Confusing W3C DOM with JavaScript

[drhowarddrfinedrhoward]

I am learning JavaScript along with the W3C DOM and web programming at the
same time. Just when I thought I had the basics figured out I had a wrench
thrown into my understanding.

When you go to Netscapes JavaScript specs page, they list pages for versions
1.3 through 1.5. I sat down to read the client side information but it is
labeled as "obsolete". But if I go to version 1.5 there is no information
about client side programming. In particular, opening windows, navigator,
etc.

Now, if you look at the W3C DOM, I can't find anything there about opening
windows(etc.). Opera's information talks about supporting "non-standard"
functions such as "windows", etc. But this "non-standard" statement,
coupled with Netscapes "obsolete" tag makes me think the ability to open
other windows is part of the W3C DOM, which it is not.

So...my beliefs now are that the W3C DOM should only be taken as
manipulation of documents and their contents while the "non-standard"
instructions [windows.open()] can be used for windows controls along with
their inherint cross-browser problems.

Or not?

[Andrew Thompson]

Re: Confusing W3C DOM with JavaScript

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:08:14 -0500, drhowarddrfined rhoward wrote:
[color=blue]
> I am learning JavaScript along with the W3C DOM and web programming at the
> same time.[/color]

Do you have a full head of hair?
Take a photograph, later you will be
able to look at it, and remember. ;-)
[color=blue]
> When you go to Netscapes JavaScript specs page,[/color]

Netscape/Mozilla are still pushing the <EMBED>
element, even though it is never accepted as
valid HTML by the only reference on HTML that
matters, the W3C.
....[color=blue]
> Now, if you look at the W3C DOM, I can't find anything there about opening
> windows(etc.).[/color]

'Opening windows' implies either frames or pop-ups.

Neither of these is supported in HTML 4.01 strict,
though they are defined in HTML 3.2.

But you have a bigger problem if you target either
frames or new windows. You will be fighting against
what users want, and browser manufacturers are finally
giving them, complete control over their own browser
and desktop environment.
[color=blue]
> Or not?[/color]

My advice is, use the W3C to validate your HTML,
then test in the major browsers. Anything less
and you will end with 'another broken web-page'.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

[Berislav Lopac]

Re: Confusing W3C DOM with JavaScript

drhowarddrfined rhoward wrote:[color=blue]
> I am learning JavaScript along with the W3C DOM and web programming
> at the same time. Just when I thought I had the basics figured out I
> had a wrench thrown into my understanding.
>
> When you go to Netscapes JavaScript specs page, they list pages for
> versions
> 1.3 through 1.5. I sat down to read the client side information but
> it is labeled as "obsolete". But if I go to version 1.5 there is no
> information about client side programming. In particular, opening
> windows, navigator, etc.
>
> Now, if you look at the W3C DOM, I can't find anything there about
> opening windows(etc.). Opera's information talks about supporting
> "non-standard" functions such as "windows", etc. But this
> "non-standard" statement, coupled with Netscapes "obsolete" tag makes
> me think the ability to open other windows is part of the W3C DOM,
> which it is not.[/color]

Each browser has its own implementation of DOM, including the window object
as a part of it. Use these pages:

For Mozilla/Netscape: http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/
For MSIE:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/dhtml_reference_en

try.asp

Berislav

--
If the Internet is a Marx Brothers movie, and Web, e-mail, and IRC are
Groucho, Chico, and Harpo, then Usenet is Zeppo.

[Lasse Reichstein Nielsen]

Re: Confusing W3C DOM with JavaScript

"drhowarddrfine drhoward" <drhowarddrfine @sbcglobal.net> writes:
[color=blue]
> So...my beliefs now are that the W3C DOM should only be taken as
> manipulation of documents and their contents[/color]

Correct. "DOM", in that context stands, for *Document* Object Model,
and it is the object model of the document only.

However, "DOM" is also customarily used about the entire host
environment in the browser, including the functionality that was
originally in Netsacape 2 and 3, and has been kept for backwards
compatability, even though it is not part of any standard.

W3C has defined DOM versions 1, 2, and 3. You will often see the
traditional, non-W3C, functionality referred to as DOM 0.
[color=blue]
> while the "non-standard" instructions [windows.open()] can be used
> for windows controls along with their inherint cross-browser
> problems.[/color]

Indeed.

Much of it is pretty "de facto" standardized, but each browser also
has its own "<browser> DOM" (e.g., "The IE DOM") where again, "DOM" is
being used without a clear definition of what "D" stands for (although
it could be "Domain Object Model", that would actually make sense).

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lrn@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'