K&R Wishlist

**Keith Thompson** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

"newby2c" <servello@juno. com> writes:[color=blue]
> My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
>
> 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
> 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
> 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
> 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.[/color]

Umm, ok.
[color=blue]
> 5. A listing of C related web sites.[/color]

I don't think a hardcopy book is the best place for a list of web
sites. There's already a web page for the book.
[color=blue]
> 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
> 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.[/color]

That's not really C, but it has a chapter on Unix so I guess I
wouldn't mind.
[color=blue]
> 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]

Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
separate book seems like a good compromise.
[color=blue]
> 10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.[/color]

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

**Eric Sosman** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

newby2c wrote:
[color=blue]
> My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
>
> 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published!
> 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
> 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.
> 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.
> 5. A listing of C related web sites.
> 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.
> 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.
> 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.
> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).
> 10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.[/color]

Sounds wonderful. After Mr. K. and Mr. R. have done all
the work to produce this marvelous new thing, please tell me
where I can download it for free. In Urdu, if possible.

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@acm-dot-org.invalid

**Chris Hills** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

In article <1127961267.738 066.220060@g47g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
newby2c <servello@juno. com> writes[color=blue]
> My personal K&R (3rd edition) wish list:
>
> 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published![/color]
There are other books out there already.

When K&R did V 1 it was their language.

When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.

Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
be no more authoritative than many other books.
[color=blue]
> 2. Make any and all corrections from earlier editions.
> 3. Update to comply with the c99 Standard.[/color]
OK but there are no widely used compilers working to this.
[color=blue]
> 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.[/color]
Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
time and other go out of print all the time.
[color=blue]
> 5. A listing of C related web sites.[/color]
These change daily. As do their content and accuracy
[color=blue]
> 6. For ease of use, an appendix of tables used in the text.[/color]
OK
[color=blue]
> 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.[/color]

Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere "
[color=blue]
> 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.[/color]

That is already a separate book by some one else.
[color=blue]
> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.
[color=blue]
>10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.[/color]
"Everything " in half the size.

Don't want much do you?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

**newby2c** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

Keith Thompson wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
>
> Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
> exercises.[/color]

That's a good point.

newby2c

**newby2c** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

Chris Hills wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published![/color]
> There are other books out there already.[/color]

And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
published.
[color=blue]
> When K&R did V 1 it was their language.
>
> When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.
>
> Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
> be no more authoritative than many other books.[/color]

That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
done.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.[/color]
> Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
> time and other go out of print all the time.[/color]

This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
other texts within them.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 5. A listing of C related web sites.[/color]
> These change daily. As do their content and accuracy[/color]

Good point.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.[/color]
>
> Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere "[/color]

Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
naturally, be different.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.[/color]
>
> That is already a separate book by some one else.[/color]

Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
> No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.[/color]

Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
does), then there should be answers.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.[/color]
> "Everything " in half the size.
>
> Don't want much do you?[/color]

Again, this is *my* personal wishlist.

newby2c

**Chris Hills** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

In article <1128013787.245 005.110120@g49g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
newby2c <servello@juno. com> writes[color=blue]
>
>Chris Hills wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >
>> > 1. That a 3rd edition is actually published![/color]
>> There are other books out there already.[/color]
>
>And this is why a 3rd edition should not be published? According to
>your statement then, you think the 2nd edition should not have been
>published.[/color]

No. The second edition came out before the standard and was the first
book on C90. Now there are many books on C.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> When K&R did V 1 it was their language.
>>
>> When they did V2 they were major players in the panel that did it.
>>
>> Now C99 is produced by a world wide group of panels... so a K&R3 would
>> be no more authoritative than many other books.[/color]
>
>That may be true, but I still don't see why a 3rd edition could not be
>done.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 4. A reference to other C books to aid the programmer.[/color]
>> Here is the competition, buy these? Besides new books come put all the
>> time and other go out of print all the time.[/color]
>
>This is a joke, right? 99.9% of the books I own, have references to
>other texts within them.[/color]

Not a joke. The references are just that. Reference the text make to
other books. Usually to a specific edition and page. It is not a list of
"other books".

All books have references to other material they cite. If they don't
reference other works directly then they don't list them.

What are you asking for? lists of other books on c that are not
specifically referenced in the text? Then my point stands.

[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 5. A listing of C related web sites.[/color]
>> These change daily. As do their content and accuracy[/color]
>
>Good point.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 7. Make an appendix with the full ascii table.[/color]
>>
>> Why? A waste of paper. This is available "everywhere "[/color]
>
>Yes. However, it would be nice if the information needed could be found
>in one source. Remember, this is *my* wishlist. Yours would, quite
>naturally, be different.[/color]

OK.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 8. Make an appendix that includes a C Programming FAQ.[/color]
>>
>> That is already a separate book by some one else.[/color]
>
>Again, it would be nice to have the info in *one* text.[/color]

Then you want two books in one volume?

[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
>> No thanks. It is a reference book No questions let alone answers.[/color]
>
>Ok, that's a personal preference. But if a book has questions (like K&R
>does), then there should be answers.[/color]

Agreed.
Though I prefer not questions at all.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >10. Even with the additions proposed, BREVITY must be maintained.[/color]
>> "Everything " in half the size.
>>
>> Don't want much do you?[/color]
>
>Again, this is *my* personal wishlist.
>
>newby2c
>[/color]

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

**Stan Milam** · Nov 15 '05, 03:34 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

Keith Thompson wrote:[color=blue]
> "newby2c" <servello@juno. com> writes:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
>
>
> Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
> exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
> separate book seems like a good compromise.
>[/color]

The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
to solve!

**Randy Howard** · Nov 15 '05, 03:55 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

Stan Milam wrote
(in article <ox2%e.1478$Y_5 .678@newssvr11. news.prodigy.co m>):
[color=blue]
> Keith Thompson wrote:[color=green]
>> "newby2c" <servello@juno. com> writes:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> 9. Appendix of answers to questions (ala Tondo & Gimple).[/color]
>>
>>
>> Then instructors couldn't assign questions from the book as class
>> exercises. I've seen a "C Answer Book"; putting the anwers in a
>> separate book seems like a good compromise.
>>[/color]
>
> The instructors should come up with their own damn problems for students
> to solve![/color]

We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
just stop bothering altogether.

--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)

**Mabden** · Nov 15 '05, 03:57 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

"Randy Howard" <randyhoward@FO OverizonBAR.net > wrote in message
news:0001HW.BF6 3703E02B817C3F0 488550@news.ver izon.net...[color=blue]
>
> We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when instructors
> make up their own questions. They get posted here, then railed
> on for being completely in violation of the holy C standard.
> Given the quality of what is being taught today, they should
> just stop bothering altogether.
>[/color]
"They should just stop bothering."

Perhaps we need to create a fund to pay people who can teach, the money
it is worth to do it. I would call it "taxes", but that has already been
taken.

Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
Linguistics" at a local Community College.

--
Mabden

**Keith Thompson** · Nov 15 '05, 03:57 AM

Re: K&R Wishlist

"Mabden" <mabden@sbc_glo bal.net> writes:
[...][color=blue]
> Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
> topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead Sea
> Linguistics" at a local Community College.[/color]

Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
your "humor". Followups redirected.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

**Mabden** · Nov 15 '05, 03:57 AM

KeithT is Trolling me.

"Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
news:lnwtkvfx8r .fsf@nuthaus.mi b.org...[color=blue]
> "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_glo bal.net> writes:
> [...][color=green]
> > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
> > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead[/color][/color]
Sea[color=blue][color=green]
> > Linguistics" at a local Community College.[/color]
>
> Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
> your "humor".[/color]
[color=blue]
> Followups redirected.[/color]
coward. Denigratenator. And such.

Keith,

I respect you are a very knowledgeable person who knows more about C
minutia than me. I study C and your input and converse is part of why I
consider myself expert (yes, I really do...). However, your opinions
change my coding style and content for the better.

You need to realize that you are responding to my posts with negative
comments. You are the mostly the FIRST poster. Why can you not just wait
a day or three, and let others post first. I am not writing personal
messages to you on the newsgroup. It's OK to ignore ones you don't like.
Let some others post before you chime in and "poison the well" with your
negative comments, please.

Here are the comments you make on my posts. Note that there is less
content than my post:
=====
"Please consider increasing your signal-to-noise ratio."
"Let us know when you have something useful to add to the discussion."
"No."
"I see you've been posting a lot today. Unless I've missed something,
you have said *nothing* topical. A little joking around is ok, but
could you *try* to talk about C? Maybe you could start by shooting for
a 50% topicality ratio"
"Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
your "humor"." (note: it was not you or your name that was used, but
someone else. In fact I doubt your father was even named Thomp!)
=====
Keith, I don't drag you in - you butted in! This forum is just a Q & A
session amongst friends. Stop trying to control the content of
professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.

Please stop harassing me with negative comments.

Any comments about mistakes are VERY welcome; I value your input. I care
NOT about your criticism about whether my post is "funny", "amusing",
"on [or off] topic", or any other negative comment. I get it! You don't
like some of my posts.

Here's a chart to spell it out:

A. Don't read them
B. Shut up!
C. Have I been WRONG??? Am I putting out bad info????
D. Are you NUTS?
e. There is no e.
F. Fuck You - it's the Internet! Stop following me!
G. Get a Life
H. + double hockey sticks. The place I will see you in after you die
I. The REAL problem here! - hey wait!
J. Joke implies a sense humor which you don't seem to posssesss (how do
you spell that anyways?)
K. Killfile (but really, please don't - I respect your opinion when you
aren't menstruating)
L. Lame posts.
M. ME. I look for info to help ME. Homework does not help ME.
N. Newbies don't interest ME. See above.
O. Oh, you got this far? Well, then you got to the end.

--
Mabden

**Nick Keighley** · Nov 15 '05, 03:57 AM

Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

Mabden wrote:[color=blue]
> "Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
> news:lnwtkvfx8r .fsf@nuthaus.mi b.org...[color=green]
> > "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_glo bal.net> writes:[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
> > > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead
> > > Sea Linguistics" at a local Community College.[/color]
> >
> > Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
> > your "humor".[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Followups redirected.[/color]
> coward. Denigratenator. And such.[/color]

isn't this getting a tad personal?

<snip rant>
[color=blue]
> This forum is just a Q & A session amongst friends.[/color]

where is it written that we have to be friends?

[color=blue]
> Stop trying to control the content of
> professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework questions
> from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
> yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are too
> sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.[/color]

this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
roar. We are not all American.

<snip>

PLONK!

--
Nick Keighley

**Mabden** · Nov 15 '05, 03:58 AM

I nicked an asshole

"Nick Keighley" <nick_keighley_ nospam@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:1128336649 .170897.74310@g 47g2000cwa.goog legroups.com...[color=blue]
> Mabden wrote:[color=green]
> > "Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
> > news:lnwtkvfx8r .fsf@nuthaus.mi b.org...[color=darkred]
> > > "Mabden" <mabden@sbc_glo bal.net> writes:[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing[/color][/color][/color]
humor (a[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on[/color][/color][/color]
"Dead[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > Sea Linguistics" at a local Community College.
> > >
> > > Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name[/color][/color][/color]
into[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > your "humor".[/color]
> >[color=darkred]
> > > Followups redirected.[/color]
> > coward. Denigratenator. And such.[/color]
>
> isn't this getting a tad personal?[/color]

Well, I think that's my point. Every time (almost - don't invoke the KT
corrector) I post a comment, I get a KT comment.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > This forum is just a Q & A session amongst friends.[/color]
>
> where is it written that we have to be friends?[/color]

Hey, great way to miss the point! Good one! You're really helping...
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > Stop trying to control the content of
> > professional C programmers, while promoting answering homework[/color][/color]
questions[color=blue][color=green]
> > from Outsource countries. Some of us are in dire straits and you are
> > yelling about humor while helping someone else steal my job! You are[/color][/color]
too[color=blue][color=green]
> > sensitive, and too controlling. You are wrong and you are anal.[/color]
>
> this is a technical forum, pleasde try to keep the politics to a dull
> roar. We are not all American.[/color]

Fuck off - I am not American!

OH!!! Only Americans are losing jobs to outsourcing! You don't by any
chance run WindowsErie or Fenettre or WindowsChocolat e do you???!

You have never in [country you exist in] dialed a telephone?!!

I am NOT American, asshole! I mean, I am not an American asshole! Well,
I might be an asshole, but I'm not American!!! But, well, you figure it
out, Dicknose.
[color=blue]
>
> PLONK!
>[/color]

Sorry, your plonk is restricted to USA DNS ISP CIA ISM.
[color=blue]
>
> --
> Nick Keighley
>[/color]

I nicked a keighley once, but it weren't worth shit.

**Michael Mair** · Nov 15 '05, 03:58 AM

Re: KeithT is Trolling me.

Mabden wrote:[color=blue]
> "Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
> news:lnwtkvfx8r .fsf@nuthaus.mi b.org...
>[color=green]
>>"Mabden" <mabden@sbc_glo bal.net> writes:
>>[...]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Maybe Keith, Thomp's son, could spend less time criticizing humor (a
>>>topic he is less than apt at) and teach a college course on "Dead[/color][/color]
>
> Sea
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Linguistic s" at a local Community College.[/color]
>>
>>Maybe you could leave me alone. At least stop dragging my name into
>>your "humor".[/color]
>[color=green]
>>Followups redirected.[/color]
>[/color]
<snip: Insults interspersed with pseudo-objective drivel>

You have more than once stated that you want to annoy people into
whatever. Now that Keith seems to get under your skin, you seem
to have a problem with that.
Maybe, if you stopped to try to be funny and if Keith turned down
his level of what you seem to perceive as his policing you, then
you could coexist and both enjoy the exchange round here.

Otherwise, I look at the usefulness of the respective messages.
The stats are IMO against you, Mabden.

Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.

K&R Wishlist

K&R Wishlist

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