Should I learn C++ or Java now?

[inline_four@yahoo.com]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

I disagree. I think learning C first is a good idea if you're
planning to master procedural programming. Not saying, it's bad, but
in my own experience, you can get ahead better with a solid
understanding of OOP. I believe it's better to get good at OOP with a
language such as Java or Python and then move on to things like C++ to
be able to write fast applications (GUI, games, complex number
crunching).

"vijay" <getvijay2k@yah oo.com> wrote in message news:<bf5oa6$cc m$1@news.mch.sb s.de>...[color=blue]
> learning C++ is best done aftee u learn c thoroughly
> Because u wud be able to make a differece between language specific
> syntactical info(in C) and object oriented concepts of C++
> Once u learn language syntax in C thorughly , when u start learning C++ u
> wud be able to apprciate the OOPS concepts in C++,
>
> Java since its made a platform independent it will be too heavy on u if u
> are not sure of basic concepts of a high level language ,
>
> My advice is start with a simple c book, learn to program, then open
> Kennigham and ritche's C BOOK, which is like Bible of C, and learn the
> language
> After that use Stanley Lipmann's Primer C++ .
>
> U can as well lean Java basics along with Primer C++ as most of the concepts
> are similar,
>
> Vijay[/color]

[tom_usenet]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:02:21 +0200, Alexander Terekhov
<terekhov@web.d e> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:
>[...][color=green]
>> To understand a language is to understand the programming techniques
>> it supports and how it supports them.[/color]
>
>AFAICS, C++ doesn't support things like: (see TC++PL)
>
>void g(priority_queu e<string,String _cmp>& pq)
>{
> priority_queue< string> pq2(String_cmp( nocase));[/color]

presumably:
priority_queue< string,String_c mp> pq2(String_cmp( nocase));
[color=blue]
> pq = pq2; // ok: pq and pq2 are of the same type, pq now also uses String_cmp(noca se)
>}
>
>Or am I just missing (e.g. some errata) and/or misunderstandin g something?[/color]

What's wrong with the code fragment (apart from the typo)? It empties
the passed priority queue and gives it String_cmp(noca se) as its
predicate.

Tom

[Alexander Terekhov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


tom_usenet wrote:
[...][color=blue][color=green]
> >AFAICS, C++ doesn't support things like: (see TC++PL)
> >
> >void g(priority_queu e<string,String _cmp>& pq)
> >{
> > priority_queue< string> pq2(String_cmp( nocase));[/color]
>
> presumably:
> priority_queue< string,String_c mp> pq2(String_cmp( nocase));[/color]

Yep.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > pq = pq2; // ok: pq and pq2 are of the same type, pq now also uses String_cmp(noca se)
> >}
> >
> >Or am I just missing (e.g. some errata) and/or misunderstandin g something?[/color]
>
> What's wrong with the code fragment (apart from the typo)?[/color]

Uhmm. Based on the TC++PL quotation below, I tend to clasify it as a
thinko ("ala Bazarov"; see the context from there it all comes from),
not typo.

<quote>

map<string,int> m1;
map<string,int, Nocase> m2; // specify comparison type (§17.1.4.1)
map<string,int, String_cmp> m3; // specify comparison type (§17.1.4.1)
map<string,int> m4(String_cmp(l iterary)); // pass comparison object

</quote>

I may be missing and/or misunderstandin g something, of course.

regards,
alexander.

P.S. Hey Bazarov, "great minds think alike", oder? ;-)

[tom_usenet]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:27:20 +0200, Alexander Terekhov
<terekhov@web.d e> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> What's wrong with the code fragment (apart from the typo)?[/color]
>
>Uhmm. Based on the TC++PL quotation below, I tend to clasify it as a
>thinko ("ala Bazarov"; see the context from there it all comes from),
>not typo.
>
><quote>
>
>map<string,int > m1;
>map<string,int ,Nocase> m2; // specify comparison type (§17.1.4.1)
>map<string,int ,String_cmp> m3; // specify comparison type (§17.1.4.1)
>map<string,int > m4(String_cmp(l iterary)); // pass comparison object
>
></quote>
>
>I may be missing and/or misunderstandin g something, of course.[/color]

If he makes the same mistake twice in different contexts, it seems
like he's expecting template argument deduction of a type from
arguments passed to the constructor or something. A thinko, as you
say!

Tom

[Alexander Terekhov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:
[...][color=blue]
> You can find the errata on my home pages,[/color]

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/3rd_printing6.html (m4)
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/3rd_printing7.html (Pqueue)
[color=blue]
> but if you have an early
> edition, it might be worth upgrading. The latest printing is the 18th.[/color]

I have the 3rd edition pdf(s) [1st printing, I guess] from the IBM
Visual Age C/C++. Uhmm, perhaps you can provide a patch, oder? ;-)

regards,
alexander.

--
"If Unix were a car, they said, SCO Unix was like a driving motorized
wheelbarrow through a mosquito-infested swamp naked with both hands
tied behind your back."

-- http://www.humorix.org/articles/may03/sco.shtml

[Bjarne Stroustrup]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.d e> wrote in message
[color=blue]
> I have the 3rd edition pdf(s) [1st printing, I guess] from the IBM
> Visual Age C/C++. Uhmm, perhaps you can provide a patch, oder? ;-)[/color]

I think what they shipped with the IBM compiler was something like a
3rd printing. It's now 1000+ corrections/improvements and two
appendices behind. If I were actually using it, I'd retire it to my
personal museum and get a new printing.

I do provide "patches" aka errata, and the two extra appendices are
also on my home pages as is the C/C++ compatibility appendix (by
popular demand). However, "patches" will only get you so far.

[Alexander Terekhov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.d e> wrote in message
>[color=green]
> > I have the 3rd edition pdf(s) [1st printing, I guess] from the IBM
> > Visual Age C/C++. Uhmm, perhaps you can provide a patch, oder? ;-)[/color]
>
> I think what they shipped with the IBM compiler was something like a
> 3rd printing. It's now 1000+ corrections/improvements and two
> appendices behind. If I were actually using it, I'd retire it to my
> personal museum and get a new printing.[/color]

The "problem" is that I really need pdf(s)! Searching aside, I have
terrific ThinkPad with a FlexView display, you know.
[color=blue]
>
> I do provide "patches" aka errata, and the two extra appendices are
> also on my home pages as is the C/C++ compatibility appendix (by
> popular demand). However, "patches" will only get you so far.[/color]

I meant that "a patch" would provide some "data" plus some nice C++
program [open source, of course] that I'd use to update the stuff:

02/18/1998 03:03 PM 71,601 appA.pdf
02/18/1998 03:04 PM 63,046 appB.pdf
02/18/1998 03:06 PM 196,765 appC.pdf
02/18/1998 03:07 PM 86,541 ch1.pdf
02/18/1998 03:08 PM 183,056 ch10.pdf
02/18/1998 03:09 PM 200,553 ch11.pdf
02/18/1998 03:16 PM 153,774 ch12.pdf
02/18/1998 03:17 PM 152,795 ch13.pdf
02/18/1998 03:18 PM 165,478 ch14.pdf
02/18/1998 03:02 PM 202,431 ch15.pdf
02/18/1998 03:19 PM 177,831 ch16.pdf
02/18/1998 03:23 PM 269,602 ch17.pdf
02/18/1998 03:24 PM 264,881 ch18.pdf
02/18/1998 03:36 PM 193,287 ch19.pdf
02/18/1998 03:37 PM 119,948 ch2.pdf
02/18/1998 03:38 PM 166,133 ch20.pdf
02/18/1998 03:42 PM 301,934 ch21.pdf
02/18/1998 03:43 PM 202,769 ch22.pdf
02/18/1998 03:46 PM 135,671 ch23.pdf
02/18/1998 03:48 PM 195,784 ch24.pdf
02/18/1998 03:49 PM 132,684 ch25.pdf
02/18/1998 03:50 PM 121,593 ch3.pdf
02/18/1998 03:51 PM 96,204 ch4.pdf
02/18/1998 03:52 PM 102,436 ch5.pdf
02/18/1998 03:54 PM 177,092 ch6.pdf
02/18/1998 03:55 PM 118,218 ch7.pdf
02/18/1998 03:56 PM 149,431 ch8.pdf
02/18/1998 03:57 PM 126,849 ch9.pdf
02/18/1998 03:59 PM 165,653 index.pdf
02/10/1998 02:32 PM 8,970 npref.pdf
02/10/1998 02:30 PM 7,495 opref.pdf
02/04/1998 01:55 PM 5,766 part0.pdf
02/04/1998 01:50 PM 4,827 part1.pdf
02/04/1998 01:52 PM 5,130 part2.pdf
02/04/1998 01:53 PM 4,800 part3.pdf
02/04/1998 01:53 PM 5,144 part4.pdf
02/04/1998 01:46 PM 4,640 partA.pdf
02/10/1998 02:29 PM 8,604 pref.pdf
02/18/1998 04:01 PM 45,888 tbl.pdf
02/10/1998 02:35 PM 10,993 title.pdf

I'd simply "apply a patch" and, voila, all bugs are gone and I
enjoy 1000+ corrections/improvements. Well, it won't "++" book
sales, though. ;-)

regards,
alexander.

[John D.]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

elijahlofgren@y ahoo.com (Elijah) wrote in message news:<63ff2c1b. 0307161838.7e46 bca2@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue]
> I have read many of the topics on learning C++ or Java first.
> It seems like everyone says something different.
> I would like to know if I should learn C++ or Java.
> First a little about myself.
> I know PHP, BASIC, and of course HTML.
> I'll be 15 years old in September.
> I am interested in programming GUI applications.
> I am also interested in programming games.
> I know that I should learn C++ to program games, but would learning
> Java make the process any easier? Or am I better of just diving right
> into C++?
> Are there any recommended books on Java or C++ (depending on which
> language I should learn first) for the beginner who only know PHP and
> BASIC?[/color]

If you want to learn to program games you should start
with learning how to program games. Choice of language is incidental.
Find a good book on programming games in BASIC. Once you grasp
the fundamentals of games design, you will be able realize
what you really need from a programming language to help implement
your idea. Programming games is more than just writing C++ or
Java code. It is a writing a script, designing user interface,
graphics, graphics engine, scripting engine, etc, etc, etc...

BASIC is a good language to learn programming. If you want to take
on C++, then use what you already know. This is how I would do it.
1. Think of an algorithm you want to implement.
2. Implement it in BASIC.
3. Then do it in C++.
4. Then do it in C++ without using "goto". :)

[Bladez]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


i personaly think learning C++ first then maybe doing java , C++ will
probley give u a better idea on java


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com

[Fred]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

Bladez wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> i personaly think learning C++ first then maybe doing java , C++ will
> probley give u a better idea on java
>
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com[/color]

Outside of very basic similarities in syntax, one will not really help you
with the other.

Learn first whatever you think will pay the bills the quickest.

Java is actually more complicated to learn, not because of the language
itself, but because of all the extra subsystems one needs to know in
today's marketplace -- J2EE, Struts, JSP, etc.

-Fred
--
Shameless plug:

http://JobMarketIntelligence.com

A database of high-tech firms at your fingertips.

[Govindan]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


"Fred" <fred@jobmarket intelligence.co m> wrote in message
news:iJ95b.3350 93$YN5.228379@s ccrnsc01...[color=blue]
> Bladez wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > i personaly think learning C++ first then maybe doing java , C++ will
> > probley give u a better idea on java
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://dbforums.com[/color]
>
> Outside of very basic similarities in syntax, one will not really help you
> with the other.
>
> Learn first whatever you think will pay the bills the quickest.
>
> Java is actually more complicated to learn, not because of the language
> itself, but because of all the extra subsystems one needs to know in
> today's marketplace -- J2EE, Struts, JSP, etc.
>
> -Fred
> --
> Shameless plug:
> http://JobMarketIntelligence.com
> A database of high-tech firms at your fingertips.[/color]

I agree with Fred, learn the skillset that helps pay the bill first.

However from a technical viewpoint, learn C++ really well, most commercial
and network applications are written in C/C++.
Then learn a bit of Java, since it is so popular now, it wouldnt hurt to put
it on your resume.

In my opinion, the core language Java and associated technologies like
J2SE(Java Standard Edition ) and J2EE (Java Enterprise)
are for people who can't program well or dont have the adequate Computer
Science or Engineering background to do
enterprise development in teams. Java is more for cyber coolies.

For example EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) was invented because most
programmers and developers could not handle the
complexity of CORBA,DCOM, RMI and all that funky distributed and advanced
database computing stuff like transaction processing,
component models. EJB provides a very simplified abstraction for component
transaction monitors (CTMs), which represented
convergence of 2 technologies like transaction processing monitors (TP) eg
Tuxedo etc and distributed object services like DCOM, CORBA etc.
EJB is just a simple server-side component model that makes it easier to
developer Java components (EJBs, web applications etc)
among various Application servers( that is the EJB containers). The J2EE
specifications are just a bunch of coding, design rules and contractual
terms
that allows one standard J2EE application that runs one one standard J2EE
container to run in another without modification.

Struts and JSP are no harder than DHTML or Embedded Perl with some XML
thrown in for configuration and deployment.
ASP and Visual Basic is more brainless, trivial.

Java has syntax more similar to C than C++; had garbage collection,
exception handling similar to C++.
Java does not have multiple inheritance like C++, uses interfaces instead.
Java is a distant dialect of Lisp
with C-like syntax and with some Smalltalk semantics thrown in.

Learn C++ well and some Java.

Regards,
Govindan