Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

[Richard Cornford]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

Brett Merkey wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> The problem is that not all browsers support try/catch.[/color]
>
> Serious commercial implementations assume the range of browser
> versions and configurations compatible with making a profit.[/color]

Profits are made by taking money off people, for which the requirements
are support for HTTP (preferably including secure), HTML and
specifically HTML forms. There aren't many web browsers that do not
facilitate that (or could be configured not to).
[color=blue]
> Assuming otherwise makes no sense.[/color]

In much the same way as taking action that will positively prevent some
potential customers from doing business does not make sense.
[color=blue]
> With that in mind, all browsers
> support try...catch.[/color]

That is wishful thinking. The sort of thought process that results in
developers reducing the potential for making profits for no better
reason than that they are not capable of doing any better (or even
perceiving that it is possible to do better).

But in the case of the proposed script try-catch does not help at all,
as many pop-up blocking techniques will not generate exceptions in the
script that attempts to open a window, while still not resulting in a
new window.

Richard.

[Richard Cornford]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

AM wrote:[color=blue]
> I don't know if you've already tried this, but if you haven't
> it might be worth a shot:
>
> function is_popup_blocke d() {
> var mypopup=window. open("","win1", 'width=10,heigh t=10');
> if (mypopup){
> mypopup.close() ;
> return false;
> }
> return true;
> }
>
> This is of course dependant on how the blocker works internally. I
> know this works with Google's basic popup blocker and IE, haven't
> tried with NIS, maybe you can.[/color]
<snip>

But it will not work in the case of Norton Internet Security, because it
inserts the script:-

var SymRealWinOpen = window.open;

function SymWinOpen(url, name, attributes)
{
return (new Object());
}

window.open = SymWinOpen;

- Which will return an Object from the - window.open - call, which will
pass the - if (mypopup) - test, and then error on the call to the -
close - method. Meaning the function will never return.

It also will not work with most external pop-up blocking software as
the - window.open - call will succeed and return a valid window
reference. The external pop-up blocker will probably not act until the
currently executing script has terminated (as the browser will probably
have the CPU tied up for the duration), then it will get a chance to
close the window (that is still usually so fast that the user never sees
the new window).

Richard.

[Richard Cornford]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

Reply Via Newsgroup wrote:
<snip>[color=blue]
> However... this makes the assumption that javascript is enabled
> (which, if you're createing an application then I would guess you are
> targetting folk who should have javascript enabled)...[/color]
<snip>

It is an odd piece of reasoning that a web application should be
expected to "target" users with javascript enabled. An Internet business
web application should be targeting the people who have enough money to
pay for the products or services offered, and there is no relationship
between having money and operating browsers with javascript enabled (or
any particular web browsers or computer hardware).

But a web application implies server-side scripting will be available,
and server-side scripting facilitates the guaranteeing what everything
can work for everyone regardless of client-side script support, browser
type or OS (even if it can be arranged to work better and quicker with
client-side scripting layered over a server-side fall-back). A
completely robust result can be achieved by implementing a robust
design. Introducing unnecessary dependencies would be a demonstration of
a skills shortfall on the part of the developer and not something that
is inherent to the system being created.

Richard.

[Lasse Reichstein Nielsen]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

am_ggh@hotmail. com (AM) writes:

Please don't top post.
[color=blue]
> I don't know if you've already tried this, but if you haven't it might
> be worth a shot:
>
> function is_popup_blocke d() {
> var mypopup=window. open("","win1", 'width=10,heigh t=10');
> if (mypopup){
> mypopup.close() ;
> return false;
> }
> return true;
> }
>
> This is of course dependant on how the blocker works internally.[/color]

Oh yeah! I have seen at least one popup blocker that worked by
changing window.open to
function(){ return window; }
That is, it returns the *current* window. Then you close it. Whoops :)

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lrn@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleD OM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'

[Brett Merkey]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

<<But in the case of the proposed script try-catch does not help at all,
as many pop-up blocking techniques will not generate exceptions in the
script that attempts to open a window, while still not resulting in a
new window.>>

Do you know concretely of any popup blockers which generate an
un-try-catch-able error? Haven't found one yet.

Brett

[Richard Cornford]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

Brett Merkey wrote:[color=blue]
> <<But in the case of the proposed script try-catch does not help at
> all, as many pop-up blocking techniques will not generate exceptions
> in the script that attempts to open a window, while still not
> resulting in a new window.>>
>
> Do you know concretely of any popup blockers which generate an
> un-try-catch-able error? Haven't found one yet.[/color]

You can't have been looking very hard then as external pop-up blockers
close additional browser windows from separate processes. They close new
windows at some unspecified (and unknowable) point after the window has
been created (usually shortly after). If the script has finished the
opening of the window, and exited the try-catch block in which it was
opened, when the window is closed, how is it going to generate an
exception?

But then a Proximatron filter inserting:-

(function(){
var o = window.open;
var onloadCount = 0;
var forDummys = function(){retu rn;};
var f = function(a,b,c) {
return new WindowDummy(a);
};
f.toString = function(){retu rn ''+o;};
function WindowDummy(url ){
this.self = this.window = this.parent =
this.frames = this.top = this;
this.opener = window;
this.open = window.open;
this.closed = false;
this.location = new LocationDummy(u rl);
this.document = new DocumentDummy(t his.location);
this.length = 0;
this.focus = forDummys;
this.close = function(){this .closed = true;};
this.navigator = window.navigato r;
}
function LocationDummy(u rl){
this.href = url;
this.toString = function(){retu rn this.href;};
this.refresh = this.replace = forDummys;
}
function DocumentDummy(l oc){
this.location = loc;
this.body = this.documentEl ement = {};
this.close = this.open = this.write = this.writeln = forDummys;
this.links = this.anchors = this.forms = this.images = [];
}
window.open = f;
})();

- would leave the window opening script hard pressed to generate an
error without also being to recklessly implemented for Internet use
anyway, as the window.open call will return an object with the features
and methods that would normally be expected of a new window reference.

Just because the current content-inserting/re-writing proxy based pop-up
blockers generally use crude and amateurish methods to replace the
window.open function does not mean that they all will, or that the ones
that currently do will continue to do so. In the pop-up blocking arms
race the pop-up blockers always have the advantage of being in a
position to bring bigger guns to bare because they are running locally
and can stuff as much additional script into a web page as they like
without significantly impacting on its download time, while the page
author faces an absolute upper limit if the result is to be a viable web
page.

Richard.

[Kien]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

People who force internet users to see their pop-ups should be shot!
The reason while I bought the pop-up killers is that pop-ups as rude
and pathetic as email spams.

I hope you and thugs like you will continue to fail.

Kien



"David McCulloch" <|@|.|> wrote in message news:<tqnec.652 13$z%1.36723@tw ister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...[color=blue]
> QUESTION-1:
> How can I detect if Norton Internet Security is blocking pop-ups?
>
> QUESTION-2a:
> How could I know if a particular JavaScript function has been declared?
>
> QUESTION-2b:
> How could I know if Window.Open has been redefined?
>
> BACKGROUND:
> NIS Pop-Up blocker inserts a JavaScript "SymWinOpen " function into a
> client's HTML and then sets window.open = SymWinOpen. If I could detect
> whether or not that "SymWinOpen " function name has been defined then I would
> know if Norton's Pop-Up blocker was active.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Dave[/color]

[David McCulloch]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking


"Kien" <caoxuankien@ho tmail.com> wrote in message
news:166d5d19.0 404121835.4814c 3cf@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> People who force internet users to see their pop-ups should be shot!
> The reason while I bought the pop-up killers is that pop-ups as rude
> and pathetic as email spams.
>
> I hope you and thugs like you will continue to fail.
>
> Kien[/color]

Kien,
If you are replying to me, I don't think you read my earlier messages.
You're safe. I am developing a service that actually makes GOOD use of
pop-ups (hard to believe that open.window could be used for anything other
than evil?). They aren't unsolicited and they aren't ads. Anyone who gets
them wants them actually has to request them. I wrote something for myself
a few years ago that I now want to make available to friends, family and
others in a more generic form.

Dave

[A. Nonymous]

Re: Detect Function or Pop-Up Blocking

Use DivLayers (i.e. <div>...</div>) as an alternative to pop-up windows.

Check out the posts on "Draggable Layers".

One of the posters created some pretty useful stuff!

"David McCulloch" <|@|.|> wrote in message
news:tqnec.6521 3$z%1.36723@twi ster.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> QUESTION-1:
> How can I detect if Norton Internet Security is blocking pop-ups?
>[/color]