beginner: Java or .NET?

[RAM]

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?
Thanks!
/RAM/

[John W. Kennedy]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

RAM wrote:

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?
Thanks!
/RAM/

"I'm offering you a chance to be on the side that's right. I don't know
which one will win."
-- C. S. Lewis: "That Hideous Strength"

--
John W. Kennedy

[Casey Hawthorne]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

RAM <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e:

>Hello,
>I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
>programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
>What is the future of Java?
>Thanks!
>/RAM/

Both are relatively new (just over 5 years) so it would be hard to
figure out the trend!

However, since you have a CPSC degree, can you not make the
intellectual distance between them and learn both?


Or do you have a BS?

Maybe you should go for an MS - More of the Same!

Or

Maybe you should go for a PhD - Piled Higher and Deeper!
--
Regards,
Casey

[CheeseToe]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:53:44 GMT, Casey Hawthorne
<caseyhHAMMER_T IME@istar.cawro te:

>RAM <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e:
>

>>Hello,
>>I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
>>programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
>>What is the future of Java?
>>Thanks!
>>/RAM/

>
>
>Both are relatively new (just over 5 years) so it would be hard to
>figure out the trend!

Java has been around a lot longer than 5 years. It's been strugglng
to overcome the stigma of not having lived up to the hype. Interesting
read here:

http://tinyurl.com/76fc5

The whole Sun / Java thing is now passe and I've noticed the downward
spiral has really picked up momentum in the last year or two.

..Net, while not truly cross platform, has some definitive performance
advantages, and the integration of .Net with Microsoft's other
products (SQL Server, Office etc) has made it a compelling
development platform. Some of their upcoming technologies will just
drive nails into the Java coffin a little bit faster and deeper.

[tony broughton]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

On 2006-07-20, RAM <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e:

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?
Thanks!
/RAM/

Don't bother becoming a programmer. All the work is being off-shored to
India and China, and western wage rates have been falling steadily for at
least the last five years. There is a glut of graduate and experienced
programmers on the job market (the "skills shortage" is a complete myth),
employers can pick and choose from the lastest graduates and will tell you
you're "too old" to work once you're over 35-40. So if you start work at,
say, 25, you've only got 10-15 years of work (if you're lucky) and then
unemployed at age 40. My advice is become a plumber, electrician, teacher,
car mechanic, something they can't offshore.

[Reaper]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:58:48 +0000 (UTC), tony broughton
<tonybDELETE_TH IS_SPAM_BLOCKER 17v@hotmail.com wrote:

>On 2006-07-20, RAM <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e:

>Hello,
>I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
>programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
>What is the future of Java?
>Thanks!
>/RAM/

>
>Don't bother becoming a programmer. All the work is being off-shored to
>India and China, and western wage rates have been falling steadily for at
>least the last five years. There is a glut of graduate and experienced
>programmers on the job market (the "skills shortage" is a complete myth),
>employers can pick and choose from the lastest graduates and will tell you
>you're "too old" to work once you're over 35-40. So if you start work at,
>say, 25, you've only got 10-15 years of work (if you're lucky) and then
>unemployed at age 40. My advice is become a plumber, electrician, teacher,
>car mechanic, something they can't offshore.

Sadly, the dude speaks the truth.

[Cyril Shelest]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

"RAM" <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e in message
news:6ekvb296k1 sp3c3nd6hl9p7c1 9flrleauh@4ax.c om...

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?
Thanks!
/RAM/

Hi,
I use both of them. And for developing Java applications that call JNI .NET
code I have designed JNI for .NET (see
http://www.codeproject.com/dotnet/Ja...TIntegrate.asp and
http://www.simtel.net/product.php[id]95126[SiteID]simtel.net).

[tabun@storm.ca]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

RAM wrote:

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?

Use a criterion function and specify your criteria to which to compare
everything.

Thanks!
/RAM/

A contemporary sample: take the killer application many users like for
torrent downloads. Get the sources for it in every language you can
think. Without reading the documentation for any of the languages, see
which one writes easier to understand code.
Azureus, Bittorrent, Bittornado, Limewire, snark, and try to find a
torrent program written in .Net that is free and open-source. Let me
know when you find one and if you find it easier to understand than
other sources. Let me know if you have source code complexity metrics
tools to support you in your discoveries too.

http://www.dotnetrocks.com/

is a stream dedicated to .NET.
It interesting to mention, for their downloads, they recommend Azureus
which is a bittorrent client written in Java. From what I understand
the source for Azureus can be compiled natively with java now. There
are many different java jvms, IDE's, and compilers.

GCC is an interesting alternative because everything compiles with gcc.
java/c/c++ and perhaps .NET if you consider mono as part of gcc.

Keep in mind in my experience the choice of language and tools usually
is not done by the programmer because YES WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT IS A
POLITICAL DECISION? It is up to your employers. My experience has led
me to learn different tools on the job at the employers' request.

Conclusion: just do whatever your boss wants with whatever language and
toolset he wants. You can anticipate it by asking what your potential
employer would like you to know. That said it is all for nought if he
doesn't hire you or changes his mind. In the meantime enjoy doing
outings with your family and friends.

[Pawel Stawicki]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

RAM wrote:

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?

Looks like both are competing quite well, since C# appeared java
development accelerated. I think both have future, just try both of them
and see which you like more.

Regards
Pawel Stawicki

[Angus]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

Hello

I am amazed by the lack of real pros and cons in this article. I am
interested in this same theme but I haven't learnt a thing from reading
these responses. It is particularly disturbing since I assumed this forum
would be extremely pro Java.

Come on surely there must be an intelligent Java programmer reading this who
can provide some useful input?



"Pawel Stawicki" <pawelstawick i@[cut_this_out]poczta.onet.plw rote in
message news:eceiag$9hu $1@news.onet.pl ...

RAM wrote:

Hello,
I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
What is the future of Java?

>
Looks like both are competing quite well, since C# appeared java
development accelerated. I think both have future, just try both of them
and see which you like more.
>
Regards
Pawel Stawicki

[GTR]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:39:00 +0100, "Angus" <nospam@gmail.c omwrote:

>Hello
>
>I am amazed by the lack of real pros and cons in this article. I am
>interested in this same theme but I haven't learnt a thing from reading
>these responses. It is particularly disturbing since I assumed this forum
>would be extremely pro Java.
>
>Come on surely there must be an intelligent Java programmer reading this who
>can provide some useful input?

What input are you looking for? It sounds like you just want to hear
good things about Java. There are Java magazines that will have lots
of pro-Java stuff.

This thread was about which was better for a beginner. The truth is
that .Net has made tremendous grounds since it's release, and has made
the choice between Java or Microsoft purely a preferential thing.

With Java you get "cross platform", with .Net you get "faster and
optimized for Windows". There is a time and place for each. Java is
a good choice for academic/school environments where the goal is to
focus on learning how operating systems work and such. It is also
good for mobile phone apps. .Net is good for rapidly putting together
websites or Windows apps. The thing I like about it is that it is
also quite scalable and fault tolerant on the upper end of mission
critical, highly available sites. So you do rapid development if you
want, just to get a working prototype out there, but you can also
develop meticiously and achieve a scalable solution that supports
thousands of concurrent users.

I did Java development for about 7 years, but kept an eye on .Net as
it emerged. For the time being I have switched to C# because the
tools are better, the end result is faster, and I do at times develop
rich-client apps where I want to utilize a lot of the latest and
greatest UI bells and whistles. The newest set of bells and whistles
that will be on everyone's desktop soon is Vista, and .Net gives you
an advantage toward utilizing these features of Vista.

On the same hardware, .Net is faster than Java on Windows or Java on
Linux. There used to be a case made for Java because some of the Unix
hardware was faster than what was available with Intel architecture.
However, the recent crop of Intel processors has changed all that, and
with quad-cores coming out next month, it makes an even stronger case
for .Net in my opinion.

[pwndjoox]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?


Try this:

http://snipurl.com/z6h1

[William Cai]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

tony broughton wrote:

On 2006-07-20, RAM <r_ahimsa_m@poc zta.onet.plwrot e:

>Hello,
>I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
>programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
>What is the future of Java?
>Thanks!
>/RAM/

>
Don't bother becoming a programmer. All the work is being off-shored to
India and China, and western wage rates have been falling steadily for at
least the last five years. There is a glut of graduate and experienced
programmers on the job market (the "skills shortage" is a complete myth),
employers can pick and choose from the lastest graduates and will tell you
you're "too old" to work once you're over 35-40. So if you start work at,
say, 25, you've only got 10-15 years of work (if you're lucky) and then
unemployed at age 40. My advice is become a plumber, electrician, teacher,
car mechanic, something they can't offshore.
>

BTW, the similar story happens in India and China as well. We don't grab
job offers from you guys, just... you know, the world becomes flat. :)

[Lew]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

tony broughton wrote:

>Don't bother becoming a programmer. All the work is being off-shored to
>India and China, and western wage rates have been falling steadily for at
>least the last five years. There is a glut of graduate and experienced
>programmers on the job market (the "skills shortage" is a complete myth),
>employers can pick and choose from the lastest graduates and will tell
>you you're "too old" to work once you're over 35-40. So if you start
>work at, say, 25, you've only got 10-15 years of work (if you're
>lucky) and then unemployed at age 40. My advice is become a plumber,
>electrician, teacher, car mechanic, something they can't offshore.

Doom and gloom!

The skills shortage is not a myth. I've seen it myself among people hired on
various programming teams. There are a lot of folks scamming employers into
thinking that they are programmers.

I am 50 and still very much in demand as a programmer. Trouble is, so many
projects are afflicted with a lack of seasoned staff that they are
floundering. There is a definite market for seasoned pros.

Of course, if you insist on not progressing in your career, and are pretty
much the same programmer at 40 or 50 or 60 that you were at 20 or 30, you are
going to have trouble competing as a programmer.

Most programmers leave the profession by the time they are 40, it appears.
They get "promoted" to management or make some lateral move that takes them
away from software development. Senior programmers have less competition at
that level than you might think.

Off-shore (not really a verb, but English is flexible that way) teams require
close management by the on-shore staff to be effective. That means that
domestic programmers have opportunities to work with companies that use
off-shore staff.

Programming is a necessary profession, like the oxygen tech on a space
station. Without IT society would not function any more. Without programmers
IT will not function. There will always be a demand for programmers until
software itself is obsolete.

You have to understand your market and position yourself properly, just like
in any other business.

- Lew

[ITMozart]

Re: beginner: Java or .NET?

I'm quite amazed too.

I'll give you my opinion. That's a very complex question.

The professional market requires knowledge of platforms, not languages,
so when you choose a language, you'll study its platform for your
professional work.

So, learning "many languages" is quite a myth, because after a couples
of years from start, when you'll have _real_ experience, you can't go
for both, because either you have experience on J2EE _and related
technology_ or you have experience on ASP.NET _and related technologies_.

Most of people telling they know many languages are "profession al
amateurs", which mediocre skills in the specific languages. They still
can work without any problem in the IT market, because high skills are
not a requirement.

So, I can say what I think of various platforms:

* Java: very mature and used platform. You're guaranteed to "survive"
for many years. But its presence is constantly decreasing.
Java is a very clean language, and I would suggest it to beginners.

* .NET: some IT fields seems like prefer this platform, for example when
you look for Oracle jobs, you very often find the couple Oracle + .NET,
and I don't know why. Its presence is constantly increasing. You're
guaranteed to "survive" for many years.
C# is a more complex and "powerful" language, but being more powerful,
it can be very misguiding.

Wandering in the IT companies, you can found real messes done in C++,
because of its "power".

How long will it take for .NET to reach Java diffusion? Who knows? Point
is: maybe another platform will outstand both.
It you're very into IT, I think Ruby in the future will do this, but
still before of this, there will be a reasonable number of well-paid
positions.

---

Eventually, I think the chose of Java or .NET is more or less the same.
I'd choose Java if i'd be more conservative, and .NET if I'd be more
"adventurou s".

Of course, if you learn and _really_ study Ruby, it would be very
interesting.

Bye,
im




Angus wrote:

Hello
>
I am amazed by the lack of real pros and cons in this article. I am
interested in this same theme but I haven't learnt a thing from reading
these responses. It is particularly disturbing since I assumed this forum
would be extremely pro Java.
>
Come on surely there must be an intelligent Java programmer reading this who
can provide some useful input?
>
>
>
"Pawel Stawicki" <pawelstawick i@[cut_this_out]poczta.onet.plw rote in
message news:eceiag$9hu $1@news.onet.pl ...

>RAM wrote:

>>Hello,
>>I graduated computer science faculty and decided to became a
>>programmer. Please help me to make a decision: Java or Microsoft .NET?
>>What is the future of Java?

>Looks like both are competing quite well, since C# appeared java
>development accelerated. I think both have future, just try both of them
>and see which you like more.
>>
>Regards
>Pawel Stawicki

>
>