window.open(...) does not work

[Fred Oz]

Re: window.open(... ) does not work

> Typically, if a site thinks it *requires* a popup, its an indication[color=blue]
> of lack of knowledge on the part of the web-masters.[/color]

Not at all - what you are suggesting is that application developers
do away with dialog boxes. Pop-ups make sense in web applications for
many of the same reasons dialog boxes are used in normal applications

Consider a data entry application that makes extensive use of thesauri
or
controlled lists. Some are very long, so if you code them in the page,
you get really fat pages. It can be better to load them in a pop-up as
required - if the user doesn't use the long list, it's never loaded. It
also means the list can be re-used, moved, resized to suit if it needs
to
be used in various parts of the page.

Gotta admit, general web pages should try to avoid them though.


Fred.
replace smudge with au for email.

[Jim Ley]

Re: window.open(... ) does not work

On 14 Sep 2004 14:46:58 GMT, Fred Oz <ozfred@iinet.n et.smudge> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Not at all - what you are suggesting is that application developers
>do away with dialog boxes. Pop-ups make sense in web applications for
>many of the same reasons dialog boxes are used in normal applications[/color]

except popup boxes are nothing like dialogs, and competent web UI
developers can implement much better and more usual mechanisms to
achieve what you're describing.
[color=blue]
>controlled lists. Some are very long, so if you code them in the page,
>you get really fat pages. It can be better to load them in a pop-up as
>required - if the user doesn't use the long list, it's never loaded.[/color]

Same can be done in page of course... and without the overhead, risk
and complication of a popup.

Jim.

[Fred Oz]

Re: window.open(... ) does not work

In <41470564.23489 3759@news.indiv idual.net> Jim Ley wrote:
[color=blue]
> except popup boxes are nothing like dialogs,[/color]

How so? They are both UI elements that can be used for whatever, the
only
real diffrence is the language used to code them. That, of itself, does
not make pop-ups bad and dialogs good.
[color=blue]
> and competent web UI developers...[/color]

So anyone who uses pop-ups is therefore incompetent? The web is not the
sole use for web technologies. Clients may actually want a pop-up for a
particular reason - why tell them they can't have it for the sake of
idealism?
[color=blue]
> Same can be done in page of course... and without the overhead, risk
> and complication of a popup.[/color]

Any inteface feature may or may not work depending on the users'
environment. Consider web applications, not general web pages. In that
environment, you can ensure the user has a compatible browser and that
it
is correctly configured to make the features of your application work.


Cheers.

[Jim Ley]

Re: window.open(... ) does not work

On 14 Sep 2004 20:35:01 GMT, Fred Oz <ozfred@iinet.n et.smudge> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In <41470564.23489 3759@news.indiv idual.net> Jim Ley wrote:
>[color=green]
>> except popup boxes are nothing like dialogs,[/color]
>
>How so? They are both UI elements that can be used for whatever, the
>only real diffrence is the language used to code them. That, of itself,
>does not make pop-ups bad and dialogs good.[/color]

No, pop-up windows are first class citizens in the window manager,
dialogs rarely are - they're modal they're tied to the owner window
etc.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> and competent web UI developers...[/color]
>
>So anyone who uses pop-ups is therefore incompetent?[/color]

No, that is not a logical conclusion, all you can derive from the
statement is that people who cannot do it are not competent UI
developers.
[color=blue]
> The web is not the
>sole use for web technologies. Clients may actually want a pop-up for a
>particular reason - why tell them they can't have it for the sake of
>idealism?[/color]

It's nothing to do with idealism, it's the problems with pop-ups that
are the reason not to, explain it to your clients and they'll
understand, if not why are they employing an expert?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Same can be done in page of course... and without the overhead, risk
>> and complication of a popup.[/color]
>
>Any inteface feature may or may not work depending on the users'
>environment. Consider web applications, not general web pages. In that
>environment, you can ensure the user has a compatible browser and that
>it is correctly configured to make the features of your application work.[/color]

Oh right, you seem to have a lot different experience of deployment of
web applications than me, where (beyond it must be IE commonly)
playing with settings is all too common - you can't go getting Large
Institution Y to change their settings for you, not least 'cos if they
did, Web Application Vendor Z would have already picked a different
potentially incompatible set-up.

There's nothing about ideology that makes pop-ups a bad idea. There
are good reasons behind it.

Jim.