Should I learn C++ or Java now?

[Peter van Merkerk]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

> Does learning C first help? A bit perhaps. Does it "poison the well"?[color=blue]
> Nonsense.[/color]

Just read this newsgroup for a while and you will see my point.

--
Peter van Merkerk
peter.van.merke rk(at)dse.nl

[Cy Edmunds]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"Peter van Merkerk" <merkerk@deadsp am.com> wrote in message
news:bf74gj$bp1 ro$1@ID-133164.news.uni-berlin.de...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Does learning C first help? A bit perhaps. Does it "poison the well"?
> > Nonsense.[/color]
>
> Just read this newsgroup for a while and you will see my point.
>
> --
> Peter van Merkerk
> peter.van.merke rk(at)dse.nl
>
>[/color]

I DO read the newsgroup, and I DO see your point. I see it very clearly. :)

--
Cy

http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/

[Default User]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?



Peter van Merkerk wrote:[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > Does learning C first help? A bit perhaps. Does it "poison the well"?
> > Nonsense.[/color]
>
> Just read this newsgroup for a while and you will see my point.[/color]


Uhmmm, I first posted to this group in June of 1999, and so have been
reading it with fair regularity for at least that four years (I'm sure
at least a month prior to that date). As such, I don't see your point.

Can people program badly in C++? Sure. Can people stupidly try apply
things they've learned from other languages to programming in C++? You
bet. But is learning C first a handicap? I don't think so.



Brian Rodenborn

[mjm]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

>[color=blue]
> If you know Java so much better, what are you doing here?
>[/color]

Your approval is not necessary to be here.

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"mjm" <spyqqqdia@yaho o.com> wrote...[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > If you know Java so much better, what are you doing here?
> >[/color]
>
> Your approval is not necessary to be here.[/color]

It's apparently you who thinks the question was about any kind
of "approval to be here". You advocate using Java in a C++
newsgroup. Answer this question: what are your motivations?

[Peter van Merkerk]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"Victor Bazarov" <v.Abazarov@att Abi.com> wrote in message
news:vhftospc3m qhb8@corp.super news.com...[color=blue]
> "mjm" <spyqqqdia@yaho o.com> wrote...[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > If you know Java so much better, what are you doing here?[/color]
> > Your approval is not necessary to be here.[/color]
> It's apparently you who thinks the question was about any kind
> of "approval to be here". You advocate using Java in a C++
> newsgroup. Answer this question: what are your motivations?[/color]

I never knew this was advocacy group for C++. Though I don't agree with
MJMs assessment, I don't think that postings here suggesting that Java
is a better choice should be censored by default either. If Java fits
the bill better than C++ (sometimes it does, but IMHO not in this case)
then by all means use it.

--
Peter van Merkerk
peter.van.merke rk(at)dse.nl

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"Peter van Merkerk" <merkerk@deadsp am.com> wrote...[color=blue]
> "Victor Bazarov" <v.Abazarov@att Abi.com> wrote in message
> news:vhftospc3m qhb8@corp.super news.com...[color=green]
> > "mjm" <spyqqqdia@yaho o.com> wrote...[color=darkred]
> > > > If you know Java so much better, what are you doing here?
> > > Your approval is not necessary to be here.[/color]
> > It's apparently you who thinks the question was about any kind
> > of "approval to be here". You advocate using Java in a C++
> > newsgroup. Answer this question: what are your motivations?[/color]
>
> I never knew this was advocacy group for C++.[/color]

It's not.
[color=blue]
> Though I don't agree with
> MJMs assessment, I don't think that postings here suggesting that Java
> is a better choice should be censored by default either.[/color]

Neither do I.
[color=blue]
> If Java fits
> the bill better than C++ (sometimes it does, but IMHO not in this case)
> then by all means use it.[/color]

Sure thing.

Peter, I think some emotions (perhaps rubbing off from earlier in
the thread) make you jump to conclusions. I asked the question.
Why do you need to see some kind of a hidden agenda behind it?
Why do you think it's an attempt to censor anything or a statement
against anything?

I am in no way against Java or any other language. However, bold
statements indicating superiority of anything over something else,
which usually aren't or cannot be substantiated, lead to agitated
state of the participants of the discussion. If that (agitation)
is _not_ the intention, some kind of calming interruption is needed.
I simply asked the question to see if 'mjm' had anything to say
that would clear him/her of my suspicion.

Yes, I suspect that 'mjm' is trolling (wilfully or not). But I
can be mistaken and that's why I've asked the question.

Take a deep breath. Count to ten. There is no need to jump on
anyone's throat. Yet.

Victor

[Alexander Terekhov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?


Victor Bazarov wrote:
[...][color=blue]
> I simply asked the question to see if 'mjm' had anything to say
> that would clear him/her of my suspicion.
>
> Yes, I suspect that 'mjm' is trolling (wilfully or not). ....[/color]

Bazarov, one thing is pretty clear: your "motivation " is nothing but
trollophobia (a serious mental disease). Oh boy, I think that you're
suffering from it pretty badly. Condolences, my poor friend.

regards,
alexander.

P.S. I've emailed you some spare killfile segments; you know, "just
in case".

[Lindon]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

try www.python.org, everybody loves python!

[mjm]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

> Answer this question: what are your motivations?

Strictly to give my subjective assessment of the relative difficulties
of working with Java and C++.

If someone comes from PHP and HTML would you recommend Stroustrup to him?

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"mjm" <spyqqqdia@yaho o.com> wrote...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Answer this question: what are your motivations?[/color]
>
> Strictly to give my subjective assessment of the relative difficulties
> of working with Java and C++.[/color]

Giving your subjective assessment is the means. But what is
the goal? Are you trying to convince somebody that Java is
easier to work with somehow? I'm asking because I can't say
that behind all that "I wrote tons of Java code that worked
the first time and never neede to use a debugger on it" there
is anything informative. And, to be honest with you, I am not
sure you're not exxagerrating. Are you?
[color=blue]
> If someone comes from PHP and HTML would you recommend Stroustrup to him?[/color]

Yes, I would. That's the book I used while learning C++ and
I still think that it's the best book on the subject. The
"Accelerate d C++" is a good alternative. It wasn't available
to me years ago, which may have created some bias.

It doesn't matter where they come from. What matters is whether
they are willing to learn or they just "went out to take a piss".
Casual attitude (characteristic to creation of 99% of all WWW
functionality in the form of applets, servlets, CGI programs,
etc.) will often get one nowhere in C++.

Victor

[mjm]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"Victor Bazarov"

I did not say I wrote tons of Java code that worked right away.
I said it happened occasionally.
It's never happened in C++.

Stroustrup is not concise enough.
How long did it take you to work through this?

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"mjm" <spyqqqdia@yaho o.com> wrote...[color=blue]
> [...]
> Stroustrup is not concise enough.[/color]

What's your example of 'concise'?
[color=blue]
> How long did it take you to work through this?[/color]

IIRC, about three months. It was a translation of the first
edition with some errors in examples, too. If I had to do
it in a foreign language and with a later edition, I may have
needed more time.

Considering that a decent C++ course should run two semesters,
I think that Stroustrup's Special Edition is the right book.
It doesn't have all answers, that's why it needs to be
complemented by, say, "The C++ Templates". The main advantage
of both books is that they can just as easily serve later as
references.

Victor

[mjm]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

Victor Barazov,

I am not exeggerating. I have used the debugger when I started out in
C++ on Code Warrior and not thereafter neither for Java nor for C++.

cerr << ...

was good enough till now.

[zer0rez]

Re: Should I learn C++ or Java now?

"Agent Mulder" <mbmulder_remov e_this_@home.nl > wrote in message news:<bf5uf2$pe 6$1@news4.tilbu 1.nb.home.nl>.. .[color=blue]
> Eljah> Are there any recommended books on Java or C++ (depending on which
> Eljah> language I should learn first) for the beginner who only know PHP and
> Eljah> BASIC?
> Eljah>
> Eljah> Sorry if this post some how offends somebody.
>
> Go to your local second hand bookstore and find the books
> on Java and C++. You'll probably find lots of both of them.
> Decide on the language by the documentation that you can get.
> It is not easy to recognize a good book but some general
> guidelines are:
>
> -good books are heavy books
> -good books have a good index
> -good books have a good Table of Contents at the start (except
> for Bjarne Stroustrup's C++ Programming Language, that has a
> lousy Table of Content. There is also something with the backside
> of it that I must always look twice to find it. But the weight will tell
> me I'm right)
>
> Some Java books have a CD-ROM in the back with a compiler and
> tools that you need to start programming. If you plan to jump in quickly
> with a high level object oriented language, I'd advice Java. With C++,
> you'll have to go through a lot of grunch. But it pays of.
>
> -X[/color]

Well im 15 and ive been attempting to learn C++ for years now. My
main reason for learning it was to make games. I know a lil bit about
java and for a while i was going to learn it. but anyway, i think u
should learn C++ (or maybe C) and then go to java.

-zer0rez