CSS is BAD - my survey

[Mason A. Clark]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:20:17 +0100, PhilG <phil@aplusdesi gn.co.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=green]
>> Since I have your attention, in all fairness, my web site is:
>>
>> http://masonc.home.netcom.com/index.html
>>
>> I just today got it all in the same format (with some
>> exceptional pages).[/color]
>
>Which contains CSS
>[color=green]
>>
>> Mason C criticisms more than welcome[/color][/color]

Is that a criticism?

By the way, here's a page I just saw that illustrates my scolding:

http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.uk/accounts/kinross.htm

In Opera, and with a little more effort in Firefox, the page can be
made *more readable* by turning off CSS and zooming. The
Print Review is another way to view pages, but why use yellow ink?

I, for one, do not like to read much on the screen. Bad readability
design is one reason. Why was the web invented? Art or communication?

Mason C

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=blue]
> By the way, here's a page I just saw that illustrates my scolding:
>
> http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.u...ts/kinross.htm
>
> In Opera, and with a little more effort in Firefox, the page can be
> made *more readable* by turning off CSS and zooming. The Print
> Review is another way to view pages, but why use yellow ink?[/color]

Poor example. Except for an a:hover, there _is_no_ CSS in that page.
Doesn't make a bit of difference if you turn it on of off. Bad code, too.
[color=blue]
> I, for one, do not like to read much on the screen.[/color]

Seek out image and photo sites?
[color=blue]
> Bad readability design is one reason. Why was the web invented?
> Art or communication?[/color]

Both.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

[logic_earth]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Mason A. Clark

If you hate CSS so much then don't use it.

[Mason A. Clark]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:11:02 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.mous@ex ample.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mason A. Clark wrote:[color=green]
>> By the way, here's a page I just saw that illustrates my scolding:
>>
>> http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.u...ts/kinross.htm
>>
>> In Opera, and with a little more effort in Firefox, the page can be
>> made *more readable* by turning off CSS and zooming. The Print
>> Review is another way to view pages, but why use yellow ink?[/color]
>
>Poor example. Except for an a:hover, there _is_no_ CSS in that page.
>Doesn't make a bit of difference if you turn it on of off. Bad code, too.
>[color=green]
>> I, for one, do not like to read much on the screen.[/color]
>
>Seek out image and photo sites?[/color]

No. If long, print it for reading ( print styling is important ! ). But even
for short text the ancient Egyptian invention by Gutenberg is best: black on
white. Pink on violet is inferior -- but *art*.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> Bad readability design is one reason. Why was the web invented?
>> Art or communication?[/color]
>
>Both.[/color]
*invented* ?

[Mason A. Clark]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On 25 Jun 2005 12:50:37 -0700, Stan McCann <me@stanmccann. us> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mason A. Clark <masoncERASETHI S@ix.netcom.com > wrote in
>news:jo9qb15mf 3g1ta2crsijrm6n k10rusmhj3@4ax. com:
>[color=green]
>> http://masonc.home.netcom.com/index.html[/color]
>
>Not as bad as I expected from reading your ideas that started this
>thread. I would dump the table in favor of CSS though. But what you
>have seems to work ok visually; probably not as well audibly.[/color]

Thank you very much for your extensive comments. I will print
them and work on them. ( But no promise to abandon tables.)

The *audible* is unknown to me so I need to work on that.

Thanks again,

Mason Clark

[Jam-Pa]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Mason A. Clark <masoncERASETHI S@ix.netcom.com > wrote in
news:oo7mb150uu fqb80pnblba5lri e2218516u@4ax.c om:

The REAL conclusion - Mason and Many others SUCK at coding CSS.

Lol what a n00bie.. Hey, even if you cant handle it doesn't mean it isn't
any good..

[Mason A. Clark]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:13:21 +0000 (UTC), "Jam-Pa" <non_anonanon@a non-non.org>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mason A. Clark <masoncERASETHI S@ix.netcom.com > wrote in
>news:oo7mb150u ufqb80pnblba5lr ie2218516u@4ax. com:
>
>The REAL conclusion - Mason and Many others SUCK at coding CSS.
>
>Lol what a n00bie.. Hey, even if you cant handle it doesn't mean it isn't
>any good..[/color]

Anyone posting thus is *obligated* to include a url to *their* work.

Mason C http://masonc.home.netcom.com

[Felix Miata]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On 05/06/25 05:45 Mason A. Clark apparently typed:
[color=blue]
> Since I have your attention, in all fairness, my web site is:[/color]
[color=blue]
> http://masonc.home.netcom.com/index.html[/color]
[color=blue]
> I just today got it all in the same format (with some
> exceptional pages).[/color]
[color=blue]
> Mason C criticisms more than welcome[/color]

"Scattergun " comes to mind, but the strangest looking thing is starting
paragraphs with links using physically smaller text than the subsequent
text. .titleText { FONT: 100%... does a lousy job of making titles look like
titles. .emText { FONT: 100% Arial... makes little sense either, since it
looks little or no different from ordinary paragraph text. Title text really
should be marked up as a title, leaving styling via CSS unnecessary in most
cases. This all makes the page remind me of a n00b using Homesite or
Frontpage rather than hand tooled HTML & CSS.

Pay a visit to
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/F...mplesExtS.html and
think about what you see there before creating any new font-family styling.
--
"Love does not demand its own way." 1 Corinthians 13:5

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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[Mason A. Clark]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:20:26 -0400, Felix Miata <UgaddaBkidding .due2UCE@dev.nu l>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Scattergun " comes to mind, but the strangest looking thing is starting
>paragraphs with links using physically smaller text than the subsequent[/color]

Felix

Thanks for the comments. Every one helps. Trolling *works* :-)
I'll work on it.


P.S. Whoa.... wait a moment. You must be commenting on the
css file. I did not use titleText and used emText once in future.html
which is not posted and is not yet edited. ( I did just now delete them.)

My css file has lots of stuff accumulated during development.

I'll clean out the css file some day but I have 30 or so complex
pages to check for usage and better things to do.

I cannot relate your comments, well-intended I'm sure, to my
..html pages. It is the html pages that the viewer sees.

Mason C Trolls catch strange things sometimes :-)

[Spartanicus]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Felix Miata <UgaddaBkidding .due2UCE@dev.nu l> wrote:
[color=blue]
>This all makes the page remind me of a n00b using Homesite or
>Frontpage rather than hand tooled HTML & CSS.[/color]

Homesite is a code editor, older versions on older MS OSs briefly had a
function that allowed a rudimentary form of WYSIWYG editing that relied
on an MS DLL, used in that mode it produced crap code.

This feature was heavily criticised by most Homesite users, it's no
longer part of the later versions, it's no longer supported on later MS
OSs, and on older versions the "feature" can and is disabled by most
users.

Bracketing Homesite with Frontpage is a fallacy.

--
Spartanicus

[Jam-Pa]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Mason A. Clark <masoncERASETHI S@ix.netcom.com > wrote in
news:8ro0c1tkqo djcdb3o5n0vsq52 fptlcv8gd@4ax.c om:
[color=blue]
> http://masonc.home.netcom.com[/color]

W3C CSS Validator Results for http://masonc.home.netcom.com/

To work as intended, your CSS style sheet needs a correct document parse
tree. This means you should use valid HTML.
Errors
URI : http://masonc.home.netcom.com/1main1.css

* Line: 4 Context : #sideBar

Parse Error - [empty string]
* Line: 11 Context : #topBar

expression("abs olute") is not a position value : expression
("absolute")
* Line: 12 Context : #topBar

Parse Error - document.body.s crollTop +0))
* Line: 90 Context : BODY

Parse Error - [empty string]
* Line: 90 Context : BODY

Parse Error - [empty string]
* Line: 91 Context : BODY

Parse Error - [empty string]

[Felix Miata]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On 05/06/29 03:08 Spartanicus apparently typed:
[color=blue]
> Bracketing Homesite with Frontpage is a fallacy.[/color]

Do you mean FP is capable of producing standards-compliant HTML?

http://tinyurl.com/8xtkj

--
"If you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline them."
Proverbs 13:24

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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[Spartanicus]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Felix Miata <UgaddaBkidding .due2UCE@dev.nu l> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Bracketing Homesite with Frontpage is a fallacy.[/color]
>
>Do you mean FP is capable of producing standards-compliant HTML?[/color]

If you want to make a statement do so. If this was an attempt at irony,
it didn't work.
[color=blue]
>http://tinyurl.com/8xtkj[/color]

I don't follow obfuscated urls.

--
Spartanicus

[petermichaux@yahoo.com]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

Have you seen what can be done by separating content and presentation?

http://www.csszengarden.com

The separation sure makes it easy for the content author and graphic
designer to do their jobs separately.

Also you aren't the only one who misses some of the things that tables
make easy. It's just that the tables have to be implemented in the css
file. Maybe in a few years tables will make a comeback in the form of
css. Look at this

http://garyblue.port5.com/webdev/3col-modern.html

-Peter

[Felix Miata]

Re: CSS is BAD - my survey

On 05/07/03 03:21 Spartanicus apparently typed:
[color=blue]
> Felix Miata <UgaddaBkidding .due2UCE@dev.nu l> wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Bracketing Homesite with Frontpage is a fallacy.[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>>Do you mean FP is capable of producing standards-compliant HTML?[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> If you want to make a statement do so. If this was an attempt at irony,
> it didn't work.[/color]

No irony. FP is garbageware.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>http://tinyurl.com/8xtkj[/color]
>
> I don't follow obfuscated urls.[/color]

Hehe. You think the original is better? :-)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Tech+Evangelism&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=frontpage&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

--
"If you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline them."
Proverbs 13:24

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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