PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released

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  • Nonsense

    #16
    Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released

    SPAM
    has been
    typically identified
    the world over as unsolicited
    marketing messages of typically
    commercial products of one form or
    another, in email, and of course newsgroups.
    But announcements about open source projects with
    their latest release can hardly be called "SPAM" when
    it's an announcement to people that would most likely be
    interested in it. Of course people like you who don't know
    what it is shoot off your posts of poop and denounce a perfectly
    legitimate post. This is why you and others were properly defined
    as internet turds, clogging up the newsgroup with your poop,
    creating even more traffic than the original announcement.
    Instead of thanking the person that made the announcement
    we saw mans' inhumanity to man once again, the typical
    unimaginative poop coming in all upset about messages
    that offended you without thinking about how it
    might have been a benefit. You and a lot of
    people actually think you have a god-given
    right to have email and newsgroups. By
    the way most of the newsgroups in this
    thread have plenty of useless chat in
    many of the threads having nothing
    to do with anything other than
    silly banter. Poop away with
    more poop!

    "Ed prochak" <ed.prochak@mag icinterface.com > wrote in message news:4b5394b2.0 402241402.5fb8c 186@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
    > Hmm. you seem to claim some knowledge about Newsgroups, and decry the
    > ignorance of others. You claim groups are open yet you post with a
    > dummy email address. But it is you that has no real understanding.
    >
    > Newsgroups are not CHAT ROOMS where any topic is allowed. The
    > similarity to chat rooms is that newsgroups tend to have unique
    > cultures. And if you know anything about newgroups, you know that you
    > should read a group for a time to get an idea of what is appropriate
    > and what ISN'T appropriate. These meta-topic discussions serve to show
    > the culture of the group (often showing that it is not monolithic
    > too!).
    >
    > News groups are named to at least SUGGEST their purpose. Hence there
    > exists both a
    > comp.database.o racle.misc
    > and a
    > comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace
    > And topics seldom cross group boundaries. The advert that triggered
    > this thread belongs in the marketplace group and at the very least is
    > OFF TOPIC in the .misc group.
    >
    > Newsgroups have Charters that describe the topic area. So if you have
    > any doubt, do a little homework and find out for yourself what belongs
    > and doesn't belong in this group.
    >
    >
    > Now a weed is just a flower that's in the wrong place
    > and newsgroup SPAM is a posting in the wrong place.
    > Some of us like to be neat, putting things in their proper place.
    > You apparently prefer things to be sloppy.
    > (Sloppy desks might be okay but not sloppy code or newsgroup
    > postings.)
    >
    > If you wish to read about new products for ORACLE, then subscribe to
    > the marketplace group. Then when the PEAR posting does appear there
    > properly, we can both be happy.
    >
    > Ed[/color]



    Comment

    • Jonathan Leffler

      #17
      Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

      Nonsense wrote:
      [color=blue]
      > SPAM[/color]

      In comp.databases. informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
      was true of comp.databases. ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
      that group if there is disagreement.

      It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
      comp.databases. oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
      groups. In future, post to comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace - simply
      to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
      unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.


      --
      Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h >
      Email: jleffler@earthl ink.net, jleffler@us.ibm .com
      Guardian of DBD::Informix v2003.04 -- http://dbi.perl.org/

      Comment

      • SkidMark

        #18
        Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

        Thanks Mr Leffler for your response.

        We are closing out this ticket.

        Should you have any further inquiries regarding this newsgroup
        pile 'o poop please refer to this ticket number: ipp9091

        -IPP Customer Support-

        - Internet Poop Patrol -
        Cleaning up the internet newsgroup community one diaper at a time

        "Jonathan Leffler" <jleffler@earth link.net> wrote in message news:rqT_b.8456 $aT1.5985@newsr ead1.news.pas.e arthlink.net...[color=blue]
        > Nonsense wrote:
        >[color=green]
        > > SPAM[/color]
        >
        > In comp.databases. informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
        > was true of comp.databases. ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
        > that group if there is disagreement.
        >
        > It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
        > comp.databases. oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
        > groups. In future, post to comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace - simply
        > to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
        > unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.
        >
        >
        > --
        > Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h >
        > Email: jleffler@earthl ink.net, jleffler@us.ibm .com
        > Guardian of DBD::Informix v2003.04 -- http://dbi.perl.org/
        >[/color]



        Comment

        • Daniel Morgan

          #19
          Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

          Jonathan Leffler wrote:[color=blue]
          > Nonsense wrote:
          >[color=green]
          >> SPAM[/color]
          >
          >
          > In comp.databases. informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
          > was true of comp.databases. ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
          > that group if there is disagreement.
          >
          > It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
          > comp.databases. oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
          > groups. In future, post to comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace - simply
          > to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
          > unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.[/color]

          Au contraire. We are very attuned to open source. But when one
          allows one vendor to post a message all others take that as an
          invitation: Open season.

          It is incumbent upon all persons posting to all usenet groups to
          read the group's charter and follow it. The Oracle group's charter
          specifically sets aside a group for such messages.

          At the very least those that post are guilty of being rude. And
          that alone is enough to justify calling them spammers and to
          encourage others to not do business with them. Even Oracle Corp.
          itself is not exempt from following the rules. If someone finds
          it too much of a burden to read the Charter and follow the rules
          likely they are no someone we would wish to do business with.

          --
          Daniel Morgan
          We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

          We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

          damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
          (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

          Comment

          • Ed Avis

            #20
            Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

            Jonathan Leffler <jleffler@earth link.net> writes:
            [color=blue]
            >It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
            >comp.databases .oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
            >groups.[/color]

            I think this is still open to debate - I can't see anything in the
            charter of oracle.misc that would make it against the rules - but we
            will discuss this on the Oracle groups themselves.

            Personally I am pleased to hear about free software related to Oracle
            and I don't consider it spam for the simple reason that no money is
            involved. I completely agree with the people who say they will never
            give money to spammers, but in this case it's irrelevant because free
            software projects do not require payment.

            --
            Ed Avis <ed@membled.com >

            Comment

            • SkidMark

              #21
              MARKED FOR POOP Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

              Daniel,

              Your latest post has been marked as "POOP" and entered into
              our database. Additionally, our judges have downgraded your
              status from rock to lime.

              Ratings are determined solely on the quality your posts, if you
              can somehow produce better quality communications we will of
              course upgrade your rating. As you may or may not know,
              diamond is our highest rating, dirt is our lowest. Lime is
              one rating up from dirt, so you may want to consider some
              sort of training to get your posts back to Rock.

              You can appeal our decision after 30 days, by submitting proof
              of a diaper change. A digital image of a clean diaper is
              typically enough to get the status changed, but the image must
              contain a picture of you holding the diaper and it must not
              show the slightest hint of skid marks or other soil. If the
              judges do not grant the appeal you can usually get upgraded
              in 60 days automatically if you have not had any other posts
              of a nature that would show soil.

              Incidentally, PEAR is not written by a commercial entity,
              and is not a commercial business or enterprise or vendor as
              you had erroneously stated. PEAR is a contribution from the
              Open Source community to the PHP developer community. PHP
              connects to many databases, as well as being one of the most
              popular programming environments available, and is completely
              free of charge to anyone that wants to use it. Announcements
              about PEAR and PHP are not SPAM. Posts like yours are however,
              completely stinky POOP.

              -IPP-

              "Daniel Morgan" <damorgan@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:1077725344 .716058@yasure. ..[color=blue]
              > Jonathan Leffler wrote:[color=green]
              > > Nonsense wrote:
              > >[color=darkred]
              > >> SPAM[/color]
              > >
              > >
              > > In comp.databases. informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
              > > was true of comp.databases. ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
              > > that group if there is disagreement.
              > >
              > > It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
              > > comp.databases. oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
              > > groups. In future, post to comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace - simply
              > > to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
              > > unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.[/color]
              >
              > Au contraire. We are very attuned to open source. But when one
              > allows one vendor to post a message all others take that as an
              > invitation: Open season.
              >
              > It is incumbent upon all persons posting to all usenet groups to
              > read the group's charter and follow it. The Oracle group's charter
              > specifically sets aside a group for such messages.
              >
              > At the very least those that post are guilty of being rude. And
              > that alone is enough to justify calling them spammers and to
              > encourage others to not do business with them. Even Oracle Corp.
              > itself is not exempt from following the rules. If someone finds
              > it too much of a burden to read the Charter and follow the rules
              > likely they are no someone we would wish to do business with.
              >
              > --
              > Daniel Morgan
              > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
              > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
              > damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
              > (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
              >[/color]



              Comment

              • Paul Drake

                #22
                Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

                "SkidMark" <pooppatrol@int ernetpoop.org> wrote in message news:<LiU_b.460 5$zZ3.4338@fe12 .usenetserver.c om>...[color=blue]
                > Thanks Mr Leffler for your response.
                >
                > We are closing out this ticket.
                >
                > Should you have any further inquiries regarding this newsgroup
                > pile 'o poop please refer to this ticket number: ipp9091
                >
                > -IPP Customer Support-
                >
                > - Internet Poop Patrol -
                > Cleaning up the internet newsgroup community one diaper at a time
                >
                > "Jonathan Leffler" <jleffler@earth link.net> wrote in message news:rqT_b.8456 $aT1.5985@newsr ead1.news.pas.e arthlink.net...[color=green]
                > > Nonsense wrote:
                > >[color=darkred]
                > > > SPAM[/color]
                > >
                > > In comp.databases. informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
                > > was true of comp.databases. ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
                > > that group if there is disagreement.
                > >
                > > It appears that your posting to comp.databases. oracle.server and
                > > comp.databases. oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
                > > groups. In future, post to comp.databases. oracle.marketpl ace - simply
                > > to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
                > > unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h >
                > > Email: jleffler@earthl ink.net, jleffler@us.ibm .com
                > > Guardian of DBD::Informix v2003.04 -- http://dbi.perl.org/
                > >[/color][/color]

                THIS ...
                is the funniest thing that I have seen in quite some time

                I really have no wish to be the wiper of other people's bottoms. I
                also have no real desire to change diapers, unless I was fortunate to
                impregnate one of the hotest dieties on this planet (better odds of
                hitting the lotteries that I do not participate in).

                I wish you much success in policing the ... sailing the seas of cheese
                ....

                as far as attuned to open source - post the link to freshmeat.net, and
                don't force me to view the souce.

                paying the cost to be the boss,

                Pd

                Comment

                • Galen Boyer

                  #23
                  Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released

                  On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damorgan@x.wash ington.edu wrote:
                  [color=blue]
                  > All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
                  > for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
                  > configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
                  > is still spam.[/color]

                  I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
                  guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?

                  Sure, Jonathan is a great contributor, and well respected, but he
                  is "advertisin g" a site. Is it so different, or is every
                  posting's "Spam rating" to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
                  I would never call Jonathan's postings spam, but I also have a
                  hard time truly distinquishing that from the original posting in
                  this thread.

                  About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
                  extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
                  Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
                  it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
                  I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
                  have been chastised for that?

                  --
                  Galen Boyer

                  Comment

                  • Daniel Morgan

                    #24
                    Re: SPAM DB has been released

                    Galen Boyer wrote:
                    [color=blue]
                    > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damorgan@x.wash ington.edu wrote:
                    >
                    >[color=green]
                    >>All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
                    >>for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
                    >>configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
                    >>is still spam.[/color]
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
                    > guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?[/color]

                    I will gladly answer that one. Jonathan posts in response to posts
                    by other people asking for help solving a problem or requesting
                    clarification.

                    Not once has he just posted marketing in and of itself.
                    Not once has he referred anyone to his company as the solution to a problem.
                    Not once has he said "come take my class for the answer."

                    Jonathan may use a line or two more than I and others do to
                    indicate what he does and who he is but he isn't posting purely,
                    or I suspect even incidentally, in the hope of make a sale or
                    driving someone to his web site so he can sell them something.

                    A free product or give-away to get people to come to your for-profit
                    site is marketing at is most basic level. "Come on down to our used
                    car dealership and we will give you a toaster" is marketing. So is
                    "Come to our web site and download SPAM-DB 1.6 for free." In both
                    cases the motive is transparent.

                    The DB2 and Informix groups have their rules and they should be
                    respected. The Oracle group's rules should be too. And if spammers
                    aren't made to pay a price for what they do it just encourages them
                    to spam more and for others to do so too. You really don't want me,
                    and every other consultant, posting our advertising here. Really!

                    --
                    Daniel Morgan
                    We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

                    We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

                    damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
                    (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

                    Comment

                    • Brian Peasland

                      #25
                      Re: SPAM DB has been released

                      > Not once has he said "come take my class for the answer."

                      But it is ok for you to say it????? See:





                      I'm not sure you want to use this particular argument.....


                      Cheers,
                      Brian


                      --
                      =============== =============== =============== =============== =======

                      Brian Peasland
                      dba@remove_spam .peasland.com

                      Remove the "remove_spa m." from the email address to email me.


                      "I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of
                      the three"

                      Comment

                      • Daniel Morgan

                        #26
                        Re: SPAM DB has been released

                        Brian Peasland wrote:
                        [color=blue][color=green]
                        >>Not once has he said "come take my class for the answer."[/color]
                        >
                        >
                        > But it is ok for you to say it????? See:
                        >
                        >
                        > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=da...0yasure&rnum=3
                        >
                        >
                        > I'm not sure you want to use this particular argument.....
                        >
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Brian[/color]

                        I'd like to make an excuse like "I don't get paid by the student"
                        (true) or the University has turned people away 4 years out of 4
                        from the program so more applicants makes no difference (also true).

                        But truly they would be lame so I apologize.

                        --
                        Daniel Morgan
                        We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

                        We make it possible for you to keep learning at the University of Washington, even if you work full time or live outside of the Seattle area.

                        damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
                        (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

                        Comment

                        • Obnoxio The Clown

                          #27
                          Re: SPAM DB has been released

                          Daniel Morgan wrote:
                          [color=blue]
                          > But truly they would be lame so I apologize.[/color]

                          Not as lame as your justification.. . >:o)

                          --
                          "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
                          - Coluche

                          Comment

                          • Malc P

                            #28
                            Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released

                            Galen Boyer <galenboyer@hot pop.com> wrote in message news:<uwu69g7c4 .fsf@standardan dpoors.com>...
                            [color=blue]
                            >
                            > About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
                            > extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
                            > Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
                            > it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
                            > I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
                            > have been chastised for that?[/color]

                            No more than Art gets castigated when he tags "Download utils2_ak from
                            the iiug website" to his messages.
                            But then Art does it for the kudos.* ;-)
                            Malc
                            *(1) homophonic spelling of Sir Clive Sinclair's 32-bit operating
                            system running on a 16-bit chip with an 8-bit bus.
                            *(2) Feeling one gets when posting "Hey Art, I found a fatal bug in
                            that awk function of yours on myshcema line 5237"

                            Comment

                            • sybrandb@yahoo.com

                              #29
                              Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released

                              Galen Boyer <galenboyer@hot pop.com> wrote in message news:<uwu69g7c4 .fsf@standardan dpoors.com>...[color=blue]
                              > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damorgan@x.wash ington.edu wrote:
                              >[color=green]
                              > > All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
                              > > for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
                              > > configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
                              > > is still spam.[/color]
                              >
                              > I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
                              > guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
                              >
                              > Sure, Jonathan is a great contributor, and well respected, but he
                              > is "advertisin g" a site. Is it so different, or is every
                              > posting's "Spam rating" to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
                              > I would never call Jonathan's postings spam, but I also have a
                              > hard time truly distinquishing that from the original posting in
                              > this thread.
                              >
                              > About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
                              > extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
                              > Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
                              > it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
                              > I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
                              > have been chastised for that?[/color]

                              I agree with you on Jonathan's posts, especially as he is top-posting
                              his 'advertisement' for his courses and his site. I must say it annoys
                              me, especially in thoses cases he only posts a 1-lined comment.
                              In the end, even Jonathan is not more equal than other's. If he would
                              only include the url of his site, I would have no problem with that.

                              What I consider spam is every 'free download' which's ultimate purpose
                              is to attract you to a commercial site. Those posts are just like
                              holding up a carott for a rabitt: in the end the vendor has trapped
                              you, and you will end up in his Christmas dish.

                              Regards

                              Sybrand Bakker
                              Senior Oracle DBA

                              Comment

                              • Ed prochak

                                #30
                                Re: MARKED FOR POOP Re: PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released - now OT if not originally

                                "SkidMark" <pooppatrol@int ernetpoop.org> wrote in message news:<Pbc%b.102 31$n55.1554@fe2 2.usenetserver. com>...
                                [][color=blue]
                                > Incidentally, PEAR is not written by a commercial entity,
                                > and is not a commercial business or enterprise or vendor as
                                > you had erroneously stated. PEAR is a contribution from the
                                > Open Source community to the PHP developer community. PHP
                                > connects to many databases, as well as being one of the most
                                > popular programming environments available, and is completely
                                > free of charge to anyone that wants to use it.[/color]

                                Interesting but irrelenvant.
                                [color=blue]
                                > ... Announcements
                                > about PEAR and PHP are not SPAM.[/color]

                                In a sense, you are correct. The original comment should have been
                                that the announcement of the PEAR DB in comp.database.o racle.misc and
                                c.d.o.server is OFF TOPIC. Of the 4 ORACLE groups it might belong in
                                c.d.o.marketpla ce.

                                Then again, announcement of the PEAR DB might even be off topic in
                                c.d.o.marketpla ce, since it is NOT and ORACLE related product or
                                service. (Announcing PHP there would work, given that PHP connects to
                                ORACLE and other DBMS products.)

                                However, in general, SPAM refers to posting commercial announcements
                                across multiple DISCUSSION groups (as opposed to forsale groups).

                                The announcement belonged in comp.databases only, with perhaps cross
                                postings in APPROPRIATE open source groups (there might be one that
                                fits.)

                                Perhaps, Skid, you should stop sleeping on the interstate. You even
                                got this thread wrong. Meta discussions (talking about What is on
                                topic) are always ON TOPIC.

                                So take your meds, calm down, and breath. It will all be better in the
                                morning.

                                HTH,
                                ed

                                PS, my apologies to the other cross posted groups, but I wanted to
                                have some chance of Skid actually reading this reply.

                                Comment

                                Working...