>> Nonsense. Any English-speaker who can't figure out what
                        >>>> "standard" means when contrasted with "metric" shouldn't
                        >>>> be trying to use a keyboard without supervision.
                        >>>
                        >>> I do believe there are many people on the Internet, including this
                        >>> particular newsgroup, whose first language is NOT English.[/color]
                        >>
                        >> Of course. But if their vocabularly includes words like "inch",
                        >> "mile", and "gallon", it should not be confusing to them to find
                        >> "standard" contrasted with "metric".[/color]
                        >
                        >
                        >It would if standard had a specific meaning in that person's country
                        >which had a different specific meaning in the country of the OP.[/color]

                        There's no avoiding that possibility. It is very rare, and the people
                        in that other country are more likely to know that their use collides
                        with the US usage than the other way around.

                        [color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
                        >>> In my country, "standard" (yes, its even an English-speaking country!
                        >>> English is an official language!) refers to units such as the xiber
                        >>> and the pulzier. Are these maybe what you had in mind?[/color]
                        >>
                        >> I would hope that in your English-speaking country, it is normal
                        >> to consider the context when interpretting a word.[/color]
                        >
                        >Let's see, the OP wanted a "standard to metric" converter. No mention of
                        >country was involved. Given teh context, any person from my country
                        >would assume standard *was* referring to the xiber et alii.[/color]

                        Really? Were you confused into thinking that, even for a moment,
                        or do you bring some common sense into play in understanding what
                        people mean when the terminology isn't completely precise?

                        Comment

                        • Fabian

                          #27
                          Re: standard to metric converter program

                          John G Harris hu kiteb:
                          [color=blue]
                          > In article <4xGiwPPv77n$Ew o5@merlyn.demon .co.uk>, Dr John Stockton
                          > <spam@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> writes
                          > <snip>[color=green]
                          >> Provided that one remembers that the units used in America, which
                          >> they tend to call English units, are not necessarily the same size
                          >> as the units of the same name which have in the past been used in
                          >> England, the rest of the UK, and in the Dominions and the other
                          >> Colonies.[/color]
                          > <snip>
                          >
                          > It's worse than that. When the USA changed the definition of the yard
                          > so that 1 inch = 2.54 cm exactly, US industry changed but the US
                          > Survey didn't change (or couldn't afford to). There are now two
                          > official US miles : the 'survey mile' and the 'international mile'.[/color]

                          You forgot the nautical mile, officially equal to exactly 1852 metres.

                          And then there is the *standard* nautical mile, which is 1852 *meters*.

                          If you (in general, not specifically) think I am making fun of you, you
                          are probably well deserving of being made fun of on this point. If you
                          decide to believe I am not making fun of you, then no harm whatsoever
                          has been done.

                          --
                          --
                          Fabian
                          Visit my website often and for long periods!


                          Comment

                          • Fabian

                            #28
                            Re: standard to metric converter program

                            Lee hu kiteb:
                            [color=blue]
                            > Fabian said:[/color]
                            [color=blue][color=green]
                            >> Read again - the OP gave no context.[/color]
                            >
                            > Yes he did. He said he was converting from standard to metric.
                            > That's all the context any English-speaker should require.[/color]


                            There are many English speakers who consider standard to be equal to
                            metric. There are many English speakers who learned English as a foreign
                            language, and for them, standard may well refer to something that
                            neither of us has ever heard of.

                            Suppose I asked for a script to convert standard floor areas to metric.
                            Do you assume standard is square yards? I happen to be in Japan right
                            now, so I would in fact be referring to jou, not square yards. There was
                            no context given, so you can't make a useful assumption.
                            [color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
                            >>> Of course. But if their vocabularly includes words like "inch",
                            >>> "mile", and "gallon", it should not be confusing to them to find
                            >>> "standard" contrasted with "metric".[/color]
                            >>
                            >> It would if standard had a specific meaning in that person's country
                            >> which had a different specific meaning in the country of the OP.[/color]
                            >
                            > There's no avoiding that possibility. It is very rare, and the people
                            > in that other country are more likely to know that their use collides
                            > with the US usage than the other way around.[/color]


                            You obviously have no idea how unimportant the USA is considered in my
                            country :) The USA rarely makes news in the national press, except when
                            it interfers in the affairs of a nearby country, and then only as a
                            byline to that country being interfered with. Most people in my country
                            have no idea what units the USA uses.
                            [color=blue][color=green]
                            >> Let's see, the OP wanted a "standard to metric" converter. No
                            >> mention of country was involved. Given teh context, any person from
                            >> my country would assume standard *was* referring to the xiber et
                            >> alii.[/color]
                            >
                            > Really? Were you confused into thinking that, even for a moment,
                            > or do you bring some common sense into play in understanding what
                            > people mean when the terminology isn't completely precise?[/color]

                            Well, I didn't think he was referring to my particular country's
                            definition of standard. I assumed he was referring to his own country's
                            definition of standard. Given that there was no hint as to which country
                            he meant, I had no idea whatsoever what he meant by standard.


                            --
                            --
                            Fabian
                            Visit my website often and for long periods!


                            Comment

                            • Lasse Reichstein Nielsen

                              #29
                              Re: standard to metric converter program

                              Lee <REM0VElbspamtr ap@cox.net> writes:
                              [color=blue]
                              > Yes he did. He said he was converting from standard to metric.
                              > That's all the context any English-speaker should require.[/color]

                              It is enough that I can guess that "standard" is some local standard
                              for measurement from where he comes from, and that I don't know enough
                              about it to help him. I guess that is sufficient.

                              I am not certain I haven't heard the term used about US measurements
                              before, but I guessed that the author was from the US *because* he
                              didn't say.

                              /L
                              --
                              Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lrn@hotpop.com
                              DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>
                              'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'

                              Comment

                              • Dr John Stockton

                                #30
                                Re: standard to metric converter program

                                JRS: In article <bnojok02ou3@dr n.newsguy.com>, seen in
                                news:comp.lang. javascript, Lee <REM0VElbspamtr ap@cox.net> posted at Wed,
                                29 Oct 2003 06:44:36 :-[color=blue]
                                >Pat Norton said:[color=green]
                                >>
                                >>Lee wrote:[color=darkred]
                                >>>>Even that lack of understanding inside the U.S. has
                                >>>led to a multimillion dollar crash on Mars.
                                >>>
                                >>>That crash was caused by the complete failure to
                                >>>specify the measurement system, not by
                                >>>misunderstan ding "standard" vs "metric".[/color]
                                >>
                                >>The specification mandated metric units. The subcontractor, Lockheed
                                >>Martin, failed use metric units.[/color]
                                >
                                >Ok, thanks.
                                >I heard wrong or mis-remembered. The point stands that it was
                                >not confusing of the terms "standard" vs "metric".[/color]

                                There were, it seems, two stupidities involved.

                                One was doing technical work in archaic units.

                                The other was transferring the numbers of the data without checking the
                                units of the data.

                                Without the first, the second might well not have mattered, though there
                                can still be confusion between, say, hectoPascals and megaPascals.

                                --
                                © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk / ??.Stockton@phy sics.org ©
                                Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
                                Correct <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line precisely "-- " (SoRFC1036)
                                Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SoRFC1036)

                                Comment

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