So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

[Arun]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

Dude,

Notice the name of the "recruiter" . I'll bet its a Indian company
based in Florida for some local operations (read maintanence) or its
most probably a contracter.

In anycase you dont want to work for either.
I'm a Indian :-) and I've seen this sort of dungheap before.

I hear that Raytheon in CA and most defense contracters are hiring.
And ofcourse they'll hire only citizens. So look around! Why even IBM
says its gonna hire 5000 people in the US.

And yeah, Harvard/MIT/Yale/etc have reputations that'll open doors
anywhere in the world. But no degree will help if you can hire a
programmer for $500-800 a month half-way-across-the-globe. Not in this
economy.

[Arun]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

Dude,

Notice the name of the "recruiter" . I'll bet its a Indian company
based in Florida for some local operations (read maintanence) or its
most probably a contracter.

In anycase you dont want to work for either.
I'm a Indian :-) and I've seen this sort of dungheap before.

I hear that Raytheon in CA and most defense contracters are hiring.
And ofcourse they'll hire only citizens. So look around! Why even IBM
says its gonna hire 5000 people in the US.

And yeah, Harvard/MIT/Yale/etc have reputations that'll open doors
anywhere in the world. But no degree will help if you can hire a
programmer for $500-800 a month half-way-across-the-globe. Not in this
economy.

[Yoyoma_2]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

JavaJunkie wrote:
[color=blue]
> I do put the same hours and more, but if I get laid off because my position
> gets outsourced to India, then I'll have a hard time getting another job
> because I don't have a degree from Indian Institute of Technology.[/color]

The alternative is to go to Canada. Universities in Canada (and Texas
if I remember) offer a Software Engineering program that is pretty
unique. If your state sees it this way, with a Software Engineering
B.Eng, you are able to certify softwares like a civil engineer would
certify Buildings and Bridges.

Also Engineering, as opposed to comp sci, will give you a background in
many other fields(such as Electrical Engineering, Chemical Engineering,
Mechanical Engineering, Physics, Modern Physics).

But this is only if your state (i assume you are from the US) sees that
software engineers can become engineers.

I'me at a good program here in software engineering. Top 50 in north
america. Try http://www.lakeheadu.ca/~engwww/soft ...

The way i see it, if the softawre you work on is being outsourced to
india then it's not critical enough (Because companies like to have
legal repercussions if something goes wrong, and international lawsuits
are almost impossible to prosecute). Meaning that maby an engineering
degree is for you (especially if you want to live in texas or canada).
[color=blue]
>
>
> "Hacker Beware" <dumbass@hacker beware.com> wrote in message
> news:4013656f$0 $23954$af4e6cc9 @news.usenetgui de.com...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>As a programmer I guess I have no choice then to go to ITT, get a degree[/color]
>>
>>so
>>[color=darkred]
>>>an American company can hire me. Hey I may even change my name to an[/color]
>>
>>Indian
>>[color=darkred]
>>>sounding one so my resume get considered more.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>How about just putting in the hours and working like they do? :>
>>
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Yoyoma_2]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

JavaJunkie wrote:
[color=blue]
> I do put the same hours and more, but if I get laid off because my position
> gets outsourced to India, then I'll have a hard time getting another job
> because I don't have a degree from Indian Institute of Technology.[/color]

The alternative is to go to Canada. Universities in Canada (and Texas
if I remember) offer a Software Engineering program that is pretty
unique. If your state sees it this way, with a Software Engineering
B.Eng, you are able to certify softwares like a civil engineer would
certify Buildings and Bridges.

Also Engineering, as opposed to comp sci, will give you a background in
many other fields(such as Electrical Engineering, Chemical Engineering,
Mechanical Engineering, Physics, Modern Physics).

But this is only if your state (i assume you are from the US) sees that
software engineers can become engineers.

I'me at a good program here in software engineering. Top 50 in north
america. Try http://www.lakeheadu.ca/~engwww/soft ...

The way i see it, if the softawre you work on is being outsourced to
india then it's not critical enough (Because companies like to have
legal repercussions if something goes wrong, and international lawsuits
are almost impossible to prosecute). Meaning that maby an engineering
degree is for you (especially if you want to live in texas or canada).
[color=blue]
>
>
> "Hacker Beware" <dumbass@hacker beware.com> wrote in message
> news:4013656f$0 $23954$af4e6cc9 @news.usenetgui de.com...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>As a programmer I guess I have no choice then to go to ITT, get a degree[/color]
>>
>>so
>>[color=darkred]
>>>an American company can hire me. Hey I may even change my name to an[/color]
>>
>>Indian
>>[color=darkred]
>>>sounding one so my resume get considered more.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>How about just putting in the hours and working like they do? :>
>>
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Yoyoma_2]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

Yoyoma_2 wrote:

Oh I forgot to say. The link i sent you is for a university in Thunder
Bay (1.5 hours from Deluth MN. ) It's a small worker-type town so the
cost of living is dirt cheap.
1$ CAD = 0.76$ USD

For a citizen the tuition is 4800$ a year but for a non-citizen its 9000
$ but there are 1000$ return bursaries etc... (Uni's in canada are
heavily subsidised by the governments, that's why its cheaper).

But your things around this are cheaper too. I live in a 3-bedroom
townhouse which i rent for 700$/mo. Electricity is 100$ a month and gas
is around 120$ a month but it varies.

Because its a worker-type town, most of the things around town aren't
that expensive. Ex: A movie is 7$.

And also because its a simpler town, you won't be tempted as much to go
do things as you would living in another city, Thereby you can study
more :)

If you have work experience or any type of paper you could apply to get
into 4th year of engineering (out of a 5-year program). Poeple rarly do
it in 2 years though because a 7 engineering courses a semester load is
too heavy. But it's an idea.

For me it really helped with my mathematics and sciences. Since i was
basically in the same boat as you. What makes me so unique vs another
applicant? Well now at least i have the edge because i:

1) After i get my P.Eng, i can certify software. That's a huge selling
point for poeple who wnat to build software. Not necessarly that you
will certify, but that you can.

2) Gives a better background in math, sciences, thermodynamics,
electrical engineering, chemestry, physics, civil engineering,
mechanical engineering... That's something most Comp Sci graduates
don't have.

3) Because you have worked before, being a new grad in this brand-new
field with work experience gives you an edge over everyone else.
Lets say because the programs were made, ex, 7 years ago. That means
that the first poeple that graduated were done 2 years ago. And only
have 2 years of experience. Something to keep in mind.


[color=blue]
> JavaJunkie wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I do put the same hours and more, but if I get laid off because my
>> position
>> gets outsourced to India, then I'll have a hard time getting another job
>> because I don't have a degree from Indian Institute of Technology.[/color]
>
>
> The alternative is to go to Canada. Universities in Canada (and Texas
> if I remember) offer a Software Engineering program that is pretty
> unique. If your state sees it this way, with a Software Engineering
> B.Eng, you are able to certify softwares like a civil engineer would
> certify Buildings and Bridges.
>
> Also Engineering, as opposed to comp sci, will give you a background in
> many other fields(such as Electrical Engineering, Chemical Engineering,
> Mechanical Engineering, Physics, Modern Physics).
>
> But this is only if your state (i assume you are from the US) sees that
> software engineers can become engineers.
>
> I'me at a good program here in software engineering. Top 50 in north
> america. Try http://www.lakeheadu.ca/~engwww/soft ...
>
> The way i see it, if the softawre you work on is being outsourced to
> india then it's not critical enough (Because companies like to have
> legal repercussions if something goes wrong, and international lawsuits
> are almost impossible to prosecute). Meaning that maby an engineering
> degree is for you (especially if you want to live in texas or canada).
>[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "Hacker Beware" <dumbass@hacker beware.com> wrote in message
>> news:4013656f$0 $23954$af4e6cc9 @news.usenetgui de.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> As a programmer I guess I have no choice then to go to ITT, get a
>>>> degree
>>>
>>>
>>> so
>>>
>>>> an American company can hire me. Hey I may even change my name to an
>>>
>>>
>>> Indian
>>>
>>>> sounding one so my resume get considered more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about just putting in the hours and working like they do? :>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color][/color]

[Yoyoma_2]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

Yoyoma_2 wrote:

Oh I forgot to say. The link i sent you is for a university in Thunder
Bay (1.5 hours from Deluth MN. ) It's a small worker-type town so the
cost of living is dirt cheap.
1$ CAD = 0.76$ USD

For a citizen the tuition is 4800$ a year but for a non-citizen its 9000
$ but there are 1000$ return bursaries etc... (Uni's in canada are
heavily subsidised by the governments, that's why its cheaper).

But your things around this are cheaper too. I live in a 3-bedroom
townhouse which i rent for 700$/mo. Electricity is 100$ a month and gas
is around 120$ a month but it varies.

Because its a worker-type town, most of the things around town aren't
that expensive. Ex: A movie is 7$.

And also because its a simpler town, you won't be tempted as much to go
do things as you would living in another city, Thereby you can study
more :)

If you have work experience or any type of paper you could apply to get
into 4th year of engineering (out of a 5-year program). Poeple rarly do
it in 2 years though because a 7 engineering courses a semester load is
too heavy. But it's an idea.

For me it really helped with my mathematics and sciences. Since i was
basically in the same boat as you. What makes me so unique vs another
applicant? Well now at least i have the edge because i:

1) After i get my P.Eng, i can certify software. That's a huge selling
point for poeple who wnat to build software. Not necessarly that you
will certify, but that you can.

2) Gives a better background in math, sciences, thermodynamics,
electrical engineering, chemestry, physics, civil engineering,
mechanical engineering... That's something most Comp Sci graduates
don't have.

3) Because you have worked before, being a new grad in this brand-new
field with work experience gives you an edge over everyone else.
Lets say because the programs were made, ex, 7 years ago. That means
that the first poeple that graduated were done 2 years ago. And only
have 2 years of experience. Something to keep in mind.


[color=blue]
> JavaJunkie wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I do put the same hours and more, but if I get laid off because my
>> position
>> gets outsourced to India, then I'll have a hard time getting another job
>> because I don't have a degree from Indian Institute of Technology.[/color]
>
>
> The alternative is to go to Canada. Universities in Canada (and Texas
> if I remember) offer a Software Engineering program that is pretty
> unique. If your state sees it this way, with a Software Engineering
> B.Eng, you are able to certify softwares like a civil engineer would
> certify Buildings and Bridges.
>
> Also Engineering, as opposed to comp sci, will give you a background in
> many other fields(such as Electrical Engineering, Chemical Engineering,
> Mechanical Engineering, Physics, Modern Physics).
>
> But this is only if your state (i assume you are from the US) sees that
> software engineers can become engineers.
>
> I'me at a good program here in software engineering. Top 50 in north
> america. Try http://www.lakeheadu.ca/~engwww/soft ...
>
> The way i see it, if the softawre you work on is being outsourced to
> india then it's not critical enough (Because companies like to have
> legal repercussions if something goes wrong, and international lawsuits
> are almost impossible to prosecute). Meaning that maby an engineering
> degree is for you (especially if you want to live in texas or canada).
>[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "Hacker Beware" <dumbass@hacker beware.com> wrote in message
>> news:4013656f$0 $23954$af4e6cc9 @news.usenetgui de.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> As a programmer I guess I have no choice then to go to ITT, get a
>>>> degree
>>>
>>>
>>> so
>>>
>>>> an American company can hire me. Hey I may even change my name to an
>>>
>>>
>>> Indian
>>>
>>>> sounding one so my resume get considered more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about just putting in the hours and working like they do? :>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color][/color]

[Eric Sosman]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?

JavaJunkie wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Let me tell you something. I live in Florida and when I see people picking
> oranges and strawberries, I notice they are all exclusively Central-American
> immigrants (Mexicans etc).[/color]

When I hired programmers (I'm not doing so in my current
position), I looked principally for evidence of technical ability,
expertise, talent, and problem-solving capacity. But I also took
into account secondary matters, like a well-stocked fund of general
miscellaneous knowledge. While it was unlikely that anyone's
enthusiasm for bird-watching, say, or Glück operas would markedly
affect his or her success in the endeavors at hand, I always thought
it a danger sign if the candidate was over-absorbed in what is,
after all, a limited specialization. Sherlock Holmes affected
ignorance as to whether the Earth orbited the Sun or vice versa,
because the answer had no bearing on his work. IMHO (and when I'm
the interviewer, MHO counts for a lot), this would have amounted
to a strong suggestion that S.H. would make a lousy programmer.

Therefore, JavaJunkie, I suggest you consult a map. You will
discover that Mexico is in North America -- indeed, you will learn
that all parts of your state of Florida are more southerly than
some parts of Mexico. Who knows? Someday I might find myself
hiring programmers again, and if we run into each other I'm sure
to be impressed by your grasp of geography.

Once again: Mexico is not in Central America. You were
probably thinking of New Zealand ;-)

--
Eric.Sosman@sun .com

[JavaJunkie]

Re: So I guess MIT is not good enough anymore?



Eric Sosman,

You are correct. Mexico is not part of Central America. Something I never
realized until today as I assumed the boundaries to start in Mexico and end
in Panama.

What you may not know is that I indeeed do have a very good grasp of
geography. I happen to be a licensed amateur radio operator who has spoken
to other ham radio stations in over 150 countries. That forces me to have a
map on the wall and even own a great software called DXAtlas
(http://www.dxatlas.com) that allows me to have a 3D view of the globe on my
PC.

But I slipped when I included Mexico in my comments, showing (apparently)
that I'm a dumbass by not knowing this about Central America.


"Eric Sosman" <Eric.Sosman@su n.com> wrote in message
news:40200BF6.B B487027@sun.com ...
JavaJunkie wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Let me tell you something. I live in Florida and when I see people picking
> oranges and strawberries, I notice they are all exclusively[/color]
Central-American[color=blue]
> immigrants (Mexicans etc).[/color]

When I hired programmers (I'm not doing so in my current
position), I looked principally for evidence of technical ability,
expertise, talent, and problem-solving capacity. But I also took
into account secondary matters, like a well-stocked fund of general
miscellaneous knowledge. While it was unlikely that anyone's
enthusiasm for bird-watching, say, or Glück operas would markedly
affect his or her success in the endeavors at hand, I always thought
it a danger sign if the candidate was over-absorbed in what is,
after all, a limited specialization. Sherlock Holmes affected
ignorance as to whether the Earth orbited the Sun or vice versa,
because the answer had no bearing on his work. IMHO (and when I'm
the interviewer, MHO counts for a lot), this would have amounted
to a strong suggestion that S.H. would make a lousy programmer.

Therefore, JavaJunkie, I suggest you consult a map. You will
discover that Mexico is in North America -- indeed, you will learn
that all parts of your state of Florida are more southerly than
some parts of Mexico. Who knows? Someday I might find myself
hiring programmers again, and if we run into each other I'm sure
to be impressed by your grasp of geography.

Once again: Mexico is not in Central America. You were
probably thinking of New Zealand ;-)

--
Eric.Sosman@sun .com