Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From South Africa..

[Andre Jute]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

On Nov 8, 11:38 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@j t10000.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:11:08 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
>
>
>
<fiult...@yahoo .comwrote:

On Nov 7, 12:12 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@j t10000.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 02:24:45 -0800 (PST), tg <D2Zabc...@goog lemail.com>
wrote:

>

She and her husband, a former conservative member of
parliament, still reside in South Africa

>

Do you mean, a pro-apartheid member of parliament?  Niiice.

>

Actually, the Conservatives were the main opposition to the apartheid
government.

>

But do tell us, John Forrest Tomlinson, how the fact that this woman's
husband was in the official opposition to the apartheid government in
any way makes the observable points she raises any the less valuable.
Are you claiming that South Africa is not dangerous and corrupt under
the present ANC government?

>
It's certainly dangerous and there is certainly corruptonj.  It's also
certainly better than 25 years ago.

A moment of pure chilling horror rippled down my spine when I read
that. How ignorant can anyone be, even the self-deluded? How can the
highest murder-rate in the world possibly be better than the peace and
stability that breeds the middle classes from whose works flows all
the other good things of a Western society? How can it possibly be
good to turn peace into a gun culture where no woman is safe on the
streets and everyone who can afford it travels in armoured trucks? How
can it be better when De Beers, to attract geologists, must tell them
they will live in an armoured, guarded building, and be driven to work
in armoured cars? How can constant tribal warfare, in the place of
peace, be good for anyone?

You're ignorant or you're wanking, John Forrest Tomlinson.

Andre Jute
who twice had assassins sent after him by the old apartheid government

[Andre Jute]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

On Nov 8, 2:43 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@R EMOVETHISyahoo. com>
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

On Nov 8, 5:24 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hot mail.comwrote:

[...]
Dumbass -

>

Why, thank you, kind sir. That's the nicest thing anyone thought about
me today.[...]

>
FYI - Kurgan Gringioni's standard Usenet salutation is "Dumbass", and
has become part of the rec.bicycles.ra cing culture.

Ah, I see, Gringioni doesn't so much spray personal abuse as exhibit a
nervous defensive twitch. Makes a lot of sense. -- AJ

[Chalo]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

Andre Jute wrote:

>
John Forrest Tomlinson

It's certainly dangerous and there is certainly corruptonj.  It's also
certainly better than 25 years ago.

>
A moment of pure chilling horror rippled down my spine when I read
that. How ignorant can anyone be, even the self-deluded?

Ignorant enough to think that the black majority in South Africa were
better off under the boots of their white oppressors, evidently.

Violent crime is probably a worse problem in the American South now
than it was during the days of slavery, too. I'm guessing that black
Southerners prefer not being slaves just the same.

Chalo

[Andre Jute]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

On Nov 8, 8:53 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@g mail.comwrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
>

John Forrest Tomlinson

>

It's certainly dangerous and there is certainly corruptonj.  It's also
certainly better than 25 years ago.

>

A moment of pure chilling horror rippled down my spine when I read
that. How ignorant can anyone be, even the self-deluded?

>
Ignorant enough to think that the black majority in South Africa were
better off under the boots of their white oppressors, evidently.
>
Violent crime is probably a worse problem in the American South now
than it was during the days of slavery, too.  I'm guessing that black
Southerners prefer not being slaves just the same.
>
Chalo

So, Chalo, would you say Zimbabweans are better off now, being
murdered by their own (black) government, than they were under the
white regime which protected their lives and their liberty?

I love "being slaves", and the "under the boots of their white
oppressors" as inflammatory rhetoric, but it has nothing to do with
the facts of black goverments committing crimes ranging from
mismanagement to genocides in either Zimbabwe or South Africa, and
less to do with the white governments which preceded them, which were
competent and honest. I've been to these places. You haven't. Blacks
in southern Africa were better off than the blacks in the American
South as recently as the late 1960s (and possibly much more recently
-- it is merely that the last time I toured the South on the ground,
so to speak, was the late 60's).

What you're spouting here is wishful revisionism of the same nature as
your claim that Hoover offered Rooseveld the presidency early in
return for him dropping the New Deal.

Zimbabwe and South Africa are rich countries; under the previous
governments they exported huge amounts of food, and no one starved.
Now people are starving, and you hold that up as good governance? I'm
disappointed in you, man. I thought a guy who always gives superb
straightup advice on mechanical things would have more blunt good
sense about politics.

Andre Jute
It is not necessary to take sides, merely to observe accurately and
report dispassionately . -- Andre Jute to students destined for
journalism, Cambridge, c1978

[Kurgan Gringioni]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

On Nov 7, 10:07 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo .comwrote:
..

>
When we have your list of differences between the pre-ANC South Africa
and the pre-Obama United States in hand, I'll explain why you're an
ignorant clown.

Dumbass -


You are correct. The pre-ANC South Africa and pre-Obama United States
were exactly the same. No differences whatsover.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Malcolm McLean]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From South Africa..


"Kenny McCormack" <gazelle@shell. xmission.comwro te in message

>
This is off-topic in comp.lang.c.
>
There is no mention of Barack Obama in any of the C standards documents.
>

Quite. A thread with a C angle on the new president-elect would be quite
tpoical and fun, but I don't see that anyone has found a connection yet.
Spinoza (Nilges) had a go over on comp.programmin g, but in my opinion
failed. The OP here didn't even try to find C content.

--
Free games and programming goodies.

http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm

[Andre Jute]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From SouthAfrica..

On Nov 9, 4:29 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hot mail.comwrote:

On Nov 7, 10:07 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo .comwrote:
.
>
>
>

When we have your list of differences between the pre-ANC South Africa
and the pre-Obama United States in hand, I'll explain why you're an
ignorant clown.

>
Dumbass -
>
You are correct. The pre-ANC South Africa and pre-Obama United States
were exactly the same. No differences whatsover.
>
thanks,

Now you're getting it, Gringie. There are of course some subtle
differences. If we compare the American Deep South and South Africa in
the year Johnson became president, we find that South African rednecks
are better educated than the Southern ones, better read, real
Christians, and of course they don't have a Ku Klux Klan. Above all,
they take a paternalistic attitude to the blacks (quite as misty-eyed
as modern liberals like you). The key difference is that the South
African rednecks never were slave owners and would have reeled away in
revulsion from the idea of owning another person...

I know, you don't want serious discussion, you merely want your
prejudices stroked, like most in this discussion. My point is that,
while I don't agree with the politics of the lady's husband, the lady
who was quoted to start this conversation has her observable facts
right, and the conclusions relating to South Africa are inescapable. I
have already said that I don't think Obama will drive the US into the
same dire straits as South Africa or Zimbabwe, if only because four
years is too short a period to do serious damage.

I don't think Obama will serve a second term, also because the term is
four years; the economy will not recover in four years, regardless of
what he does (and his policies are in any event likely to extend a
short sharp correction into an extended recession), the electorate
will blame him, and these clowns, like you, now abusing people for not
having The Faith, will turn on him like they turned on Bill Clinton,
like they turned on Jimmy Carter, and so on. (They didn't so much turn
on LBJ as hate him from the beginning for not being a Kennedy. I
always thought that strange because he was by far the most effective
Democratic President of the entire century, in terms of achievement.)

The guys in this thread are professional whiners; nothing will ever be
good enough for them. Their specialty is demanding that someone else
do something, while at the same time they strive mightily to remove
the means of action.

Andre Jute
Practised observer of stupidity

[Default User]

Re: The Obamanation Gets a Dire and Critical Warning From South Africa..

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

Well, perhaps

Well, perhaps you ought to quite posting to off-topic threads here.




Brian