string splitting

[Ben Pfaff]

Re: string splitting

Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:

Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>
STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>
NAME
strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>
LIBRARY
Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.
--
"It wouldn't be a new C standard if it didn't give a
new meaning to the word `static'."
--Peter Seebach on C99

[CBFalconer]

Re: string splitting

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Daniel Rudy said:
>

.... snip ...

>

STRSEP(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual

>
What makes you think FreeBSD get to decide what is in the standard
C library?
>
$ grep -i strsep c89.txt
$

and similarly for N869.txt (C99)

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>

[CBFalconer]

Re: string splitting

Daniel Rudy wrote:

>

.... snip ...

>
I didn't say that FreeBSD should decide what goes into the C library.
What I was getting at is the fact that since the function has been
around along time, and that it's superior to strtok (strsep handles
situations that strtok doesn't), why hasn't it been included (at
least in the POSIX standard if not the C standard)?

Who says it is superior? Another candidate is toksplit (detailed
elsethread). It all depends on what is required. There is no
pressing need for any of these in the standard library, since they
can all easily be written in standard C.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>

[Keith Thompson]

Re: string splitting

Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>

>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>>
>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>
>NAME
> strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>
>LIBRARY
> Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

>
File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.
(I suspect the math functions are in a different library.)

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[Charlton Wilbur]

Re: string splitting

>>>>"BP" == Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>NAME strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>
>LIBRARY Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

BPFile a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

Depends on which standard is being referred to, and which function;
strtok() is in fact standard C. The word "standard" may also not be
used in the c.l.c sense of ISO/ANSI standard C, but to refer to the C
library generally shipped with FreeBSD.

On the other hand, the BSDs I have access to at this very moment -- OS
X and OpenBSD - both correctly note in the relevant manpages that
strsep() is an improved version of the standard strtok(), and that
strtok() is ANSI/ISO standard C while strtok_r and strsep are not. So
this is most likely a FreeBSD issue.

Charlton


--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilbur@chromat ico.net

[Ben Pfaff]

Re: string splitting

Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chroma tico.netwrites:

>>>>>"BP" == Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>

>NAME strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>
>LIBRARY Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

>
BPFile a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.
>
Depends on which standard is being referred to, and which function;
strtok() is in fact standard C. The word "standard" may also not be
used in the c.l.c sense of ISO/ANSI standard C, but to refer to the C
library generally shipped with FreeBSD.

I missed the fact that the article I was directly following up
was quoting from the strtok manpage. The article a few layers up
was in fact quoting from the strsep manpage, which also claims
that strsep is in the standard C library. That's the one that
needs a bug report.
--
A competent C programmer knows how to write C programs correctly,
a C expert knows enough to argue with Dan Pop, and a C expert
expert knows not to bother.

[Ben Pfaff]

Re: string splitting

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :

Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>>

>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>>>
>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>>
>>NAME
>> strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>>
>>LIBRARY
>> Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

>>
>File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

>
The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.

If you call something the Standard C Library then you're just
going to confuse people if it, in fact, isn't just the standard C
library. At least the GNU folks don't call their library the
Standard C Library (they call it the GNU C library).
--
"The lusers I know are so clueless, that if they were dipped in clue
musk and dropped in the middle of pack of horny clues, on clue prom
night during clue happy hour, they still couldn't get a clue."
--Michael Girdwood, in the monastery

[Yevgen Muntyan]

Re: string splitting

Ben Pfaff wrote:

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :
>

>Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>>Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>>>
>>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>>>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>>>>
>>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>>>
>>>NAME
>>> strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>>>
>>>LIBRARY
>>> Standard C Library (libc, -lc)
>>File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

>The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
>function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
>(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.

>
If you call something the Standard C Library then you're just
going to confuse people if it, in fact, isn't just the standard C
library.

In many situations "Standard C library" is simply a synonym of "libc"
which in turn is a word denoting the C library shipped with the
operating system. May be confusing, indeed.

At least the GNU folks don't call their library the
Standard C Library (they call it the GNU C library).

Perhaps because there is no (real) GNU operating system?

Yevgen

[Dik T. Winter]

Re: string splitting

In article <lnzm74bufh.fsf @nuthaus.mib.or gKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :
....

The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.
(I suspect the math functions are in a different library.)

The man page of the version of Linux I am using has a CONFORMING TO
section:

strtok():
SVr4, POSIX.1-2001, 4.3BSD, C89.
strtok_r():
POSIX.1-2001
strsep():
4.4BSD
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

[Randy Howard]

Re: string splitting

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:13:14 -0600, Ian Malone wrote
(in article <45DC375A.60602 01@cam.ac.uk>):

Richard Heathfield wrote:

>Andrea said:
>>

>>I want to write a program that:
>>>
>>char * strplit(char* str1, char *str2, char * stroriginal,int
>>split_point )
>>>
>>that take stroriginal and split in the split_point element of the
>>string the string into two other strings,
>>>
>>example:
>>>
>>"Hello World"
>>i want to split this string into "Hello " "World"

>>
>What's stopping you?

>
An inappropriate prototype?
char * strplit(char* str1, char *str2, char * stroriginal,
int split_point)
>

Namespace violation with strplit() ??

Plus, wouldn't strsplit() make more sense anyway, if you didn't care
about that? How about splitstr() instead?

A purist might also say that stroriginal should be const.

Questions for the OP:
What should be passed in str1, str2, stroriginal and
split_point?

What is the expected behavior if str1 is NULL? If str2 is NULL? If
stroriginal should be NULL?

What is the significance of the return value going to be?

Right. Since you can only return one of them, I wonder what the point
of that is.

>
As written I suspect that you plan to put the two sub-
strings into the memory pointed to by str1 and str2,
how will your function know that the objects pointed
to by these are large enough to hold the sub-strings?

Indeed.


--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Randy Howard]

Re: string splitting

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:06:22 -0600, Ben Pfaff wrote
(in article <87d540r8wh.fsf @blp.benpfaff.o rg>):

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :
>

>Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>>Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>>>
>>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>>>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>>>>
>>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>>>
>>>NAME
>>>strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>>>
>>>LIBRARY
>>>Standard C Library (libc, -lc)
>>>
>>File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

>>
>The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
>function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
>(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.

>
If you call something the Standard C Library then you're just
going to confuse people if it, in fact, isn't just the standard C
library.

Take it up with almost every man page on any UNIX or Linux distro.
This is a very common problem, where all the kitchen sink addons get
stuck in there, and what they mean is really "No additional libraries
need to be included to get this function".

The key point was lower down in the man page posted upthread, where it
said it was in the C standard (incorrectly).


--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Randy Howard]

Re: string splitting

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:20:40 -0600, Randy Howard wrote
(in article <0001HW.C2130D1 803DCC8C7F02036 48@news.verizon .net>):

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:06:22 -0600, Ben Pfaff wrote
(in article <87d540r8wh.fsf @blp.benpfaff.o rg>):
>

>Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :
>>

>>Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:
>>>Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>>>>
>>>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>>>>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:
>>>>>
>>>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>>>>
>>>>NAME
>>>>strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>>>>
>>>>LIBRARY
>>>>Standard C Library (libc, -lc)
>>>>
>>>File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.
>>>
>>The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
>>function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
>>(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.

>>
>If you call something the Standard C Library then you're just
>going to confuse people if it, in fact, isn't just the standard C
>library.

>
Take it up with almost every man page on any UNIX or Linux distro.
This is a very common problem, where all the kitchen sink addons get
stuck in there, and what they mean is really "No additional libraries
need to be included to get this function".
>
The key point was lower down in the man page posted upthread, where it
said it was in the C standard (incorrectly).

Correction on the last paragraph of my previous post, I read it too
quickly, it was referring to strtok, not strsep in that portion, and in
fact did refer to the portability issue with strsep().


--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[Randy Howard]

Re: string splitting

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:05:22 -0600, Ben Pfaff wrote
(in article <87hctcr8y5.fsf @blp.benpfaff.o rg>):

Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chroma tico.netwrites:
>

>>>>>>"BP" == Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanfor d.eduwrites:

>>

>>>NAME strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens
>>>>
>>>LIBRARY Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

>>
>BPFile a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.
>>
>Depends on which standard is being referred to, and which function;
>strtok() is in fact standard C. The word "standard" may also not be
>used in the c.l.c sense of ISO/ANSI standard C, but to refer to the C
>library generally shipped with FreeBSD.

>
I missed the fact that the article I was directly following up
was quoting from the strtok manpage. The article a few layers up
was in fact quoting from the strsep manpage, which also claims
that strsep is in the standard C library. That's the one that
needs a bug report.

It's a convention thing. That top section is indicating that it is in
the "standard" library, in the sense that no additional -lfoo type
incantations are required to link in an extra library. By convention,
man pages like that do not care an iota about ANSI or ISO standards
there, but only in one gets linked without extra effort. The section
near the end of the same man pages usually calls out a source, either
as a version of a UNIX platform first supporting it, POSIX, ISO, or an
add-on library.



--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[J. J. Farrell]

Re: string splitting

On Mar 6, 10:20 am, Randy Howard <randyhow...@FO OverizonBAR.net >
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:06:22 -0600, Ben Pfaff wrote
(in article <87d540r8wh.... @blp.benpfaff.o rg>):

Keith Thompson <k...@mib.orgwr ites:

Ben Pfaff <b...@cs.stanfo rd.eduwrites:
>Daniel Rudy <spamt...@spamt his.netwrites:

>

>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C library and
>>what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see the cause of confusion:

>

>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual

>

>>NAME
>>strtok, strtok_r -- string tokens

>

>>LIBRARY
>>Standard C Library (libc, -lc)

>

>File a bug against the FreeBSD manpage then. It's wrong.

>

The phrase "Standard C Library" doesn't necessarily imply that the
function is defined by the C standard. Probably "libc" implements
(most of) the functions defined by the C standard, plus some others.

>

If you call something the Standard C Library then you're just
going to confuse people if it, in fact, isn't just the standard C
library.

>
Take it up with almost every man page on any UNIX or Linux distro.
This is a very common problem, where all the kitchen sink addons get
stuck in there, and what they mean is really "No additional libraries
need to be included to get this function".

This is a question of history. The term "standard C library" was in
widespread use long before the C Standard came along. As Randy says,
it referred to the library which was searched by default when linking
a C program. There are archived discussions in this newsgroup from
before the Great Renaming (and hence years before the C Standard)
which use it in this way. The definitive write-up about the Internet
Worm of 1988 refers to gets() as a function in the "standard C
library" and goes on to remark that it probably won't go away any time
soon as it's slated to be included in the upcoming C Standard.

The confusion was caused when the Johnny-come-lately C Standard
appeared and usurped the term. The man pages in many UNIXalikes
continue to use the term in its traditional sense, which causes
confusion for those who don't know the history. It's perhaps time the
authors spotted that using "C" and "standard" together might make
readers think they are referring to the C Standard.

[CBFalconer]

Re: string splitting

Randy Howard wrote:

>>>Daniel Rudy <spamthis@spamt his.netwrites:
>>>>
>>>>Now I'm not too up on what functions comprise the standard C
>>>>library and what doesn't, reading THIS man page you can see
>>>>the cause of confusion:
>>>>>
>>>>STRTOK(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual
>>>>>

.... snip ...

>
The key point was lower down in the man page posted upthread,
where it said it was in the C standard (incorrectly).

One of us is confused. I find strtok in the C standard.

--
<http://www.cs.auckland .ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt>
<http://www.securityfoc us.com/columnists/423>

"A man who is right every time is not likely to do very much."
-- Francis Crick, co-discover of DNA
"There is nothing more amazing than stupidity in action."
-- Thomas Matthews