K&R3?

[Ralph A. Moeritz]

Hello,

does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...

Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?

Regards,
Ralph

[Chris McDonald]

Re: K&R3?

"Ralph A. Moeritz" <ralphm@sie.co. za> writes:
[color=blue]
>does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
>to feel a little dusty...[/color]
[color=blue]
>Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]


(sorry, just adding to your questions)
Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
new features? Thanks,

_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ___
Dr Chris McDonald E: chris@csse.uwa. edu.au
Computer Science & Software Engineering W: http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~chris
The University of Western Australia, M002 T: +618 6488 2533
Crawley, Western Australia, 6009 F: +618 6488 1089

[Grumble]

Re: K&amp;R3?

Ralph A. Moeritz wrote:
[color=blue]
> does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
> to feel a little dusty...
>
> Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]

I think "C: A Reference Manual" has a good reputation around here.

http://www.careferencemanual.com/

[tigervamp]

Re: K&amp;R3?


Chris McDonald wrote:[color=blue]
> "Ralph A. Moeritz" <ralphm@sie.co. za> writes:
>[color=green]
> >does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
> >to feel a little dusty...[/color][/color]

Last I heard (around 2000), they had not decided whether to write a
third edition but had no plans to do so. If anyone has heard anything
more recently, please share.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]
>
> (sorry, just adding to your questions)
> Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
> specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
> new features? Thanks,[/color]

C: A Reference Manual 5th edition is highly recommended, it is more of
a reference than a textbook but everything is well-covered and
thoroughly explained with examples and details. It covers C99, C89,
and traditional C.

C Programming: A Modern Approach is a highly regarded textbook, the
second edition will cover C99 and is due out any time now. The first
edition covers C89.
[color=blue]
>[/color]
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ___
[color=blue]
> Dr Chris McDonald E: chris@csse.uwa. edu.au
> Computer Science & Software Engineering W:[/color]
http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~chris[color=blue]
> The University of Western Australia, M002 T: +618 6488 2533
> Crawley, Western Australia, 6009 F: +618 6488 1089[/color]

Rob Gamble

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: K&amp;R3?

On 30 Mar 2005 00:24:47 -0800, in comp.lang.c , "Ralph A. Moeritz"
<ralphm@sie.co. za> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hello,
>
>does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
>to feel a little dusty...[/color]

Never, according to what i believe one of the authors has posted.
[color=blue]
>Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]

I believe the ACCU website lists a few, as do the FAQ and Welcome
message for this group.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt >

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[Default User]

Re: K&amp;R3?

Mark McIntyre wrote:
[color=blue]
> On 30 Mar 2005 00:24:47 -0800, in comp.lang.c , "Ralph A. Moeritz"
> <ralphm@sie.co. za> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Hello,
> >
> > does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
> > to feel a little dusty...[/color]
>
> Never, according to what i believe one of the authors has posted.
>[color=green]
> > Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]
>
> I believe the ACCU website lists a few, as do the FAQ and Welcome
> message for this group.[/color]

I really don't have much to add, but I'm checking the distribution of
our company news server. It's been feeling poorly for quite some time.



Brian
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robertnielsen@c fu.net wrote:
[color=blue]
> i am new to c++ and am practicing programs. i am trying to write a
> program that a user enters a sequence of numbers and the program will
> pick out the lowest and highest numbers in the bunch. i will enter
> -99 to exit the loop. any one help?[/color]

What have you done so far?

This is not a homework service.



Brian
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Mike Williams wrote:

[color=blue]
> Some Japanese tourists visit Australia on package tours, staying in
> Japanese owned hotels, touring in Japanese owned buses and then
> shopping in Japanese stores (where once Australians were forbidden to
> shop) so they could buy fluffy koalas, kangaroos and such that were
> "Made in Japan".[/color]


I bet that would be appealing to many Mericans when traveling the nasty
foreign spots.



Brian
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Peter B. Steiger wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:46:37 +0000, Cindy Kandolf sez:[color=green]
> > Dunno. But to get an idea of some of the cr@p people really do
> > dream up, try http://www.etiquettehell.com/ - under "Everyday
> > Etiquette" there's a section about Baby Showers. I saw several
> > baby shower as fund raiser stories on the first page. I'd look for
> > evidence of actual baby-holding auctions, but the background is bad
> > on my eyes at the best of times and is just about giving me a
> > headache tonight. Which is a pity, because it's a funny site,
> > really.[/color]
>
> Holy mother of Martha Stewart, this is an awful site... just knowing
> there are people in the world like that scares me. I guess FBOFW
> wasn't so unrealistically over-the-top after all![/color]

I read Miss Manners when I see the column in the paper. It's so
prevelant it's not even funny these days.




Brian

[Chris Hills]

Re: K&amp;R3?

In article <d2do17$5fa$1@e nyo.uwa.edu.au> , Chris McDonald
<chris@csse.uwa .edu.au> writes[color=blue]
>"Ralph A. Moeritz" <ralphm@sie.co. za> writes:
>[color=green]
>>does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
>>to feel a little dusty...[/color]
>[color=green]
>>Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?[/color]
>
>
>(sorry, just adding to your questions)
>Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
>specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
>new features? Thanks,
>[/color]

This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.

In any event a new substantial TC for C99 has just been issued.

Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
into a C05 later this year.



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Fao, Sean]

Re: K&amp;R3?

Chris Hills wrote:
[color=blue]
> This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
> compilers out there.[/color]

Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?

<ot_ramble>
For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
about.
</ot_ramble>

--
Sean

[Chris Hills]

Re: K&amp;R3?

In article <h9z4e.15$2J5.5 20@news.abs.net >, Fao, Sean
<enceladus311@y ahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> writes[color=blue]
>Chris Hills wrote:
>[color=green]
>> This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
>> compilers out there.[/color]
>
>Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
>C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?[/color]

No.
Besides there are other books that cover C99.

In any event it will be C05 soon AFAIK

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: K&amp;R3?

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
<chris@phaedsys .org> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
>into a C05 later this year.[/color]

I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt >

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[lawrence.jones@ugs.com]

Re: K&amp;R3?

Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@s pamcop.net> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
> <chris@phaedsys .org> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
>>into a C05 later this year.[/color]
>
> I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
> that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.[/color]

C05 (if there is one) will just be C99 as revised by TC1 and TC2, so
those statements are not contradictory.

-Larry Jones

Let's pretend I already feel terrible about it, and that you
don't need to rub it in any more. -- Calvin

[Chris Hills]

Re: K&amp;R3?

In article <ft06519osq5bot 1vquns8lc38lns2 co4j8@4ax.com>, Mark McIntyre
<markmcintyre@s pamcop.net> writes[color=blue]
>On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
><chris@phaedsy s.org> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
>>into a C05 later this year.[/color]
>
>I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
>that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.[/color]

That is not what I saw on the committee reflector. There was an intend
to role TC1 and TC2 into the standard to give C05

However that would be it until 2012

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Chris Croughton]

Re: K&amp;R3?

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:37:32 -0400, Fao, Sean
<enceladus311@y ahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Chris Hills wrote:
>[color=green]
>> This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
>> compilers out there.[/color]
>
> Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
> C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?
>
> <ot_ramble>
> For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
> I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
> here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
> satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
> nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
> least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
> about.
> </ot_ramble>[/color]

The problem is that not only the compiler but the library as well needs
to be compliant, and that's where I've found deficiencies (notably in
printf() not supporting the newer numeric sizes like maxint_t and
size_t, and in newer math.h functions being missing). Some of those,
like the math.h functions, are impossible to replace in a portable way
(the nan() functions, for example, depend on knowing the representations
of floating point on your machine).

I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need (I don't need VLAs,
for instance, which is one area I know it has trouble), but it relies on
the system's library in most cases and that is too variable to be
depended on.

(Yes, there is the Dinkumware library, but in the Real World(tm) people
who write software for organisations aren't always in a position to say
"you must buy this library" and many organisations won't allow 3rd-party
libraries anyway.)

Not that I think a K&R3 would be at all a bad thing, I think it could
only help, I just don't think that on its own it will cause a massed
rush to C99 (indeed, if new programmers read it and then find that their
compiler doesn't support the features they are more likely to give up).

Chris C

[Chris Hills]

Re: K&amp;R3?

In article <slrndc64sv.5gm .chris@ccserver .keris.net>, Chris Croughton
<chris@keristor .net> writes[color=blue]
>On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:37:32 -0400, Fao, Sean
> <enceladus311@y ahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Chris Hills wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
>>> compilers out there.[/color]
>>
>> Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
>> C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?[/color][/color]

Not in the slightest.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> <ot_ramble>
>> For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
>> I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
>> here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
>> satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
>> nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
>> least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
>> about.
>> </ot_ramble>[/color]
>
>The problem is that not only the compiler but the library as well needs
>to be compliant, and that's where I've found deficiencies (notably in
>printf() not supporting the newer numeric sizes like maxint_t and
>size_t, and in newer math.h functions being missing). Some of those,
>like the math.h functions, are impossible to replace in a portable way
>(the nan() functions, for example, depend on knowing the representations
>of floating point on your machine).
>
>I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need[/color]

so it's not C99 compliant then?
[color=blue]
>(I don't need VLAs,
>for instance, which is one area I know it has trouble), but it relies on
>the system's library in most cases and that is too variable to be
>depended on.
>
>(Yes, there is the Dinkumware library, but in the Real World(tm) people
>who write software for organisations aren't always in a position to say
>"you must buy this library" and many organisations won't allow 3rd-party
>libraries anyway.)[/color]

Also it may not be suitable for the target.
[color=blue]
>Not that I think a K&R3 would be at all a bad thing, I think it could
>only help, I just don't think that on its own it will cause a massed
>rush to C99 (indeed, if new programmers read it and then find that their
>compiler doesn't support the features they are more likely to give up).[/color]

Very true. OTOH if the community of developers wanted C99 I am sure that
the writers would provide it.

There appears to be no commercial (or Engineering) requirement to do
C99. Or rather move from C90 (+A1 etc)

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Keith Thompson]

Re: K&amp;R3?

Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys .org> writes:[color=blue]
> In article <slrndc64sv.5gm .chris@ccserver .keris.net>, Chris Croughton[/color]
[...][color=blue][color=green]
>>I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need[/color]
>
> so it's not C99 compliant then?[/color]

No, it's not. I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.