No future for DB2

[Matt Emmerton]

Re: No future for DB2

Agreed. PROGRESS is what, 1% of the market these days? Hardly a contender
among the "big three".

Strange -- yet another automobile analogy -- GM/Ford/DaimlerChrysler ,
Honda/Toyota/Nissan, BMW/Mercedes/Audi, etc.
Stranger -- I just realized I'm wearing a Progress ASPEN 2000 T-shirt.

--
Matt

"Larry" <larry@nospam.n et> wrote in message
news:j%aKe.2527 7$sf6.6155@fe08 .lga...[color=blue]
> Well ... that's fair enough. Very fair. I just don't consider Oracle,
> SQL Server, or DB2 in that category.
>
> Larry E.
>
> rkusenet wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > "Larry" <larry@nospam.n et> wrote in message
> > news:aV9Ke.2516 6$sf6.16572@fe0 8.lga...
> >[color=darkred]
> >> You're "analogy" doesn't really work ... when was the last time you
> >> went shopping for a car where
> >> Sorry ... you can keep coming back to challenge if you want. Go talk
> >> to Gartner or one of the big consulting firms and ask them if DB2 is a
> >> good investment as a rdmbs ... and whether they think IBM will be
> >> around for awhile to support it.[/color]
> >
> >
> > My analogy was not talking about DB2 in particular. I was talking about
> > general principles followed when going for a RDBMS.
> > I have been to situations when the customer told us to make our product
> > work with
> > SQL Server bcos they enterprise standard is oracle/sql server and not
> > informix.
> >
> > A friend of mine works in PROGRESS technology and he too is saying that
> > many customers tell them to make their product work with SQL Server or
> > Oracle. His company is going to release their next version with O and[/color][/color]
SS.[color=blue][color=green]
> > So I guess it will be a question of time before they kiss goodbye to
> > Progress.
> >
> > You don't think market share has anything to do with it.
> >
> >
> >[/color][/color]

[pobox002@bebub.com]

Re: No future for DB2

bka wrote:
[color=blue]
> http://www.it-analysis.com/article.p...2b6519e68f558d[/color]

http://www.ibm.com/search/?en=utf&v=14&lang=en&cc=us&lv=c&q=bloor&x=10&y=10

[Jurgen Haan]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

DA Morgan wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> That was, I thought, my point. Interviews I have conducted indicate that
> people 90+% of the time prefer that which they know the most because
> they have learned the workarounds and can overlook the warts.
>[/color]

I have used windows a very long time, but now, I'm using linux and
MacOSX. I detest windows(, not Microsoft, but windows). Still, I used it
a lot and still prefer linux and even MacOSX (which is faaaar less in
usage time than windows) over windows. And trust me, you'll need some
workarounds for windows. So this theory of usage vs. preferation is
bullocks in my opinion.

Stil, admitted, if you use something, and are not aware of the
alternatives, you'd most likely prefer what you're using at that moment.

-R-

[Frank van Bortel]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

DA Morgan wrote:[color=blue]
>
> That was, I thought, my point. Interviews I have conducted indicate that
> people 90+% of the time prefer that which they know the most because
> they have learned the workarounds and can overlook the warts.
>
> Of course the still doesn't mean I don't have a wire or a screw loose. ;-)[/color]

No it doesn't. :)

I finally got your point - took me three more times to read the original
replay, though - maybe my English screw was in metric?
--
Regards,
Frank van Bortel

[joel-garry@home.com]

Re: Excellent future for DB2


Captain Pedantic wrote:[color=blue]
> "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug .org> wrote in message
> news:1123597724 .916135@yasure. ..[color=green]
> >
> > Finally a bit of honesty surfaces in this thread. I think it would
> > be fascinating to hear from anyone that can honestly say I have far
> > more experience with product A than B but prefer B.[/color]
>
> I have far more experience with ugly women than attractive ones. But I
> prefer attractive ones.[/color]

If you put lipstick on a pig, you have a pig wearing lipstick.

But if you get drunk enough, va-va-VOOM! Just ask Kermit.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
I've heard of dated mainframes, but that would be ridiculous.

[Captain Pedantic]

Re: Excellent future for DB2 - er, a little off-topic all of a sudden

<joel-garry@home.com> wrote in message
news:1123697971 .187506.56370@g 44g2000cwa.goog legroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Captain Pedantic wrote:[color=green]
>> "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug .org> wrote in message
>> news:1123597724 .916135@yasure. ..[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Finally a bit of honesty surfaces in this thread. I think it would
>> > be fascinating to hear from anyone that can honestly say I have far
>> > more experience with product A than B but prefer B.[/color]
>>
>> I have far more experience with ugly women than attractive ones. But I
>> prefer attractive ones.[/color]
>
> If you put lipstick on a pig, you have a pig wearing lipstick.
>
> But if you get drunk enough, va-va-VOOM! Just ask Kermit[/color]

Indeed!

Q. What's the difference between a dog and a fox?

A. About 5 pints.

[Sybrand Bakker]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

On 10 Aug 2005 11:19:31 -0700, joel-garry@home.com wrote:
[color=blue]
>But if you get drunk enough, va-va-VOOM[/color]

Who gets drunk? The pig or the frog?


--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA

[Bob Jones]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

> While I can understand where you are coming from when you say many people[color=blue]
> feel that mainframes are "dated", that doesn't drive the rdbms business.[/color]

I do feel sorry if this is how my message was interpretated.
[color=blue]
>Perception of value and of the most suitable platform to run a database on
>is what drives customer investment. Many customers to this day still feel
>that the mainframe is the best place for apps that require the ultimate in
>security, availability, reliability, and performance. That is the reason
>that we still see growth on mainframe platforms.
>[/color]

I agree it is just perceptions. Mainframe being the only place to get RAS is
one of them. Funny you talked about performance. The cost/performance
picture is not exactly pretty on mainframe, when compared to x86 or RISC
platforms. Yes, there is growth in mainframe. In fact, there is growth in
virtually all platforms. The unit sales per year for mainframe is measured
in thousands, while other major server platforms are measured in millions.

[JohnO]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

I have far more experience with Oracle (10 years) than DB2. Having used
DB2 for 2 years I have now come to the feeling that DB2 is easier to
use than Oracle. However this is DB2 on OS400 on iSeries. I suspect DB2
on some other platform would be about equal with Oracle for ease of use.

[Anton Versteeg]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

Bob Jones wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>>While I can understand where you are coming from when you say many people
>>feel that mainframes are "dated", that doesn't drive the rdbms business.[/color]
>
>
> I do feel sorry if this is how my message was interpretated.
>
>[color=green]
>>Perception of value and of the most suitable platform to run a database on
>>is what drives customer investment. Many customers to this day still feel
>>that the mainframe is the best place for apps that require the ultimate in
>>security, availability, reliability, and performance. That is the reason
>>that we still see growth on mainframe platforms.
>>[/color]
>
>
> I agree it is just perceptions. Mainframe being the only place to get RAS is
> one of them. Funny you talked about performance. The cost/performance
> picture is not exactly pretty on mainframe, when compared to x86 or RISC
> platforms. Yes, there is growth in mainframe. In fact, there is growth in
> virtually all platforms. The unit sales per year for mainframe is measured
> in thousands, while other major server platforms are measured in millions.
>
>[/color]
Bob,
Again you are very vague here.
cost/performance of what?
I have seen figures that mips , all included (labor, number of users
supported) are cheaper on a MF than on a PC.
Seriously, are your going to tell a large bank or insurance company,
that they should swap a mainframe for let's say 10.000 PC's?
OK, I agree it would be very good for companies selling IT services and
PC software.

--
Anton Versteeg
IBM Netherlands

[Knut Stolze]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

Anton Versteeg wrote:
[color=blue]
> cost/performance of what?
> I have seen figures that mips , all included (labor, number of users
> supported) are cheaper on a MF than on a PC.
> Seriously, are your going to tell a large bank or insurance company,
> that they should swap a mainframe for let's say 10.000 PC's?
> OK, I agree it would be very good for companies selling IT services and
> PC software.[/color]

Don't forget the rollerblade companies who can sell their stuff to the folks
that have to maintain the hardware and replace broken devices. ;-)

--
Knut Stolze
Information Integration Development
IBM Germany / University of Jena

[Jurgen Haan]

Re: OS Databases

Jurgen Haan wrote:[color=blue]
> I DO think you're underestimating both growth rate and capabilities of
> the OS databases. I honestly think those databases will gain a lot of
> marketshare in a very short time. We're using DB2 atm for our ASP
> service, but it's mainly because of the reputation and the lack of
> practice information concerning OS databases. We're not willing to take
> the risk of using an OS database that *might* not be up to the task.
> But a database like postgres might aswell be able to do the things we
> need. It *has* the capabilities we need; SQL, backup/restore, stored
> procedures, ODBC connectivity, schema's, tablespaces, ACID, and so on...
> The are a few things that are unclear: TPS and stability. The biggest
> things lacking for OS databases are not very technical, these are
> reputation (DB2/Oracle/Informix/Sybase etc. are proven technology and
> built a certain reputation over the years) and support (still
> notoriously little support for OS databases).
> I see a lot of young companies around me, and they all consider OS
> databases first. Only if an OS database doesn't fit, then and only then
> will they consider an expensive commercial database.
>[/color]

Hmz.. And now this...
A boosted Postgres DB suited for OLTP and 24/7 support.

http://www.enterprisedb.com/

-R-

[Larry]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

Let me tell you something. Customers just don't carelessly spend money
to the point where they are willing to waste it. Most of the time, they
do a very thorough ongoing analysis of the costs and feasibility of
different platforms for their applications ... it is not a simple matter
of perceptions. If the mainframe didn't have a compelling value
statement and compelling financial benefits, IBM wouldn't still be
selling so many of them and DB2 wouldn't still be growing on that platform.

Larry E.

Bob Jones wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>>While I can understand where you are coming from when you say many people
>>feel that mainframes are "dated", that doesn't drive the rdbms business.[/color]
>
>
> I do feel sorry if this is how my message was interpretated.
>
>[color=green]
>>Perception of value and of the most suitable platform to run a database on
>>is what drives customer investment. Many customers to this day still feel
>>that the mainframe is the best place for apps that require the ultimate in
>>security, availability, reliability, and performance. That is the reason
>>that we still see growth on mainframe platforms.
>>[/color]
>
>
> I agree it is just perceptions. Mainframe being the only place to get RAS is
> one of them. Funny you talked about performance. The cost/performance
> picture is not exactly pretty on mainframe, when compared to x86 or RISC
> platforms. Yes, there is growth in mainframe. In fact, there is growth in
> virtually all platforms. The unit sales per year for mainframe is measured
> in thousands, while other major server platforms are measured in millions.
>
>[/color]

[Bob Jones]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

>>>While I can understand where you are coming from when you say many people[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>feel that mainframes are "dated", that doesn't drive the rdbms business.[/color]
>>
>>
>> I do feel sorry if this is how my message was interpretated.
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Perception of value and of the most suitable platform to run a database
>>>on is what drives customer investment. Many customers to this day still
>>>feel that the mainframe is the best place for apps that require the
>>>ultimate in security, availability, reliability, and performance. That is
>>>the reason that we still see growth on mainframe platforms.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>
>> I agree it is just perceptions. Mainframe being the only place to get RAS
>> is one of them. Funny you talked about performance. The cost/performance
>> picture is not exactly pretty on mainframe, when compared to x86 or RISC
>> platforms. Yes, there is growth in mainframe. In fact, there is growth in
>> virtually all platforms. The unit sales per year for mainframe is
>> measured in thousands, while other major server platforms are measured in
>> millions.
>>
>>[/color]
> Bob,
> Again you are very vague here.
> cost/performance of what?[/color]

Do I really need to spell everything out? Cost/performance of mainframe
systems.
[color=blue]
> I have seen figures that mips , all included (labor, number of users
> supported) are cheaper on a MF than on a PC.[/color]

This is a joke, right?
[color=blue]
> Seriously, are your going to tell a large bank or insurance company, that
> they should swap a mainframe for let's say 10.000 PC's?
> OK, I agree it would be very good for companies selling IT services and PC
> software.
>[/color]

Again, I feel sorry about the way my message was interpretated. Maybe my
message was not vague, rather it was not read with an objective mind-set.

[Bob Jones]

Re: Excellent future for DB2

[color=blue][color=green]
>> cost/performance of what?
>> I have seen figures that mips , all included (labor, number of users
>> supported) are cheaper on a MF than on a PC.
>> Seriously, are your going to tell a large bank or insurance company,
>> that they should swap a mainframe for let's say 10.000 PC's?
>> OK, I agree it would be very good for companies selling IT services and
>> PC software.[/color]
>
> Don't forget the rollerblade companies who can sell their stuff to the
> folks
> that have to maintain the hardware and replace broken devices. ;-)
>
> --
> Knut Stolze
> Information Integration Development
> IBM Germany / University of Jena[/color]

Do we have a bunch of high school kids working at IBM? It sure sounds like
it.