Mnemonic

[jacob navia]

Mnemonic means trying to remember.

Mnemonic means making annotations that remind you.

Speaking about mnemonic I saw this message.

Tor Rustad wrote:

Richard wrote:
>

>From some of the comments I read here, I often wonder if the people
>knocking debuggers have any idea whatsoever of just what they are, how
>they work and the results they can achieve.

>
We are old. Debugging a 300.000 line monster, wasn't very practical on a
VT100 terminal. Something like 24 lines of code on the screen... so a
program listing was usually nearby.
>

One of the problems with old people is that they tend to live in the
past.

They will always start telling you their "war stories" to
impress in the naive youths how HARD were the old times.

Again and again, without ever paying attention to the bored look of the
people around them...

Who cares about the old times?

TO HELL WITH THE OLD TIMES!

I am too old to live in the past. That was something I could afford
only back then... I am younger now.

TO HELL WITH THE OLD TIMES!

There is no more time to waste looking back into what was
"back then", filling life with too much rubbish that
can be safely forgotten.

This group is looking like those old people groups,
where each one starts the never ending stories, always repeated,

"You remember back then?"

When the Unisys XXX and his padding bits, 36.688 bit word
existed?

Ahhh the PDP11 and the VT100 terminal... Those were the times my friend.

The problem with age is that you tend to be swallowed by your memories.

You loose the future, the curiosity, the opennes of wondering. You
become a prisoner of the past, you abhor change. C99 is way too new.

Let's go back to C89... Those were the times my friend!

TO HELL WITH THE OLD TIMES!

[santosh]

Re: Mnemonic

jacob navia wrote:

<snipped tedious rant against history>

History teaches humility and perspective and gives a new value to
current life as the result of a collective spirit and labour of many
billions before use.

Trying hard to forget the past is as sure a sign of abnormality as
always wrapped up in it.

PS. BTW by many points of view C itself is a legacy language or nearly
one. Since you want to forget history and legacy so badly, why don't
you consider developing for one of the many shiny new languages popping
up every now and then. I suggest C#/CLI/.NET. It has many of the
features that you are constantly trying to bolt onto C.

[jacob navia]

Re: Mnemonic

santosh wrote:

jacob navia wrote:
>
<snipped tedious rant against history>
>
History teaches humility and perspective and gives a new value to
current life as the result of a collective spirit and labour of many
billions before use.
>
Trying hard to forget the past is as sure a sign of abnormality as
always wrapped up in it.
>
PS. BTW by many points of view C itself is a legacy language or nearly
one. Since you want to forget history and legacy so badly, why don't
you consider developing for one of the many shiny new languages popping
up every now and then. I suggest C#/CLI/.NET. It has many of the
features that you are constantly trying to bolt onto C.
>

I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.

You do not forget history, but you do not live in the past. The
past is a guide to the future, not just a remembering without
any goal, like in the groups of some old people like this one.


--
jacob navia
jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
logiciels/informatique

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

[Kenny McCormack]

Re: Mnemonic

In article <472d7d03$0$259 34$ba4acef3@new s.orange.fr>,
jacob navia <jacob@nospam.o rgwrote:
....

>I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
>history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.

C, as defined in this newsgroup, *is* a legacy language.

Jacob (and others in the real world, not in this ng [e.g., Microsoft])
want to "embrace and expand" C into something modern and useful (what
one of the santoshes calls "bolting on"). The regs in this NG want no
part of that.

[Eric Sosman]

Re: Mnemonic

Kenny McCormack wrote:

In article <472d7d03$0$259 34$ba4acef3@new s.orange.fr>,
jacob navia <jacob@nospam.o rgwrote:
...

>I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
>history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.

>
C, as defined in this newsgroup, *is* a legacy language.

Is there something wrong with a legacy?

leg.a.cy, n 1 : a gift by will esp. of money or other
personal property : BEQUEST 2 : something received from
an ancestor or predecessor or from the past
-- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary

When the time comes (or came), will you (did you) refuse your
inheritance?

Jacob (and others in the real world, not in this ng [e.g., Microsoft])
want to "embrace and expand" C into something modern and useful (what
one of the santoshes calls "bolting on"). The regs in this NG want no
part of that.

To the final sentence (only): A-men, brother!

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

[Kenny McCormack]

Re: Mnemonic

In article <s5adnTFcoafnd7 DanZ2dnUVZ_uyin Z2d@comcast.com >,
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrot e:

>Kenny McCormack wrote:

>In article <472d7d03$0$259 34$ba4acef3@new s.orange.fr>,
>jacob navia <jacob@nospam.o rgwrote:
>...

>>I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
>>history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.

>>
>C, as defined in this newsgroup, *is* a legacy language.

>
Is there something wrong with a legacy?
>
> leg.a.cy, n 1 : a gift by will esp. of money or other
> personal property : BEQUEST 2 : something received from
> an ancestor or predecessor or from the past
> -- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary
>
>When the time comes (or came), will you (did you) refuse your
>inheritance?

Heh heh. While I certainly take your meaning, the fact is that, in
modern computer industry vernacular, the word legacy is always a word of
negative connotation.

I didn't make the rules.

[Eric Sosman]

Re: Mnemonic

Kenny McCormack wrote:

In article <s5adnTFcoafnd7 DanZ2dnUVZ_uyin Z2d@comcast.com >,
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrot e:

>Kenny McCormack wrote:

>>In article <472d7d03$0$259 34$ba4acef3@new s.orange.fr>,
>>jacob navia <jacob@nospam.o rgwrote:
>>...
>>>I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
>>>history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.
>>C, as defined in this newsgroup, *is* a legacy language.

> Is there something wrong with a legacy?
>>
> leg.a.cy, n 1 : a gift by will esp. of money or other
> personal property : BEQUEST 2 : something received from
> an ancestor or predecessor or from the past
> -- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary
>>
>When the time comes (or came), will you (did you) refuse your
>inheritance?

>
Heh heh. While I certainly take your meaning, the fact is that, in
modern computer industry vernacular, the word legacy is always a word of
negative connotation.

Why are you using a six-year-old version of a newsreader
that's more than fifteen years old, and whose origins go back
at least twenty-three years? Each time you launch this piece
of legacy software, written in a legacy language, running on
your legacy computer, do you have a negative experience?

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

[Richard]

Re: Mnemonic

Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrit es:

Kenny McCormack wrote:

>In article <s5adnTFcoafnd7 DanZ2dnUVZ_uyin Z2d@comcast.com >,
>Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrot e:

>>Kenny McCormack wrote:
>>>In article <472d7d03$0$259 34$ba4acef3@new s.orange.fr>,
>>>jacob navia <jacob@nospam.o rgwrote:
>>>...
>>>>I do not think that C is a legacy language. And I am not "against
>>>>history" obviously. I am against people that live in the past.
>>>C, as defined in this newsgroup, *is* a legacy language.
>> Is there something wrong with a legacy?
>>>
>> leg.a.cy, n 1 : a gift by will esp. of money or other
>> personal property : BEQUEST 2 : something received from
>> an ancestor or predecessor or from the past
>> -- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary
>>>
>>When the time comes (or came), will you (did you) refuse your
>>inheritance ?

>>
>Heh heh. While I certainly take your meaning, the fact is that, in
>modern computer industry vernacular, the word legacy is always a word of
>negative connotation.

>
Why are you using a six-year-old version of a newsreader
that's more than fifteen years old, and whose origins go back
at least twenty-three years? Each time you launch this piece
of legacy software, written in a legacy language, running on
your legacy computer, do you have a negative experience?

You appear to have missed his point. The language and "common usage" of
legacy in the SW world is to mean ancient stuff kept on for
compatibility/budget requirements. It is most definitely a negative
connotation. Regardless of the dictionary meaning. And, FWIW, I agree
with you that the old stuff has its place today. People scoff at me for
using Gnus since its "non gui". Little do they know.

[jacob navia]

Re: Mnemonic

Richard wrote:

You appear to have missed his point. The language and "common usage" of
legacy in the SW world is to mean ancient stuff kept on for
compatibility/budget requirements. It is most definitely a negative
connotation. Regardless of the dictionary meaning. And, FWIW, I agree
with you that the old stuff has its place today. People scoff at me for
using Gnus since its "non gui". Little do they know.
>

1) If C is a legacy language, as Santosh and the C++
supporters in this group propose, then what is the
purpose of doing anything here? Nobody cares about
C since C is doomed to extinction. Why do they
participate in this newsgroup?

2) In my message I wasn't arguing against history or
against old people. I was pointing out that the
some people in this group are living in the past.
Living in the past is a state of refusal of change,
of anything new, and an adoration of the "old times"
(C89) where everything was pure and uncontaminated.

This is common in old people but not necessarily.
There are young people that are older than my
grandfather. Dead before they were born.

3) The level of discussion of those people is just
polemic. I presented (with source code) a proposal
for a dynamic string container. None of them
answered anything, there were only two answers.
Why?
Because they are utterly unable to discuss
technical matters beyond the endless citing
of the C89 standard...

4) Obviously, the same people that attack me
about me not disclosing the source code of
my compiler system will never discuss a
technical proposal even if I do publish the
source code *in this group*.




--
jacob navia
jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
logiciels/informatique

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

[Keith Thompson]

Re: Mnemonic

Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrit es:

Kenny McCormack wrote:

[snip]

>
Why are you using a six-year-old version of a newsreader

[snip]

Eric, please stop feeding the troll.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Looking for software development work in the San Diego area.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: Mnemonic

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:01:13 +0100, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<jacob@jacob.re mcomp.frwrote:

>Who cares about the old times?

Santayana anyone?

>There is no more time to waste looking back into what was
>"back then", filling life with too much rubbish that
>can be safely forgotten.

We can safely assume you have no interest in learning from past
mistakes or successes then.

--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

[Eric Sosman]

Re: Mnemonic

jacob navia wrote:

[...]
3) The level of discussion of those people is just
polemic. I presented (with source code) a proposal
for a dynamic string container. None of them
answered anything, there were only two answers.
Why?

Stop right there, Jacob: Do you claim paranormal powers?
Have you been reading everyone's mind?

Because they are utterly unable to discuss
technical matters beyond the endless citing
of the C89 standard...

Silly me! I thought my reasons for abstaining from that
particular thread were entirely different -- but since you say
otherwise, I must, of course, have been totally mistaken. Thank
you for opening my blind eyes to the Truth that flows from Jacob.

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

[Eric Sosman]

Re: Mnemonic

Keith Thompson wrote:

Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrit es:

>Kenny McCormack wrote:

[snip]

> Why are you using a six-year-old version of a newsreader

[snip]
>
Eric, please stop feeding the troll.

And your C question was ...?

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

[Tor Rustad]

Re: Mnemonic

jacob navia wrote:

TO HELL WITH THE OLD TIMES!

"Ceux qui ne connaissent pas l'Histoire sont condamnés à la revivre"

--
Tor <bwzcab@wvtqvm. vw | tr i-za-h a-z>

[Keith Thompson]

Re: Mnemonic

Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrit es:

Keith Thompson wrote:

>Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalidwrit es:

>>Kenny McCormack wrote:

>[snip]

>> Why are you using a six-year-old version of a newsreader

>[snip]
>Eric, please stop feeding the troll.

>
And your C question was ...?

Can you please help to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of this
newsgroup, encouraging more discussion of C, by not feeding the troll?

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Looking for software development work in the San Diego area.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"